Negotiating with the Islamists...

[PoliticalChic]

Are you unaware that the vast majority of Muslims don't agree with you on that? But I'll give you the same offer I made before in my previous post...go through the State Dept report I linked and show us exactly how your claim is true for even a significant minority of Muslim-dominated countries...numbers of forced conversions and number of deaths due to refusal to convert.

"Are you unaware that the vast majority of Muslims don't agree with you on that" And how many of the billion have you queried?

Polled on Arabic supremacy:
""In Egypt 81 percent said they agreed with the al Qaeda goal of "requir[ing] a strict application of Shari'a law in every Islamic country" (65% strongly); only 12 percent disagreed. Pakistanis were similar with 76 percent agreeing with this goal (52% strongly); 5 percent disagreed. Indonesians, however, agreed by only a narrow plurality: 49 percent supported the goal (just 14% strongly), while 42 percent disagreed. In Morocco in late 2006, 76 percent agreed."
Jihad Watch: International poll: Muslims support strict Sharia, Islamic supremacism

"Nearly 25 percent of young Muslims living in Britain support the concept of suicide bombings, according to a poll on a radical Muslim internet website used mainly by people in this country.

The forum, attached to the Ummah.com site, started a poll amongst its members by setting up the survey asking “Do you agree with suicide bombings?”
25 Percent of Young Muslims Support Suicide Bombings, Internet Poll Finds : The British National Party

"According to Islamic laws, non-Muslims in Islamic Lands should be subdued and be treated like Dhimmis, or second class citizens. They should be coerced and intimidated to convert to Islam, through special humiliating taxes like Jizya imposed on them. This has been happening in the Islamic World since the last 1400 years. While Muslims demand equal rights in non-Muslim countries, non-Muslims are systematically persecuted, terrorized and ethnically cleansed from Islamic Lands. With the recent rise of Muslim populations in the traditionally Christian/Secular West, also comes the noticeable rise of Islamic violence and terrorist activities aimed towards the non-Muslims. "
Persecution of non-Muslims - WikiIslam

For clarification purposes, are you of the "Can't We All Just Get Along" School or the "Bury My Head In The Sand" School?

 

[geauxtohell]

"Everything I learned about Islam, I learned from spending a year dealing with Muslims of all stripes in Afghanistan." I see the problem: no actual learning.

LOL. Yeah, that's the problem. Actually being in an Islamic country and trying to figure out creative ways to divorce moderate muslims from a radicalist movement led to "no actual learning".

I am sure you understand the issue much more completely through reading OPEDs on the internet.

I can understand your desire to change the subject, as your ignorance is mythic in proportions.

Not at all, you challenged my knowledge base, and I enlightened you.

BTW, save for the Wright interview (which I am not sure why you linked), your sources are biased and thus total crap.

If your point is that I should cut you some slack as you served our country in the forces serving in Afghanistan, I both value your service, and thank you for same.

I don't want any slack, I only brought it up to demonstrate that I had first hand knowledge of this matter. Thanks for the thanks though.

But if you feel that I should value your knowledge, when you have given no evidence of same, I must respectfully disagree.

You can choose to value my knowledge or not. It's immaterial to me. I suspect your mind is made up. My point is that I don't value your opinion on the matter, because it doesn't mesh with what I experienced.

The hyperbole that is thrown around by the "religion of evil" crowd does not proximately resemble my actual experiences.

So, would you like to pick any or all of my points and indicate where they are untrue? I challenge you!

Perhaps we should start with the phantom conspiracy that every muslim secretely holds in which they want to convert us all at the tip of a sword.

It's false.

And hypocritical considering that you have an Ann Coulter quote in your sig.

In what way is my point reactionary? It seems that you feel that somehow the use of the term obviates the numerous statements in my post, yet you failed to disprove any.
Try, hone your skills.

Catagorizing an entire religion of 1.2 billion people as inherently evil is reactionary, wrong-headed, and plays right into AQ's propaganda line.

Further, "Some Christians and Jews have equally fascistic views" is patently false and absurd. While Christians proselytize, they do not do so under threat of death. I don't believe that Jews proselytize.

Christian seperatist movements are every bit as violent and dangerous as Islamic terrorists.

Sayyid Qutb, the philosopher of radical Islam, concluded that non-Islamic states have no right to exist. Qutb added Marxism, and made violent jihad necessary

"The solution to that is not to negotiate or legitimize people who believe such things." ???

I bolded the only relevant part of your last statement.

You have no clue as to the nature of radical Islam. How can you have served in the Middle East without having been educated as to the idea of suicide bombings?

Pashtuns did not embrace the tactic of suicide bombings when I was in country and it was not believed to be an automatic ticket to matyrdom. That is why there are less suicide bombings in Afghanistan.

My God, I believe I just insinuated that there are rifts in the Islamic religion as to what is appropriate and what is not.

I appreciate you assessment of my lack of knowledge about "radical Islam" though. Like I said, there is little you can do or say (in my estimation) that is going to trump my actual experience.

