New gun study

[C_Clayton_Jones]

“Guns Don t Deter Crime Study Finds”

Correct, and anyone who 'argues' otherwise is an ignorant fool.

It's also ignorant and foolish to 'argue' that this somehow 'validates' gun control measures – it doesn't.

Citizens are not required to 'justify' the exercising of a fundamental Constitutional right as a 'prerequisite' to indeed do so.

The fact that guns do little to deter crime in no way 'undermines' or 'mitigates' the rights enshrined in the Second Amendment.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Do the extra guns cause the extra crime, or do law abiding citizens own more guns because they live in areas with high crime?

You could look at Chicago during the period when legal gun ownership was outlawed.
Did the anti-gun legislation reduce gun crime or non-gun crime. Not so much.

They found that gun ownership increased before crime. I think this study does more to show more guns does not equal less crime, than more guns equals more crime.

Pinpointing causation

The results do need to be interpreted with caution — this study method proves that more guns are linked to more gun crime and overall homicide, but not that access to guns directly causes this criminal uptick, said study researcher David Hemenway, the director of the Harvard Injury Control Research Center.

"This study suggests that it's really hard to find evidence that where there are more guns, there are less crimes, but you can easily find evidence that where there are a lot more guns, there are a lot more gun crimes," Hemenway told Live Science.

It's possible that people stockpile guns in response to higher levels of crime. The researchers tried to tease out whether this was the case by testing whether gun ownership levels were a prerequisite for crime or a response to higher crime levels. Though they still couldn't prove causation, they did find that higher gun ownership levels preceded crime increases, not the other way around.

"It's difficult to imagine how the hypothesis that increased ownership reduces criminal behavior could be valid, given our findings," Monuteaux said.

Except they intentionally restricted the crime parameters. Not all violent crime...just the small subset that gives them the result they wanted.

How do I know?

Because there are many more guns, and much fewer violent crimes across the board.

And when we look at the smallest gun ownership per capita states:

And then look at the Homicide Rate:

​

And then compare to Homicide By Firearm:

​

You see that states like Maryland, California and Illinois have low firearm ownership rates and higher murder rates and higher murder rates by firearms...whereas West Virginia, North Dakota and Montana have very high firearm ownership and low murder rates with even lower murder rates by firearms.

Pretty much blows the whole "by state" statistical model to smithereens.

But what we do know without doubt is Gun Ownership is on the increase, and Violent Crime is on the decrease nationwide.

As conceal carry increased, and the population increased by 50 million people, all violent crime decreased...and in many categories the decrease has been almost 50%.

The graph won't fit the page...here is a thumbnail
of the FBI Graph:

View attachment 44043 ​

Increased Conceal Carry:

​

These too are correlations...but pretty darned convincing correlations that More Guns = Less Crime.

Crime has been trending down since long before concealed carry started trending up.

Even now carry holders are less than 4% of the population. You can't seriously be claiming that tiny number of carriers is responsible for crime going down. Are you aware that since WI and Chicago got concealed carry the violent crime rates have gone up? I don't think it's the cause mind you, but its proof more guns doesn't equal less crime.

Which goes to the fact that the Second Amendment right has nothing to do with 'crime,' or the deterrence thereof.

The Second Amendment recognizes the right of individuals to possess a firearm pursuant to the right of self-defense, unrelated to militia service and having nothing to do with crime rates or whether or not guns reduce crime.

 

[Brain357]

Finds that more guns does not lead to less crime...

They found no evidence that states with more households with guns led to timid criminals. In fact, firearm assaults were 6.8 times more common in states with the most guns versus states with the least. Firearm robbery increased with every increase in gun ownership except in the very highest quintile of gun-owning states (the difference in that cluster was not statistically significant). Firearm homicide was 2.8 times more common in states with the most guns versus states with the least.

The researchers were able to test whether criminals were simply trading out other weapons for guns, at least in the case of homicide. They weren't. Overall homicide rates were just over 2 times higher in the most gun-owning states, meaning that gun ownership correlated with higher rates of all homicides, not just homicide with a gun. The results will be published in a forthcoming issue of the American Journal of Preventive Medicine.



Guns Don t Deter Crime Study Finds

Brain...I knew it...that hack hemenway did the study....he is a known liar and a fraud, an anti gun extremist....this study is crap from the get go.....

