New Calls on GOP Side Not to Lift Debt Limit .

[Quantum Windbag]

This imaginary '20 percent across the board' would not alleviate the need to raise the ceiling.

I detect a certain measure of glee in this fact....As if to say; "well, we can never really pay it back, so fuck it let's party".

No, it's a wholesale rejection of the argument that "Instead of raising the ceiling, let's just cut spending 20%." The math just don't work out.

Taxes must be increased if we're going to get out of this. It's inevitable. I support cuts too, but we can't exclusively cut our way out of this. There's not enough to cut. A majority of the "Spending" are mandatory obligations.

The only thing that is inevitable is the crash if we keep doing the same thing. The bipartisan commission mapped out a way to reduce the deficit without any major cuts or tax hikes. They mostly eliminated loopholes and tax subsidies and credits, and made some modest and comparatively simple cuts in planned spending. Nothing the proposed would require drastic action, and nothing near a 20% across the board cut.

Yet both sides of the debate ignore that report because it does not fit their preconceived ideas. You should check out their report before you declare what is, and is not, inevitable. We need to fix taxes before we raise them.

 

[Cuyo]

The goddam "surplus" is being pissed away faster than it can be collected, you fucking fool!

You mean the one he has finally admitted was spent already?

http://www.usmessageboard.com/polit...ide-not-to-lift-debt-limit-3.html#post3221684

My very first post in this thread regarding the trust fund.

Not to mention, the single biggest line item on our budget, Social Security, has a MASSIVE surplus. The money has been blown elsewhere; That is, building an empire.

Hey, nice try though.

 

[kaz]

As I've said - We should not be forcing seniors to fund your ability to pay lower taxes than they ever did, with the money that was earmarked for their retirement. It's wrong

There is no social security trust fund and there never was. They loaned the money to themselves and spent it. They gave us the T-Bills, and the bill to pay back the T-Bills. They gave us nothing, nothing was earmarked except us to give the bills for the money they already spent, and more bills to give them welfare in retirement. Seniors screwed us. That is the reality.

 

[Cuyo]

I detect a certain measure of glee in this fact....As if to say; "well, we can never really pay it back, so fuck it let's party".

No, it's a wholesale rejection of the argument that "Instead of raising the ceiling, let's just cut spending 20%." The math just don't work out.

Taxes must be increased if we're going to get out of this. It's inevitable. I support cuts too, but we can't exclusively cut our way out of this. There's not enough to cut. A majority of the "Spending" are mandatory obligations.

The only thing that is inevitable is the crash if we keep doing the same thing. The bipartisan commission mapped out a way to reduce the deficit without any major cuts or tax hikes. They mostly eliminated loopholes and tax subsidies and credits, and made some modest and comparatively simple cuts in planned spending. Nothing the proposed would require drastic action, and nothing near a 20% across the board cut.

Yet both sides of the debate ignore that report because it does not fit their preconceived ideas. You should check out their report before you declare what is, and is not, inevitable. We need to fix taxes before we raise them.

QW, the question is, should the ceiling be raised, or not. I'd love it if the budget could be balanced with only moderate spending cuts and/or moderate tax increases, but it's just not the case. The proposal does not even come close to eliminating the need for a ceiling raise.

 

[Oddball]

The goddam "surplus" is being pissed away faster than it can be collected, you fucking fool!

You mean the one he has finally admitted was spent already?

It's like talking to a spoiled rotten trust funder punk little child, who has run daddy's credit cards grossly over their limits. Then, agrees to reel in his extravagant lifestyle only if his credit card limits are raised and he gets a bigger allowance.

The nation, as we have come to know it, is absolutely done for....Start buying up gold, silver and ammo, while you still can.

 

[Cuyo]

The goddam "surplus" is being pissed away faster than it can be collected, you fucking fool!

You mean the one he has finally admitted was spent already?

It's like talking to a spoiled rotten trust funder punk little child, who has run daddy's credit cards grossly over their limits. Then, agrees to reel in his extravagant lifestyle only if his credit card limits are raised and he gets a bigger allowance.

The nation, as we have come to know it, is absolutely done for....Start buying up gold, silver and ammo, while you still can.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/polit...ide-not-to-lift-debt-limit-6.html#post3222864

My position hasn't changed, not a once. Stop trying to frame it otherwise.

And, you still haven't answered the fucking question. You're just hurling soundbytes at this point.

 

[Oddball]

Your position indeed hasn't changed...It's exactly the attitude of the spoiled rotten trust funder punk little child I just described.

That the republicans are throwing in with this massive steamer load of turd polish is exactly why I haven't voted for a singe one, since '94.