Umm Nidal, celebrating the death of her son as a shahid, “Because I love my son, I encouraged him to die a martyr's death for the sake of Allah…”
MEMRI: Special Dispatch - No. 391

Disgusting. What is your point? I never claimed that there weren't crazies in the Islamic relgion. I just denied that craziness was inherent to the religion.

To put a fine point on it, Islam must be made to change its focus, to leave barbarism behind, and come into the 21st century.

I agree. How do you propose we do that when you have deemed the religion inherently evil?

How can you support any of our current operations? If Islam is as you say it is, the only solution is to bomb them into the stone age since there is no such creature as a moderate muslim.

The idea is not without precident. MacArthur forced the emperor to address the Japanese nation and admit he was not god.

Please don't mix conventional conflicts with unconventional ones, it demonstrates your ignorance of warfare.

 

[pinqy]

Are you unaware that the vast majority of Muslims don't agree with you on that? But I'll give you the same offer I made before in my previous post...go through the State Dept report I linked and show us exactly how your claim is true for even a significant minority of Muslim-dominated countries...numbers of forced conversions and number of deaths due to refusal to convert.

"Are you unaware that the vast majority of Muslims don't agree with you on that" And how many of the billion have you queried?

More than you, apparently. And gee, not one tried to force me to convert or die. I'm waiting your report on the actual number of forced conversions and death

Polled on Arabic supremacy:
""In Egypt 81 percent said they agreed with the al Qaeda goal of "requir[ing] a strict application of Shari'a law in every Islamic country" (65% strongly); only 12 percent disagreed. Pakistanis were similar with 76 percent agreeing with this goal (52% strongly); 5 percent disagreed. Indonesians, however, agreed by only a narrow plurality: 49 percent supported the goal (just 14% strongly), while 42 percent disagreed. In Morocco in late 2006, 76 percent agreed."
Jihad Watch: International poll: Muslims support strict Sharia, Islamic supremacism

That's kind of confusing...You say Arab supremecy, but of the 4 (out of over 50 Muslim countries) you list, only Morroccans are Arabs (Arabs and Berbers). So you're showing misunderstanding right there. And even of those four, Morocco doesn't follow Shari'a, Indonesia has only one Province that officially follows Shari'a (though others that do so unofficially), and in Pakistan it's mostly family law, though there are elements throughout. About half of all Muslim countries don't follow Shari'a law at all.

"According to Islamic laws, non-Muslims in Islamic Lands should be subdued and be treated like Dhimmis, or second class citizens. They should be coerced and intimidated to convert to Islam, through special humiliating taxes like Jizya imposed on them. This has been happening in the Islamic World since the last 1400 years. While Muslims demand equal rights in non-Muslim countries, non-Muslims are systematically persecuted, terrorized and ethnically cleansed from Islamic Lands. With the recent rise of Muslim populations in the traditionally Christian/Secular West, also comes the noticeable rise of Islamic violence and terrorist activities aimed towards the non-Muslims. "

And again, about half of all Muslim countries don't follow Islamic laws as law of the land, and of those that do, few legally treat non-Muslims as second class or "subdue" them or intimidate them or have Jizya imposed. I linked to the reports, read for yourself what the reality is instead of insisting that your interpretation of the Koran is the only one anyone follows.

For clarification purposes, are you of the "Can't We All Just Get Along" School or the "Bury My Head In The Sand" School?

I'm of the "I actually did my own research and read what's actually happening." I'm perfectly aware of the bad things many Muslims do, and how bad things are in many Islamic countries. But it's way more complex than you claim. Let's look at the four countries you brought up:
Egypt:Shari'a law is official, though some ammendments to the Constitution contradict this. For family law (marriage, divorce, alimony, child custody, and burial) Muslim families are subject to Shari'a, Christian families to canon law, and Jewish families to Jewish law. For conversion, the government does not recognize conversion from Islam, though the courts ruled that people born Christian who became Muslim and convert back to Christianity should be officially identified as Christian. There were a few cases of violence against Muslim converts to Christianity, though again most discrimination was againts Bah'ai and other branch Islam sects. There were mixed reports of forced conversion to Islam, one of a man who converted to Islam and insisted his sons convert too, and reports of non-Muslim women forced to convert to Islam when marrying Muslim men (which Shari'a law does NOT require). Most of those cases are disputed and hard to verify if they're true or if the family just objects. The Islamic government did not force anyone to convert.


Indonesia:Only one province in Indonesia has Shari'a law, although several others have elements unofficially by pretending they are secular laws (much as many states in the US had or have Blue Laws). Most of the discrimination that occurred in 2008 was against Muslims for blasphemy, and the Ahmadiyya sect was banned altogether. 12 churches were closed, either by pressure from outside extremists or by the local community. But there were NO forced conversions.

[http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/irf/2008/108489.htm]Morocco[/url] Shari'a law is only applied to family law for Muslims. Jews follow Jewish law. Jews, Christians and Muslims all receive tax benefits, subsidies, land grants, tariff exemptions, for religious activities.
There are no restrictions on religious worship, though it is illegal to try to convert a Muslim. Jews have protected status and the government funds Jewish studies. There were no forced conversions.