No he isn't. Only you gun nuts think that. All of what you say is true for Lott however.

 

[Brain357]

Brain is about to tell you the Cato institute can't be trusted...whereas the known hack, david hemenway who was part of brains study has been shown to create stats by using fake data......what a hack....

That's why I don't get into the studies like you guys do...I look at the data.

No one can argue that there aren't more guns.

If more guns actually equaled more crime...violent crime would be going up.

But instead, violent crime is declining and has been declining, even as the population is growing.

It's indisputable.

You guys are off track. This study says more guns don't lower crime. It does not say more guns increase crime. I don't see how it can be questioned when we have by far the most guns, yet not the lowest crime rates. And keep in mind while there are more guns, ownership is not at its highest rates and may be declining.

 

[Brain357]

Except they intentionally restricted the crime parameters. Not all violent crime...just the small subset that gives them the result they wanted.

How do I know?

Because there are many more guns, and much fewer violent crimes across the board.

And when we look at the smallest gun ownership per capita states:

And then look at the Homicide Rate:

​

And then compare to Homicide By Firearm:

​

You see that states like Maryland, California and Illinois have low firearm ownership rates and higher murder rates and higher murder rates by firearms...whereas West Virginia, North Dakota and Montana have very high firearm ownership and low murder rates with even lower murder rates by firearms.

Pretty much blows the whole "by state" statistical model to smithereens.

But what we do know without doubt is Gun Ownership is on the increase, and Violent Crime is on the decrease nationwide.

As conceal carry increased, and the population increased by 50 million people, all violent crime decreased...and in many categories the decrease has been almost 50%.

The graph won't fit the page...here is a thumbnail
of the FBI Graph:

View attachment 44043 ​

Increased Conceal Carry:

​

These too are correlations...but pretty darned convincing correlations that More Guns = Less Crime.

Crime has been trending down since long before concealed carry started trending up.

Even now carry holders are less than 4% of the population. You can't seriously be claiming that tiny number of carriers is responsible for crime going down. Are you aware that since WI and Chicago got concealed carry the violent crime rates have gone up? I don't think it's the cause mind you, but its proof more guns doesn't equal less crime.

The authors also said concealed carry policies on college campuses lead to a reduction in crime, using two Colorado schools as test cases. After the state enacted its concealed carry law in 2003, Colorado State University decided to allow students to carry concealed weapons while the University of Colorado prohibited them. The report found a 60 percent decrease in crime at Colorado State since 2004, while the University of Colorado saw a 35 percent increase during the same time period.

“(It does not) seem likely that a would-be robber would be deterred because of stickers on the doors announcing that armed robbery is severely frowned upon by the student code of conduct,” the report said. “Conversely, a campus that allows concealed carry, and where even one student, professor, or even a member of the maintenance staff is armed, would present a much riskier target to criminals.”

Marquette Wire Concealed carry prevents more crime than it creates study says
​

Link to the study...I'm still reading it.

Tough Targets When Criminals Face Armed Resistance from Citizens Cato Institute​

Brain is about to tell you the Cato institute can't be trusted...whereas the known hack, david hemenway who was part of brains study has been shown to create stats by using fake data......what a hack....

Cato are obviously pro gun hacks. I have debunked them many times, they can't be taken seriously.

 

[2aguy]

Crime has been trending down since long before concealed carry started trending up.

Even now carry holders are less than 4% of the population. You can't seriously be claiming that tiny number of carriers is responsible for crime going down. Are you aware that since WI and Chicago got concealed carry the violent crime rates have gone up? I don't think it's the cause mind you, but its proof more guns doesn't equal less crime.

The authors also said concealed carry policies on college campuses lead to a reduction in crime, using two Colorado schools as test cases. After the state enacted its concealed carry law in 2003, Colorado State University decided to allow students to carry concealed weapons while the University of Colorado prohibited them. The report found a 60 percent decrease in crime at Colorado State since 2004, while the University of Colorado saw a 35 percent increase during the same time period.

“(It does not) seem likely that a would-be robber would be deterred because of stickers on the doors announcing that armed robbery is severely frowned upon by the student code of conduct,” the report said. “Conversely, a campus that allows concealed carry, and where even one student, professor, or even a member of the maintenance staff is armed, would present a much riskier target to criminals.”