 

[Cuyo]

Your position indeed hasn't changed...It's exactly the attitude of the spoiled rotten trust funder punk little child I just described.

That the republicans are throwing in with this massive steamer load of turd polish is exactly why I haven't voted for a singe one, since '94.

Thank you for pointing out that Avy's a liar, and I assure you I'm none of those things.

I'm looking at our current situation realistically. I wish you would do the same. One or more of three things is going to happen in the next few months, FOR SURE. 1. Ceiling will be raised, or 2. Taxes will be significantly increased, or 3. Government will shut down. It's not possible for none of those three things to happen. Screaming "JUST CUT SPENDING!" is an exercise in futility.

 

[kaz]

Not to mention, the single biggest line item on our budget, Social Security, has a MASSIVE surplus. The money has been blown elsewhere; That is, building an empire.

Hey, nice try though.

The problem with your argument is that it's based on the fallacious "fixed pie" theory. That is that the economy is a certain size and when government takes a slice no matter the size, the economy will remain the same. The reality is that cutting taxes stimulates economic activity. As a massive tax on our economy, the social security tax greatly reduces the size of the pie. That money is then given to people who don't produce any economic benefit. Social Security is not only an abdication of personal responsibility, but it's a pure economy crusher. Cutting either the taxes coming in or the welfare checks going out would create a great economic benefit in the true measure of debt as a portion of our economy as the denominator would grow quickly.

 

[LibocalypseNow]

If some real spending cuts come out of raising the Debt Limit,i'll have to be satisfied. I'll take what i can get at this point.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Medicare was pretty workable at inception. The framers either couldn't... Or wouldn't... Or just didn't... Predict that people would live so long, and their healthcare would be so expensive. Medicaid, obviously, is a vacuum; A welfare program in the truest sense of the word. I haven't heard a reasonable alternative. The best thing, of course, would be to get as many people as possible out of poverty to limit enrollment. If anyone's got the magic bullet to make that happen... don't keep it to yourself.

If only it were that simple.

Medicare went over its projected budget its first year, and ended up costing the entire projected 10 year budget in a very short time. You can try to blame that on people living longer than expected it you want, but I think most people will realize that it was probably something other than that, because it really couldn't positively impact life expectancy that quickly unless American health care is superior to everything we have been hearing about it.

The truest "Conservative" solution to Medicaid would be to just get rid of it and replace it with nothing... If you need healthcare, you pay. If you can't, you don't get healthcare. Even if it means death, dismemberment, suffering, whatever... I still haven't heard any Cons here advocate that.

How is that worse than sending people to herbalists for cancer treatment?

As far as Obamacare - We'll see. The program has obviously got some changes coming. As of now, the program nets a positive for the deficit. But that's as a result of some very unpopular provisions.

It is a net positive only if everything they say about it is 100% true and it works exactly the way they predict it will. Since you already pointed out exactly how good Congress is at prognosticating when it comes to medical care and life expectancy I am forced to choose between you lying now, or you advocating for killing people off when they get too old. Which do you want me to believe?

 

[Cuyo]

If some real spending cuts come out of raising the Debt Limit,i'll have to be satisfied. I'll take what i can get at this point.

God help us Libo, you are making the most sense out of any conservative here at this point.

 

[Liability]

There is a truly remarkably easy to follow and very much workable solution.

STOP. SPENDING. SO. MUCH. OF. OUR. FUCKING. MONEY.

Say no to permitting the debt limit to get raised.

This will FORCE US to spend less. Make cuts.

Just. Fucking. Do. It.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

You point out how destructive our politicians have been......very true....but making it a generational war is plain stupid....SS was originally created long ago under FDR....part of the New Deal...

Boomers...as all others.... are FORCED to pay 15% of their gross income for SS.....if YOU had saved 15% of your gross paycheck for 40 years and invested it well you probably would have a million dollar retirement on that alone....

Not raising the debt limit would force us NOW to begin paying for the mistakes....instead of putting them off into the future...i say we cut government to the bone....not SS checks...

How on earth do we cut government to the bone without cutting SS checks?

Hey, here's a no-brainer. Let me put it into a little bit easier perspective still, than I already have.

If you CUT SS outlays - Do you also want to ELIMINATE the tax?

Because if you ELIMINATE both, you INCREASE the deficit.

Coming into focus for you yet?