Pakistan Elements of Shari'a are common, and there have been efforts for full implementation of Shari'a. Non-muslim missionaries can proselytize as long as they don't preach against Islam. Non-Muslims do face some discrimination, and while the Pakistani police are overall brutal and it's not clear they specifically target other religions, Christians and Ahmadis claim they are more likely to be abused. Ahmadis seem to face more abuse and discrimination than Christians (it's a pattern in Muslim countries that Muslims of differing sects fare worse than non-Muslims). Approx 15-20 Hindu girls a year are forced to convert and marry Muslim men. and in 2007-2008, this happened to 3 Christian girls, 2 of whom were sisters. The Human Rights Comission and Christian lawyers got the 2 girls back to their family, though the police did nothing, and the case of the third girl was still in the courts at the time of the report.

So, some nastiness, and some forced conversion of girls who were basically kidnapped, but hardly a general "Convert or Die" which you claim they all follow. Weird that they're not actually doing that and generally speaking the non-Muslims are free to worship even in the countries you cite as demanding strict Shari'a.

Do you see the difference between facts and assertions about what people believe? No, I guess you don't. You can claim all you want that Convert or Die is a basic tenet, but reality is that it just doesn't turn out that way in reality, where I live.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Are you unaware that the vast majority of Muslims don't agree with you on that? But I'll give you the same offer I made before in my previous post...go through the State Dept report I linked and show us exactly how your claim is true for even a significant minority of Muslim-dominated countries...numbers of forced conversions and number of deaths due to refusal to convert.

"Are you unaware that the vast majority of Muslims don't agree with you on that" And how many of the billion have you queried?

More than you, apparently. And gee, not one tried to force me to convert or die. I'm waiting your report on the actual number of forced conversions and death

That's kind of confusing...You say Arab supremecy, but of the 4 (out of over 50 Muslim countries) you list, only Morroccans are Arabs (Arabs and Berbers). So you're showing misunderstanding right there. And even of those four, Morocco doesn't follow Shari'a, Indonesia has only one Province that officially follows Shari'a (though others that do so unofficially), and in Pakistan it's mostly family law, though there are elements throughout. About half of all Muslim countries don't follow Shari'a law at all.

"According to Islamic laws, non-Muslims in Islamic Lands should be subdued and be treated like Dhimmis, or second class citizens. They should be coerced and intimidated to convert to Islam, through special humiliating taxes like Jizya imposed on them. This has been happening in the Islamic World since the last 1400 years. While Muslims demand equal rights in non-Muslim countries, non-Muslims are systematically persecuted, terrorized and ethnically cleansed from Islamic Lands. With the recent rise of Muslim populations in the traditionally Christian/Secular West, also comes the noticeable rise of Islamic violence and terrorist activities aimed towards the non-Muslims. "

And again, about half of all Muslim countries don't follow Islamic laws as law of the land, and of those that do, few legally treat non-Muslims as second class or "subdue" them or intimidate them or have Jizya imposed. I linked to the reports, read for yourself what the reality is instead of insisting that your interpretation of the Koran is the only one anyone follows.

For clarification purposes, are you of the "Can't We All Just Get Along" School or the "Bury My Head In The Sand" School?

I'm of the "I actually did my own research and read what's actually happening." I'm perfectly aware of the bad things many Muslims do, and how bad things are in many Islamic countries. But it's way more complex than you claim. Let's look at the four countries you brought up:
Egypt:Shari'a law is official, though some ammendments to the Constitution contradict this. For family law (marriage, divorce, alimony, child custody, and burial) Muslim families are subject to Shari'a, Christian families to canon law, and Jewish families to Jewish law. For conversion, the government does not recognize conversion from Islam, though the courts ruled that people born Christian who became Muslim and convert back to Christianity should be officially identified as Christian. There were a few cases of violence against Muslim converts to Christianity, though again most discrimination was againts Bah'ai and other branch Islam sects. There were mixed reports of forced conversion to Islam, one of a man who converted to Islam and insisted his sons convert too, and reports of non-Muslim women forced to convert to Islam when marrying Muslim men (which Shari'a law does NOT require). Most of those cases are disputed and hard to verify if they're true or if the family just objects. The Islamic government did not force anyone to convert.


Indonesia:Only one province in Indonesia has Shari'a law, although several others have elements unofficially by pretending they are secular laws (much as many states in the US had or have Blue Laws). Most of the discrimination that occurred in 2008 was against Muslims for blasphemy, and the Ahmadiyya sect was banned altogether. 12 churches were closed, either by pressure from outside extremists or by the local community. But there were NO forced conversions.

[http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/irf/2008/108489.htm]Morocco[/url] Shari'a law is only applied to family law for Muslims. Jews follow Jewish law. Jews, Christians and Muslims all receive tax benefits, subsidies, land grants, tariff exemptions, for religious activities.
There are no restrictions on religious worship, though it is illegal to try to convert a Muslim. Jews have protected status and the government funds Jewish studies. There were no forced conversions.