Marquette Wire Concealed carry prevents more crime than it creates study says
​

Link to the study...I'm still reading it.

Tough Targets When Criminals Face Armed Resistance from Citizens Cato Institute​

Brain is about to tell you the Cato institute can't be trusted...whereas the known hack, david hemenway who was part of brains study has been shown to create stats by using fake data......what a hack....

Cato are obviously pro gun hacks. I have debunked them many times, they can't be taken seriously.

Brain....pointing your finger at Cato and yelling "I Debunk Thee!!!!!" Is not debunking them.

 

[2aguy]

Brain is about to tell you the Cato institute can't be trusted...whereas the known hack, david hemenway who was part of brains study has been shown to create stats by using fake data......what a hack....

That's why I don't get into the studies like you guys do...I look at the data.

No one can argue that there aren't more guns.

If more guns actually equaled more crime...violent crime would be going up.

But instead, violent crime is declining and has been declining, even as the population is growing.

It's indisputable.

You guys are off track. This study says more guns don't lower crime. It does not say more guns increase crime. I don't see how it can be questioned when we have by far the most guns, yet not the lowest crime rates. And keep in mind while there are more guns, ownership is not at its highest rates and may be declining.

And there are countries with absolute gun control with higher gun murder rates than we have.....

And no...gun ownership has gone up....reporting gun ownership has gone down......

 

[Brain357]

Even now carry holders are less than 4% of the population. You can't seriously be claiming that tiny number of carriers is responsible for crime going down. Are you aware that since WI and Chicago got concealed carry the violent crime rates have gone up? I don't think it's the cause mind you, but its proof more guns doesn't equal less crime.

The authors also said concealed carry policies on college campuses lead to a reduction in crime, using two Colorado schools as test cases. After the state enacted its concealed carry law in 2003, Colorado State University decided to allow students to carry concealed weapons while the University of Colorado prohibited them. The report found a 60 percent decrease in crime at Colorado State since 2004, while the University of Colorado saw a 35 percent increase during the same time period.

“(It does not) seem likely that a would-be robber would be deterred because of stickers on the doors announcing that armed robbery is severely frowned upon by the student code of conduct,” the report said. “Conversely, a campus that allows concealed carry, and where even one student, professor, or even a member of the maintenance staff is armed, would present a much riskier target to criminals.”

Marquette Wire Concealed carry prevents more crime than it creates study says
​

Link to the study...I'm still reading it.

Tough Targets When Criminals Face Armed Resistance from Citizens Cato Institute​

Brain is about to tell you the Cato institute can't be trusted...whereas the known hack, david hemenway who was part of brains study has been shown to create stats by using fake data......what a hack....

Cato are obviously pro gun hacks. I have debunked them many times, they can't be taken seriously.

Brain....pointing your finger at Cato and yelling "I Debunk Thee!!!!!" Is not debunking them.

I have gone into detail many times with you about how ridiculous they are. They don't seek the truth. They seek ways to push the gun lobby.

 

[Brain357]

Brain is about to tell you the Cato institute can't be trusted...whereas the known hack, david hemenway who was part of brains study has been shown to create stats by using fake data......what a hack....

That's why I don't get into the studies like you guys do...I look at the data.

No one can argue that there aren't more guns.

If more guns actually equaled more crime...violent crime would be going up.

But instead, violent crime is declining and has been declining, even as the population is growing.

It's indisputable.

You guys are off track. This study says more guns don't lower crime. It does not say more guns increase crime. I don't see how it can be questioned when we have by far the most guns, yet not the lowest crime rates. And keep in mind while there are more guns, ownership is not at its highest rates and may be declining.

And there are countries with absolute gun control with higher gun murder rates than we have.....

And no...gun ownership has gone up....reporting gun ownership has gone down......

Yes I don't think ownership effects crime rates.

Sure you are back in fantasyland again. Ownership is up, but the gun range industry is down. All the facts point to it being down.

 

[2aguy]

Even now carry holders are less than 4% of the population. You can't seriously be claiming that tiny number of carriers is responsible for crime going down. Are you aware that since WI and Chicago got concealed carry the violent crime rates have gone up? I don't think it's the cause mind you, but its proof more guns doesn't equal less crime.