I see you went to the politicians accounting course instead of studying it in the real world. Eliminating SS would have no impact on the deficit because the money is already spent, and the existing law already requires the CBO to count SS as separate from the deficit, until Congress actually steals it and tells them it is revenue. That imaginary SS surplus you keep talking about actually increases the deficit because the government owes that money to the SS trust fund, so eliminating SS entirely would actually eliminate that much debt, wich would effectively wipe most of last years deficit off the books.

Congress would be forced to find other places to get the money they count from SS, but they need to do that anyway because SS is going to pay out more than it takes in this year.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

No, I'm proving to you, in no uncertain terms, that SS is NOT the problem.

You are essentially sticking your fingers in your ears and shouting "LALALALALALALALALA. Yes it is."

Every unconstitutional program that is bankrupting our nation is the problem.

Putting your fingers in your ears and ignoring the problem doesn't make it any less a problem.

And SS is bankrupt. Heck, the entire government is bankrupt. It's time to stop denying that and fix the problem.

SS is 'Bankrupt' because it's funds were raided and spent elsewhere - Not because the program itself is in deficit.

I can't go through this with you anymore. You're willfully ignorant of the factual, undisputed reality of the situation.

Why does the reason it is bankrupt matter? The fact is that it is bankrupt. It isn't like the money is going to suddenly reappear because the reason is that it was stolen.

 

[Avatar4321]

Your position indeed hasn't changed...It's exactly the attitude of the spoiled rotten trust funder punk little child I just described.

That the republicans are throwing in with this massive steamer load of turd polish is exactly why I haven't voted for a singe one, since '94.

Thank you for pointing out that Avy's a liar, and I assure you I'm none of those things.

I'm looking at our current situation realistically. I wish you would do the same. One or more of three things is going to happen in the next few months, FOR SURE. 1. Ceiling will be raised, or 2. Taxes will be significantly increased, or 3. Government will shut down. It's not possible for none of those three things to happen. Screaming "JUST CUT SPENDING!" is an exercise in futility.

Not my fault that you cant make up your mind about whether SS has a surplus or has already been spent. You being inconsistant hardly makes me a liar.

 

[LibocalypseNow]

If some real spending cuts come out of raising the Debt Limit,i'll have to be satisfied. I'll take what i can get at this point.

God help us Libo, you are making the most sense out of any conservative here at this point.

lol! Yea if the Republicans can attach some real spending cuts to Raising the Debt Limit,we'll all just have to be satisfied. The Debt Limit is going to be raised. That's just the reality. The best we can hope for now is to get some spending cuts along with it. Hey i know it's a Shit-Sandwich but we're all just gonna have to eat it.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

DEBT CEILING - Raise, yes or no.

No

GOVERNMENT SHUT DOWN - Advocate or oppose.

Why are you asking this? Do you honestly think that the government cannot continue to function unless the debt ceiling is raised? If so, you are misinformed.

TAX INCREASES - Are they ever ok, under ANY circumstances?

Yes, if they are part of a deficit reduction plan, and not just a gimmick to make it look like politicians are trying to be fiscally responsible.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

No, it's a wholesale rejection of the argument that "Instead of raising the ceiling, let's just cut spending 20%." The math just don't work out.

Taxes must be increased if we're going to get out of this. It's inevitable. I support cuts too, but we can't exclusively cut our way out of this. There's not enough to cut. A majority of the "Spending" are mandatory obligations.

The only thing that is inevitable is the crash if we keep doing the same thing. The bipartisan commission mapped out a way to reduce the deficit without any major cuts or tax hikes. They mostly eliminated loopholes and tax subsidies and credits, and made some modest and comparatively simple cuts in planned spending. Nothing the proposed would require drastic action, and nothing near a 20% across the board cut.

Yet both sides of the debate ignore that report because it does not fit their preconceived ideas. You should check out their report before you declare what is, and is not, inevitable. We need to fix taxes before we raise them.

QW, the question is, should the ceiling be raised, or not. I'd love it if the budget could be balanced with only moderate spending cuts and/or moderate tax increases, but it's just not the case. The proposal does not even come close to eliminating the need for a ceiling raise.

The ceiling should not be raised because it will only encourage the government to spend more money. Plenty of states have faced the fact that they have no money, and most of them are required to exist simply on the funds they actually have. There is no reason the federal government should not operate on the same principle.

 

[LibocalypseNow]

Hey remember when this current President vehemently opposed raising the Debt Limit? Remember all those pious speeches he gave on how evil & wrong it was to put such an awful burden on our children? Now he's suddenly very much in favor of raising the Debt Limit. Gee i wonder why? Just more hypocrisy & dishonesty. But that's just the way politics is. The Debt Limit will be raised. Lets get some real spending cuts to go along with it though. That's as good as it's gonna get folks.