Pakistan Elements of Shari'a are common, and there have been efforts for full implementation of Shari'a. Non-muslim missionaries can proselytize as long as they don't preach against Islam. Non-Muslims do face some discrimination, and while the Pakistani police are overall brutal and it's not clear they specifically target other religions, Christians and Ahmadis claim they are more likely to be abused. Ahmadis seem to face more abuse and discrimination than Christians (it's a pattern in Muslim countries that Muslims of differing sects fare worse than non-Muslims). Approx 15-20 Hindu girls a year are forced to convert and marry Muslim men. and in 2007-2008, this happened to 3 Christian girls, 2 of whom were sisters. The Human Rights Comission and Christian lawyers got the 2 girls back to their family, though the police did nothing, and the case of the third girl was still in the courts at the time of the report.

So, some nastiness, and some forced conversion of girls who were basically kidnapped, but hardly a general "Convert or Die" which you claim they all follow. Weird that they're not actually doing that and generally speaking the non-Muslims are free to worship even in the countries you cite as demanding strict Shari'a.

Do you see the difference between facts and assertions about what people believe? No, I guess you don't. You can claim all you want that Convert or Die is a basic tenet, but reality is that it just doesn't turn out that way in reality, where I live.

"Arabs" are folks who speak Arabic.

The Koran is the source of all statutes, rules, regulations, laws, customs.

Read same, and be enlightened as to the multiple errors in your post.

 

[PoliticalChic]

More than you, apparently. And gee, not one tried to force me to convert or die. I'm waiting your report on the actual number of forced conversions and death

Sadly, you are the perfect example of a political perspective without the benefit of knowledge.

In Egypt, Two Coptic Activists Arrested
The MEMRI Blog- August 10, 2007

Christians Fleeing Violence in Iraq
Associated Press- Fox News- May 7, 2007

The Big Christian Exodus From the Middle East
Hussein Shobokshi- Assyrian International News Agency- January 11, 2007

A Christian Exodus From the Arab World
Amira El Ahl, Daniel Steinvorth, Volkhard Windfuhr and Bernhard Zand- Assyrian International News Agency- January 11, 2007

A Christian Exodus from the Arab World
Amira El Ahl, Daniel Steinvorth, Volkhard Windfuhr and Bernhard Zand- Spiegel Online International- January 10, 2007

CSI Highlights Plight of Persecuted Christians in Syria, Other Mideast Nations
Allie Martin- Agape Press- January 3, 2007

Arab Christians as Symbol: Disappearing Christians of the Middle East
Hilal Khashan- Middle East Quarterly- Winter 2001

All My staff at the Church Have Been Killed - They Disappeared
Stephen Farrell- Times Online- December 26, 2006

Countdown for Christians in Syria
Christian Solidarity International- December 25, 2006

The Christian Exodus and Lahoud's Fate Central to Maronite Bishops' Appeal
Yousef Hourany- AsiaNews.it- December 25, 2006

Coptic Patriarch in Retreat to Protest Anti-Christian Discrimination
AsiaNews.it- December 25, 2006

The Arab Christians of the Middle East: A Demographic Perspective
Philippe Fargues- Oxford University Press- December 25, 2006

The Arab Christians
Newsdesk.org - December 24, 2006

Vanishing Christians of the Mideast
Gregory Katz- Houston Chronicle- December 24, 2006

Lebanon Violence Forces Christian TV Network to Cancel Events
Jennifer Riley - The Christian Post- December 8, 2006

In Lebanon, A Crisis for Christians
Nicholas Blanford- The Christian Science Monitor- November 28, 2006

International Christian Concern Weekly News Update
International Christian Concern- November 2, 2006

International Christian Concern Weekly News Update
International Christian Concern- October 27, 2006

Muslims attack Christians in Henno, Ethiopia
International Christian Concern- October 24, 2006

International Christian Concern Weekly News Update
International Christian Concern- October 24, 2006

International Christian Concern Weekly News Update
International Christian Concern- October 13, 2006

'In 20 Years, There Will Be No More Christians in Iraq'
The Guardian- October 6, 2006

Persecution of Christians Pervasive Across the Muslim World
Lisa Jones- Christian Freedom International- October 6, 2006

Open Doors Warns of Increasing Attacks Against Iraq's Christian Community
Daniel Blake- Christian Post- October 5, 2006

Al-Qaida No. 2 urges Pope, Christians to convert to Islam
The Associated Press and Haaretz Service- Haaretz - October 3, 2006

Open Doors Warns of Increasing Attacks Against Iraq’s Christian Community
Daniel Blake- Christian Today- October 3, 2006

The Forgotten Christian
AMNON RUBINSTEIN- The New York Sun- October 3, 2006

International Christian Concern Weekly News Update
International Christian Concern- September 29, 2006

Al-Qaeda threatens jihad over Pope's remarks
Jenny Booth and agencies- Times Online- September 19, 2006

Tensions still high over pope's remarks
THE JERUSALEM POST - September 19, 2006

Pope Remarks Worry Mideast Christians
Anna Johnson - Associated Press- September 18, 2006

Growing Christian-Muslim Divisions Worry Mideast Believers
Nadia Abou El-Magd - The Christian Post- September 18, 2006