The authors also said concealed carry policies on college campuses lead to a reduction in crime, using two Colorado schools as test cases. After the state enacted its concealed carry law in 2003, Colorado State University decided to allow students to carry concealed weapons while the University of Colorado prohibited them. The report found a 60 percent decrease in crime at Colorado State since 2004, while the University of Colorado saw a 35 percent increase during the same time period.

“(It does not) seem likely that a would-be robber would be deterred because of stickers on the doors announcing that armed robbery is severely frowned upon by the student code of conduct,” the report said. “Conversely, a campus that allows concealed carry, and where even one student, professor, or even a member of the maintenance staff is armed, would present a much riskier target to criminals.”

Marquette Wire Concealed carry prevents more crime than it creates study says
​

Link to the study...I'm still reading it.

Tough Targets When Criminals Face Armed Resistance from Citizens Cato Institute​

Brain is about to tell you the Cato institute can't be trusted...whereas the known hack, david hemenway who was part of brains study has been shown to create stats by using fake data......what a hack....

Cato are obviously pro gun hacks. I have debunked them many times, they can't be taken seriously.

Brain....pointing your finger at Cato and yelling "I Debunk Thee!!!!!" Is not debunking them.

I have gone into detail many times with you about how ridiculous they are. They don't seek the truth. They seek ways to push the gun lobby.

You should re read their study...well..all the studies, then look at the FBI and CDC numbers which show that gun murder rates are declining as well as gun accident rates as well as gun accidental death rates....all as more than 11.1 million people own and carry guns for self defense, with over 90 million homes with guns in them.

If you want to cut down on gun violence even more.....arrest criminals...then you can leave law abiding gun owners alone....

 

[2aguy]

Brain is about to tell you the Cato institute can't be trusted...whereas the known hack, david hemenway who was part of brains study has been shown to create stats by using fake data......what a hack....

That's why I don't get into the studies like you guys do...I look at the data.

No one can argue that there aren't more guns.

If more guns actually equaled more crime...violent crime would be going up.

But instead, violent crime is declining and has been declining, even as the population is growing.

It's indisputable.

You guys are off track. This study says more guns don't lower crime. It does not say more guns increase crime. I don't see how it can be questioned when we have by far the most guns, yet not the lowest crime rates. And keep in mind while there are more guns, ownership is not at its highest rates and may be declining.

And there are countries with absolute gun control with higher gun murder rates than we have.....

And no...gun ownership has gone up....reporting gun ownership has gone down......

Yes I don't think ownership effects crime rates.

Sure you are back in fantasyland again. Ownership is up, but the gun range industry is down. All the facts point to it being down.

Sorry....you can't show that.....and the fact that there are many gun ranges that can't get a licesne to open because of gun grabbers preventing them from opening shows how unreliable your point is.....

 

[Brain357]

The authors also said concealed carry policies on college campuses lead to a reduction in crime, using two Colorado schools as test cases. After the state enacted its concealed carry law in 2003, Colorado State University decided to allow students to carry concealed weapons while the University of Colorado prohibited them. The report found a 60 percent decrease in crime at Colorado State since 2004, while the University of Colorado saw a 35 percent increase during the same time period.

“(It does not) seem likely that a would-be robber would be deterred because of stickers on the doors announcing that armed robbery is severely frowned upon by the student code of conduct,” the report said. “Conversely, a campus that allows concealed carry, and where even one student, professor, or even a member of the maintenance staff is armed, would present a much riskier target to criminals.”

Marquette Wire Concealed carry prevents more crime than it creates study says
​

Link to the study...I'm still reading it.

Tough Targets When Criminals Face Armed Resistance from Citizens Cato Institute​

Brain is about to tell you the Cato institute can't be trusted...whereas the known hack, david hemenway who was part of brains study has been shown to create stats by using fake data......what a hack....

Cato are obviously pro gun hacks. I have debunked them many times, they can't be taken seriously.

Brain....pointing your finger at Cato and yelling "I Debunk Thee!!!!!" Is not debunking them.

I have gone into detail many times with you about how ridiculous they are. They don't seek the truth. They seek ways to push the gun lobby.

You should re read their study...well..all the studies, then look at the FBI and CDC numbers which show that gun murder rates are declining as well as gun accident rates as well as gun accidental death rates....all as more than 11.1 million people own and carry guns for self defense, with over 90 million homes with guns in them.

If you want to cut down on gun violence even more.....arrest criminals...then you can leave law abiding gun owners alone....