International Christian Concern Weekly News Update
International Christian Concern- September 15, 2006

Cardinal Pleads for Rights
Barney Zwartz- www.fairfax.com.au- September 1, 2006

Hezbollah is Using Christian Villages to Shield its Military Operations in Violation of International Law
Rev. Dr. Keith Roderick- July, 2006

International Christian Concern Weekly News Update
International Christian Concern- August 4, 2006

International Christian Concern Weekly News Update
International Christian Concern- July 21, 2006

International Christian Concern Weekly News Update
International Christian Concern Weekly News Update- July 14, 2006

International Christian Concern Weekly News Update
International Christian Concern Weekly News Update- July 11, 2006

Persecution of Christians on the Rise
Wolfgang Polzer- ASSIST News Service- July 5, 2006

The Vatican Confronts Islam
Daniel Pipes - FrontPageMagazine.com- July 5, 2006

International Christian Concern Weekly News Update
International Christian Concern- June 30, 2006

Pakistan: Woman Raped for Leaving Islam
www.crosswalk.com- June 27, 2006

International Christian Concern Weekly News Update
International Christian Concern- June 23, 2006

Open Doors Wonders: Is Mistreatment of Believers in India Being Ignored?
Editorial Staff- crosswalk.com- May 31, 2006

Jerusalem is the key to solving Mideast problems, says Patriarch Sabbah
Youssef Hourany- www.asianews.it- May 23, 2006

Eritrea Jails Three More Orthodox Church Leaders
Editorial Staff- Crosswalk.com - May 23, 2006

Christians in Lebanon See Hopes, Numbers Diminish
Edward Yeranian- The Christian Science Monitor - May 9, 1997

Where Christianity faces a fight to survive
Isambard Wilkinson- Isambard Wilkinson- April 28, 2006

 

[mal]

Perhaps you didn't read my posts.

I was talking about Bush squandering an opportunity after 9-11. The boat has sailed. There will be no "forcing of the issue". We lost our moral high ground when we invaded Iraq under false pretenses.

You either are Lying about your Knowledge of the Joint Authorization, or you are Ignorant of it's Existence...

Either way, you are Wrong in your Assertion.



peace...

 

[Al Gunn]

It's the American people that squandered your chance when you voted in a mental midget, TWICE!!!!!! You deserve any and all bad feelings towards the US by collectively voting for a clueless moron.

 

[geauxtohell]

Perhaps you didn't read my posts.

I was talking about Bush squandering an opportunity after 9-11. The boat has sailed. There will be no "forcing of the issue". We lost our moral high ground when we invaded Iraq under false pretenses.

You either are Lying about your Knowledge of the Joint Authorization, or you are Ignorant of it's Existence...

Either way, you are Wrong in your Assertion.



peace...

Spare me the bullshit. Bush was the POTUS, he established foreign policy, it was his decision to make.

Congress is guilty of being stupid. Bush is guilty of being strategically retarded.

You can pass the buck if it makes you feel better about your boy, the rest of the world affixes the blame where it belongs.

 

[mal]

It's the American people that squandered your chance when you voted in a mental midget, TWICE!!!!!! You deserve any and all bad feelings towards the US by collectively voting for a clueless moron.

Substanceless as it is Ignorant and Childish...

Liberals are such Douchebags...



peace...

 

[geauxtohell]

More than you, apparently. And gee, not one tried to force me to convert or die. I'm waiting your report on the actual number of forced conversions and death

Sadly, you are the perfect example of a political perspective without the benefit of knowledge.

In Egypt, Two Coptic Activists Arrested
The MEMRI Blog- August 10, 2007

Christians Fleeing Violence in Iraq
Associated Press- Fox News- May 7, 2007

The Big Christian Exodus From the Middle East
Hussein Shobokshi- Assyrian International News Agency- January 11, 2007

A Christian Exodus From the Arab World
Amira El Ahl, Daniel Steinvorth, Volkhard Windfuhr and Bernhard Zand- Assyrian International News Agency- January 11, 2007

A Christian Exodus from the Arab World
Amira El Ahl, Daniel Steinvorth, Volkhard Windfuhr and Bernhard Zand- Spiegel Online International- January 10, 2007

CSI Highlights Plight of Persecuted Christians in Syria, Other Mideast Nations
Allie Martin- Agape Press- January 3, 2007

Arab Christians as Symbol: Disappearing Christians of the Middle East
Hilal Khashan- Middle East Quarterly- Winter 2001

All My staff at the Church Have Been Killed - They Disappeared
Stephen Farrell- Times Online- December 26, 2006

Countdown for Christians in Syria
Christian Solidarity International- December 25, 2006

The Christian Exodus and Lahoud's Fate Central to Maronite Bishops' Appeal
Yousef Hourany- AsiaNews.it- December 25, 2006

Coptic Patriarch in Retreat to Protest Anti-Christian Discrimination
AsiaNews.it- December 25, 2006

The Arab Christians of the Middle East: A Demographic Perspective
Philippe Fargues- Oxford University Press- December 25, 2006

The Arab Christians
Newsdesk.org - December 24, 2006

Vanishing Christians of the Mideast
Gregory Katz- Houston Chronicle- December 24, 2006

Lebanon Violence Forces Christian TV Network to Cancel Events
Jennifer Riley - The Christian Post- December 8, 2006

In Lebanon, A Crisis for Christians
Nicholas Blanford- The Christian Science Monitor- November 28, 2006

International Christian Concern Weekly News Update
International Christian Concern- November 2, 2006

International Christian Concern Weekly News Update
International Christian Concern- October 27, 2006

Muslims attack Christians in Henno, Ethiopia
International Christian Concern- October 24, 2006

International Christian Concern Weekly News Update
International Christian Concern- October 24, 2006

International Christian Concern Weekly News Update
International Christian Concern- October 13, 2006

'In 20 Years, There Will Be No More Christians in Iraq'
The Guardian- October 6, 2006

Persecution of Christians Pervasive Across the Muslim World
Lisa Jones- Christian Freedom International- October 6, 2006

Open Doors Warns of Increasing Attacks Against Iraq's Christian Community
Daniel Blake- Christian Post- October 5, 2006

Al-Qaida No. 2 urges Pope, Christians to convert to Islam
The Associated Press and Haaretz Service- Haaretz - October 3, 2006

Open Doors Warns of Increasing Attacks Against Iraq’s Christian Community
Daniel Blake- Christian Today- October 3, 2006

The Forgotten Christian
AMNON RUBINSTEIN- The New York Sun- October 3, 2006

International Christian Concern Weekly News Update
International Christian Concern- September 29, 2006

Al-Qaeda threatens jihad over Pope's remarks
Jenny Booth and agencies- Times Online- September 19, 2006

Tensions still high over pope's remarks
THE JERUSALEM POST - September 19, 2006

Pope Remarks Worry Mideast Christians
Anna Johnson - Associated Press- September 18, 2006

Growing Christian-Muslim Divisions Worry Mideast Believers
Nadia Abou El-Magd - The Christian Post- September 18, 2006

International Christian Concern Weekly News Update
International Christian Concern- September 15, 2006

Cardinal Pleads for Rights
Barney Zwartz- www.fairfax.com.au- September 1, 2006

Hezbollah is Using Christian Villages to Shield its Military Operations in Violation of International Law
Rev. Dr. Keith Roderick- July, 2006

International Christian Concern Weekly News Update
International Christian Concern- August 4, 2006

International Christian Concern Weekly News Update
International Christian Concern- July 21, 2006

International Christian Concern Weekly News Update
International Christian Concern Weekly News Update- July 14, 2006

International Christian Concern Weekly News Update
International Christian Concern Weekly News Update- July 11, 2006

Persecution of Christians on the Rise
Wolfgang Polzer- ASSIST News Service- July 5, 2006

The Vatican Confronts Islam
Daniel Pipes - FrontPageMagazine.com- July 5, 2006

International Christian Concern Weekly News Update
International Christian Concern- June 30, 2006

Pakistan: Woman Raped for Leaving Islam
www.crosswalk.com- June 27, 2006

International Christian Concern Weekly News Update
International Christian Concern- June 23, 2006

Open Doors Wonders: Is Mistreatment of Believers in India Being Ignored?
Editorial Staff- crosswalk.com- May 31, 2006

Jerusalem is the key to solving Mideast problems, says Patriarch Sabbah
Youssef Hourany- www.asianews.it- May 23, 2006

Eritrea Jails Three More Orthodox Church Leaders
Editorial Staff- Crosswalk.com - May 23, 2006

Christians in Lebanon See Hopes, Numbers Diminish
Edward Yeranian- The Christian Science Monitor - May 9, 1997

Where Christianity faces a fight to survive
Isambard Wilkinson- Isambard Wilkinson- April 28, 2006

And your proposed solution is?

 

[mal]

Spare me the bullshit. Bush was the POTUS, he established foreign policy, it was his decision to make.

Congress is guilty of being stupid. Bush is guilty of being strategically retarded.

You can pass the buck if it makes you feel better about your boy, the rest of the world affixes the blame where it belongs.

Talk about Bullshit... Nice Evasion...

The Joint Authorization... Read it... Understand it... Stop Spreading Lies.



peace...

 

[geauxtohell]

Spare me the bullshit. Bush was the POTUS, he established foreign policy, it was his decision to make.

Congress is guilty of being stupid. Bush is guilty of being strategically retarded.

You can pass the buck if it makes you feel better about your boy, the rest of the world affixes the blame where it belongs.

Talk about Bullshit... Nice Evasion...

The Joint Authorization... Read it... Understand it... Stop Spreading Lies.



peace...

LMAO. Holding Bush responsible for his dismal foreign policy is a "lie".

Like I said, deflect the blame from your boy to the best of your ability. No one is buying it.

More succinctly: Hillary Clinton wasn't the CINC when we went into Iraq.

 

[geauxtohell]

Spare me the bullshit. Bush was the POTUS, he established foreign policy, it was his decision to make.

Congress is guilty of being stupid. Bush is guilty of being strategically retarded.