If more guns equals less crime we would have the least crime in the world since we have by far the most guns. Gun ownership does not effect crime rates.

 

[Brain357]

Brain is about to tell you the Cato institute can't be trusted...whereas the known hack, david hemenway who was part of brains study has been shown to create stats by using fake data......what a hack....

That's why I don't get into the studies like you guys do...I look at the data.

No one can argue that there aren't more guns.

If more guns actually equaled more crime...violent crime would be going up.

But instead, violent crime is declining and has been declining, even as the population is growing.

It's indisputable.

You guys are off track. This study says more guns don't lower crime. It does not say more guns increase crime. I don't see how it can be questioned when we have by far the most guns, yet not the lowest crime rates. And keep in mind while there are more guns, ownership is not at its highest rates and may be declining.

And there are countries with absolute gun control with higher gun murder rates than we have.....

And no...gun ownership has gone up....reporting gun ownership has gone down......

Yes I don't think ownership effects crime rates.

Sure you are back in fantasyland again. Ownership is up, but the gun range industry is down. All the facts point to it being down.

Sorry....you can't show that.....and the fact that there are many gun ranges that can't get a licesne to open because of gun grabbers preventing them from opening shows how unreliable your point is.....

If it's hard to start new ranges the existing ones would be packed and doing lots of business. They are not however as business is declining.

 

[2aguy]

Brain is about to tell you the Cato institute can't be trusted...whereas the known hack, david hemenway who was part of brains study has been shown to create stats by using fake data......what a hack....

Cato are obviously pro gun hacks. I have debunked them many times, they can't be taken seriously.

Brain....pointing your finger at Cato and yelling "I Debunk Thee!!!!!" Is not debunking them.

I have gone into detail many times with you about how ridiculous they are. They don't seek the truth. They seek ways to push the gun lobby.

You should re read their study...well..all the studies, then look at the FBI and CDC numbers which show that gun murder rates are declining as well as gun accident rates as well as gun accidental death rates....all as more than 11.1 million people own and carry guns for self defense, with over 90 million homes with guns in them.

If you want to cut down on gun violence even more.....arrest criminals...then you can leave law abiding gun owners alone....

If more guns equals less crime we would have the least crime in the world since we have by far the most guns. Gun ownership does not effect crime rates.

We have less and less gun crime....as more Americans are armed.....and our violence is like the gun violence in Europe and Australia, confined to very small geographic locations...while the rest of the country is relatively crime free.....and those places with the most gun crime....are cities with highly restrictive gun control....Chicago, Baltimore, D.C.....and coming soon to New York now that they stopped stop and frisk......

 

[2aguy]

That's why I don't get into the studies like you guys do...I look at the data.

No one can argue that there aren't more guns.

If more guns actually equaled more crime...violent crime would be going up.

But instead, violent crime is declining and has been declining, even as the population is growing.

It's indisputable.

You guys are off track. This study says more guns don't lower crime. It does not say more guns increase crime. I don't see how it can be questioned when we have by far the most guns, yet not the lowest crime rates. And keep in mind while there are more guns, ownership is not at its highest rates and may be declining.

And there are countries with absolute gun control with higher gun murder rates than we have.....

And no...gun ownership has gone up....reporting gun ownership has gone down......

Yes I don't think ownership effects crime rates.

Sure you are back in fantasyland again. Ownership is up, but the gun range industry is down. All the facts point to it being down.

Sorry....you can't show that.....and the fact that there are many gun ranges that can't get a licesne to open because of gun grabbers preventing them from opening shows how unreliable your point is.....

If it's hard to start new ranges the existing ones would be packed and doing lots of business. They are not however as business is declining.

Sorry....they are seeing increases in use and more variety of shooter as more and more women take up shooting and more minorities are heading to the ranges.....

 

[Iceweasel]

Guns Don t Deter Crime Study Finds

It will around here. Study fail.

 

[Brain357]

Cato are obviously pro gun hacks. I have debunked them many times, they can't be taken seriously.

Brain....pointing your finger at Cato and yelling "I Debunk Thee!!!!!" Is not debunking them.

I have gone into detail many times with you about how ridiculous they are. They don't seek the truth. They seek ways to push the gun lobby.