You can pass the buck if it makes you feel better about your boy, the rest of the world affixes the blame where it belongs.

Talk about Bullshit... Nice Evasion...

The Joint Authorization... Read it... Understand it... Stop Spreading Lies.



peace...

Additionally, if you believe we can't negotiate with "Islamists", why have you been a six year cheerleader for an interventionalist foreign policy that seeks to build ties with the moderate factions of the Islamic world?

 

[PoliticalChic]

More than you, apparently. And gee, not one tried to force me to convert or die. I'm waiting your report on the actual number of forced conversions and death

Sadly, you are the perfect example of a political perspective without the benefit of knowledge.

In Egypt, Two Coptic Activists Arrested
The MEMRI Blog- August 10, 2007

Christians Fleeing Violence in Iraq
Associated Press- Fox News- May 7, 2007

The Big Christian Exodus From the Middle East
Hussein Shobokshi- Assyrian International News Agency- January 11, 2007

A Christian Exodus From the Arab World
Amira El Ahl, Daniel Steinvorth, Volkhard Windfuhr and Bernhard Zand- Assyrian International News Agency- January 11, 2007

A Christian Exodus from the Arab World
Amira El Ahl, Daniel Steinvorth, Volkhard Windfuhr and Bernhard Zand- Spiegel Online International- January 10, 2007

CSI Highlights Plight of Persecuted Christians in Syria, Other Mideast Nations
Allie Martin- Agape Press- January 3, 2007

Arab Christians as Symbol: Disappearing Christians of the Middle East
Hilal Khashan- Middle East Quarterly- Winter 2001

All My staff at the Church Have Been Killed - They Disappeared
Stephen Farrell- Times Online- December 26, 2006

Countdown for Christians in Syria
Christian Solidarity International- December 25, 2006

The Christian Exodus and Lahoud's Fate Central to Maronite Bishops' Appeal
Yousef Hourany- AsiaNews.it- December 25, 2006

Coptic Patriarch in Retreat to Protest Anti-Christian Discrimination
AsiaNews.it- December 25, 2006

The Arab Christians of the Middle East: A Demographic Perspective
Philippe Fargues- Oxford University Press- December 25, 2006

The Arab Christians
Newsdesk.org - December 24, 2006

Vanishing Christians of the Mideast
Gregory Katz- Houston Chronicle- December 24, 2006

Lebanon Violence Forces Christian TV Network to Cancel Events
Jennifer Riley - The Christian Post- December 8, 2006

In Lebanon, A Crisis for Christians
Nicholas Blanford- The Christian Science Monitor- November 28, 2006

International Christian Concern Weekly News Update
International Christian Concern- November 2, 2006

International Christian Concern Weekly News Update
International Christian Concern- October 27, 2006

Muslims attack Christians in Henno, Ethiopia
International Christian Concern- October 24, 2006

International Christian Concern Weekly News Update
International Christian Concern- October 24, 2006

International Christian Concern Weekly News Update
International Christian Concern- October 13, 2006

'In 20 Years, There Will Be No More Christians in Iraq'
The Guardian- October 6, 2006

Persecution of Christians Pervasive Across the Muslim World
Lisa Jones- Christian Freedom International- October 6, 2006

Open Doors Warns of Increasing Attacks Against Iraq's Christian Community
Daniel Blake- Christian Post- October 5, 2006

Al-Qaida No. 2 urges Pope, Christians to convert to Islam
The Associated Press and Haaretz Service- Haaretz - October 3, 2006

Open Doors Warns of Increasing Attacks Against Iraq’s Christian Community
Daniel Blake- Christian Today- October 3, 2006

The Forgotten Christian
AMNON RUBINSTEIN- The New York Sun- October 3, 2006

International Christian Concern Weekly News Update
International Christian Concern- September 29, 2006

Al-Qaeda threatens jihad over Pope's remarks
Jenny Booth and agencies- Times Online- September 19, 2006

Tensions still high over pope's remarks
THE JERUSALEM POST - September 19, 2006

Pope Remarks Worry Mideast Christians
Anna Johnson - Associated Press- September 18, 2006

Growing Christian-Muslim Divisions Worry Mideast Believers
Nadia Abou El-Magd - The Christian Post- September 18, 2006

International Christian Concern Weekly News Update
International Christian Concern- September 15, 2006

Cardinal Pleads for Rights
Barney Zwartz- www.fairfax.com.au- September 1, 2006

Hezbollah is Using Christian Villages to Shield its Military Operations in Violation of International Law
Rev. Dr. Keith Roderick- July, 2006

International Christian Concern Weekly News Update
International Christian Concern- August 4, 2006

International Christian Concern Weekly News Update
International Christian Concern- July 21, 2006

International Christian Concern Weekly News Update
International Christian Concern Weekly News Update- July 14, 2006

International Christian Concern Weekly News Update
International Christian Concern Weekly News Update- July 11, 2006

Persecution of Christians on the Rise
Wolfgang Polzer- ASSIST News Service- July 5, 2006

The Vatican Confronts Islam
Daniel Pipes - FrontPageMagazine.com- July 5, 2006

International Christian Concern Weekly News Update
International Christian Concern- June 30, 2006

Pakistan: Woman Raped for Leaving Islam
www.crosswalk.com- June 27, 2006

International Christian Concern Weekly News Update
International Christian Concern- June 23, 2006

Open Doors Wonders: Is Mistreatment of Believers in India Being Ignored?
Editorial Staff- crosswalk.com- May 31, 2006

Jerusalem is the key to solving Mideast problems, says Patriarch Sabbah
Youssef Hourany- www.asianews.it- May 23, 2006

Eritrea Jails Three More Orthodox Church Leaders
Editorial Staff- Crosswalk.com - May 23, 2006

Christians in Lebanon See Hopes, Numbers Diminish
Edward Yeranian- The Christian Science Monitor - May 9, 1997

Where Christianity faces a fight to survive
Isambard Wilkinson- Isambard Wilkinson- April 28, 2006

And your proposed solution is?

Any religion can be what its coreligionists make of it. Until congregants emphasize Sura 2:256, over the more atavistic verses, until life on earth is celebrated over death, and they reinterpret the blood-thristy aspects of the religion, it will remain reviled, hated and feared, and will be the dead-end, pun intended, on the road to utopia.

 

[geauxtohell]

[
Any religion can be what its coreligionists make of it. Until congregants emphasize Sura 2:256, over the more atavistic verses, until life on earth is celebrated over death, and they reinterpret the blood-thristy aspects of the religion, it will remain reviled, hated and feared, and will be the dead-end, pun intended, on the road to utopia.

If you think violence and forced conversion is inherent to Islam, how can it be anything other than what you claim it is?

And what exactly is your point?

I mean, change from a religion comes from within. The reformation came about due to a schism within the Catholic Church, not from outside pressure.

So are you just going to hate Islam until they change themselves in a manner you deem acceptable?

 

[mal]

Additionally, if you believe we can't negotiate with "Islamists", why have you been a six year cheerleader for an interventionalist foreign policy that seeks to build ties with the moderate factions of the Islamic world?

Because I Welcome any Muslims who want to Build Ties to the Western and Non-15th Century World...

The rest are in Dire Need of a Catholic Style Reformation.

Aren't the Catholics a lot more Fun now?...



peace...

 

[mal]

Any religion can be what its coreligionists make of it. Until congregants emphasize Sura 2:256, over the more atavistic verses, until life on earth is celebrated over death, and they reinterpret the blood-thristy aspects of the religion, it will remain reviled, hated and feared, and will be the dead-end, pun intended, on the road to utopia.

Will you Stop Accurately Observing what they Preach!...

You will Confuse the Liberals!

They are Predominantly a Religion of Peace, Love and World Harmony where EVERYONE can Practice Beliefs of their Choosing, or Not at all, and who can Live whatever Lifestyle they want without Fear of being Executed by the State for Choosing other than what the Theocracy Allows regarding any number things, from Sexual Relations to Dressware outside of your Prison, err, I Mean "Home".



peace...

 

[geauxtohell]

Additionally, if you believe we can't negotiate with "Islamists", why have you been a six year cheerleader for an interventionalist foreign policy that seeks to build ties with the moderate factions of the Islamic world?

Because I Welcome any Muslims who want to Build Ties to the Western and Non-15th Century World...

The rest are in Dire Need of a Catholic Style Reformation.

Aren't the Catholics a lot more Fun now?...



peace...

So you believe we can negotiate with Islamists and have a good idea of where to start?

You just answered your OP.

 

[PixieStix]

Can someone tell me where the Middle Ground is with the Islamists?...

The want Conversion or Death...

Pretty much Death to all of the Jews...

So where do we Start with the Negotiations?...

Half the Jews and 1/4 of all other Westerners?...

Will that Satisfy them?...

Any Thoughts?



peace...

The middle ground is dhimmitude , pay them their thug money and stay out of sight and don't post pics of mohammed and all is cool, until you die then you get to go to hell with all the others, who BTW mohammed says was filled with 90 percent women

 

[mal]

Additionally, if you believe we can't negotiate with "Islamists", why have you been a six year cheerleader for an interventionalist foreign policy that seeks to build ties with the moderate factions of the Islamic world?

Because I Welcome any Muslims who want to Build Ties to the Western and Non-15th Century World...

The rest are in Dire Need of a Catholic Style Reformation.

Aren't the Catholics a lot more Fun now?...



peace...

So you believe we can negotiate with Islamists and have a good idea of where to start?

You just answered your OP.

I didn't Use the Word "Negotiate"... I said I am Open to Muslims who want to Build Ties to the Western and Non-15th Century World...

Was that Unclear?...

I am not about Sympathizing, nor Catering to the Oppressive, Male-Centered, Animalistic ways of that Culture any longer...

Innoncent People outside of their Borders are Dying, including our own, and that Makes it OUR Business...

Those who Support, Fund, Harbor or Sympathize with these Fucking Animals are AGAINST us, to Remind you of a Phrase that I am Sure makes your Teeth Hurt to Read...

That Includes the Home of Mecca and the King that Barry Bows to.



peace...