You should re read their study...well..all the studies, then look at the FBI and CDC numbers which show that gun murder rates are declining as well as gun accident rates as well as gun accidental death rates....all as more than 11.1 million people own and carry guns for self defense, with over 90 million homes with guns in them.

If you want to cut down on gun violence even more.....arrest criminals...then you can leave law abiding gun owners alone....

If more guns equals less crime we would have the least crime in the world since we have by far the most guns. Gun ownership does not effect crime rates.

We have less and less gun crime....as more Americans are armed.....and our violence is like the gun violence in Europe and Australia, confined to very small geographic locations...while the rest of the country is relatively crime free.....and those places with the most gun crime....are cities with highly restrictive gun control....Chicago, Baltimore, D.C.....and coming soon to New York now that they stopped stop and frisk......

Studies like this one have shown crime rates are not effected by an increase in ownership.

 

[2aguy]

Brain is about to tell you the Cato institute can't be trusted...whereas the known hack, david hemenway who was part of brains study has been shown to create stats by using fake data......what a hack....

Cato are obviously pro gun hacks. I have debunked them many times, they can't be taken seriously.

Brain....pointing your finger at Cato and yelling "I Debunk Thee!!!!!" Is not debunking them.

I have gone into detail many times with you about how ridiculous they are. They don't seek the truth. They seek ways to push the gun lobby.

You should re read their study...well..all the studies, then look at the FBI and CDC numbers which show that gun murder rates are declining as well as gun accident rates as well as gun accidental death rates....all as more than 11.1 million people own and carry guns for self defense, with over 90 million homes with guns in them.

If you want to cut down on gun violence even more.....arrest criminals...then you can leave law abiding gun owners alone....

If more guns equals less crime we would have the least crime in the world since we have by far the most guns. Gun ownership does not effect crime rates.

And if no guns equal less crime the countries with extreme gun control would have less gun murders than we do...and that isn't the case....we only rank 90 or so in the gun murder rate in the world...

And don't tell me those are 3rd world countries.....you guys say that gun control will reduce gun murder.....and if that is true then these 3rd world countries with absolute gun control should have almost 0 gun crimes...and they don't.....

 

[Brain357]

You guys are off track. This study says more guns don't lower crime. It does not say more guns increase crime. I don't see how it can be questioned when we have by far the most guns, yet not the lowest crime rates. And keep in mind while there are more guns, ownership is not at its highest rates and may be declining.

And there are countries with absolute gun control with higher gun murder rates than we have.....

And no...gun ownership has gone up....reporting gun ownership has gone down......

Yes I don't think ownership effects crime rates.

Sure you are back in fantasyland again. Ownership is up, but the gun range industry is down. All the facts point to it being down.

Sorry....you can't show that.....and the fact that there are many gun ranges that can't get a licesne to open because of gun grabbers preventing them from opening shows how unreliable your point is.....

If it's hard to start new ranges the existing ones would be packed and doing lots of business. They are not however as business is declining.

Sorry....they are seeing increases in use and more variety of shooter as more and more women take up shooting and more minorities are heading to the ranges.....

If that were true the ranges would be doing well. Again, business is down. Stop making shit up.

 

[2aguy]

Brain....pointing your finger at Cato and yelling "I Debunk Thee!!!!!" Is not debunking them.

I have gone into detail many times with you about how ridiculous they are. They don't seek the truth. They seek ways to push the gun lobby.

You should re read their study...well..all the studies, then look at the FBI and CDC numbers which show that gun murder rates are declining as well as gun accident rates as well as gun accidental death rates....all as more than 11.1 million people own and carry guns for self defense, with over 90 million homes with guns in them.

If you want to cut down on gun violence even more.....arrest criminals...then you can leave law abiding gun owners alone....

If more guns equals less crime we would have the least crime in the world since we have by far the most guns. Gun ownership does not effect crime rates.

We have less and less gun crime....as more Americans are armed.....and our violence is like the gun violence in Europe and Australia, confined to very small geographic locations...while the rest of the country is relatively crime free.....and those places with the most gun crime....are cities with highly restrictive gun control....Chicago, Baltimore, D.C.....and coming soon to New York now that they stopped stop and frisk......

Studies like this one have shown crime rates are not effected by an increase in ownership.

And there are 29 studies I have linked to in the past....18 said guns do reduce crime, 10 said they do not effect crime and 1 said it increases crime..............