nativity scenes...

[Aquarian]

In a dispute over display of holiday symbols, New York City schools are allowing Jewish menorahs and Islamic crescents but barring Christian nativity scenes, alleging the depiction of the birth of Christ does not represent a historical event.

Personally, I'm against things like school sponsored prayer and displaying religious icons in courthouses, but this is ridiculous. Especially since they are allowing menorah's and crescents (no mention of symbols for kwaanza), should be all or none.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=35544

 

[Dan]

I dunno, they say Christ's birth doesn't represent a historic event, I mean, I doubt there's many people that would doubt Christ exists, and what was so unbelievable about the way he was born?

I agree, though, if you're gonna get rid of one, get rid of 'em all.

 

[janeeng]

The nativity scene has been for many many years, now we need to ban this? that's pretty sad! We can have jewish and Arab and whatever else, but nothing to reflect the birth of Christ!!! amazing, whether people say it's the true birth or not, I happen to keep it as that day, and I do tell my Children this as well - that Christmas is not just about presents, but it is the Birthday of Christ - some things truly amaze me!!!! I am sure Catholic Church's and anything to do with the word God will be banned...truly a SAD thing.

 

[eric]

Janeen, I could not agree with you more!

 

[eric]

Janeen, I could not agree with you more!

Look I see this in a very simple way. If you are religious then you might feel very strongly about prayer, symbols, and the like. If you do not believe, then it is easy to just ignore them.

If I was not religious, and I saw a Bible on someone's desk at work, I would ignore it, maybe even think to myself that the person is wasting their time, but it would cause me no harm.

Now if you are a religious person, as I am, being denied the right to have a Bible at work, and find comfort during stressful times, is harmful !

Just my two cents.

 

[janeeng]

Thanks eric! I may not go to Church every Sunday, but I do believe in God and Jesus, and I don't think it's right to take away the symbol, but ok for Jewish and Arabs - something not right here! Someone once said "how did God all 9/11 and all those people to die"? well, think about it, everything in the word of God is taken away from people, worship, prayer, don't mention him, take away nativity, etc... We are told just ask God for help, pray, this and that, but when it's now against policies and everday life, there is no asking anymore - so how is it that God should have prevented 9/11??? His name has been taken away from people and I only wonder what the future will hold!!!

 

[Moi]

is what I think the people banning nativity scenes are. I don't believe in God nor do I believe the bible is history but come on, if you have one holiday (think St. Valentine's Day!) how can you ban others. Don't get me wrong, I think having as much fluff as we have in schools is wrong- financially, socially and educationally. Children are in school to be educated not celebrate holidays, religious or secular. Banning catholic and/or Christian things will only backfire on them. If you expose them to all sorts of beliefs it will only increase their tolerance not turn them into Catholics (or Kwanzaa followers or Jewish people or whatever).

 

[Dan]

Eric, as someone who doesn't believe in God, I totally agree with your post. It seems to me, people who don't believe in Christ or his divinity shouldn't really care whether the nativity scenes are there or not, they're not hurting them. It would do more damage to take them away than to just leave them there.

And alledging that Islam and Judaism is fine, but Christianity isn't good because there's no factual evidence to the nativity scene is just retarded. I defy anyone to find a theology, other than atheism or agonism, that does not at some point force people to rely on faith.

 

[eric]

Eric, as someone who doesn't believe in God, I totally agree with your post. It seems to me, people who don't believe in Christ or his divinity shouldn't really care whether the nativity scenes are there or not, they're not hurting them. It would do more damage to take them away than to just leave them there

Dan, thank you for your reasonable stance on this issue. My feeling is if discussions and dialogue were done in this manner, agreement between people would be much eaiser to reach. I am not saying this because of your agreement with my post, but rather the fact that you did not argue a point just for the sole reason of disagreement, which seems to be in vogue today. This in turn makes me more reasonable about the issue and more willing to work with people to reach a compromise.

Dan I want to also say that I respect everyone's opinion, whether I feel it is right or wrong, and I would never attempt to sway someone into a religious belief by words, symbols, or action. If I place a nativity scene on my lawn, it is for Me and anyone else who cares to appreciate it, I certainly do not put it there to convert people.

You know Dan, there was a time when I was very unsure of my faith, the funny thing is, it was not outward symbols or someone's words that changed this, but on the contrary, it was the study of physics, cosmology, and meditation that incited this change in me, and brought me to a deeper understanding and faith. This show that religious influence can come from many sources, not just a christmas tree in school.

 

[X.P. Alidocious]

Personally, I'm against things like school sponsored prayer and displaying religious icons in courthouses, but this is ridiculous. Especially since they are allowing menorah's and crescents (no mention of symbols for kwaanza), should be all or none.

That's a view quite in keeping with the constitution, and my own
is quite similar - although I have no problem with displaying religious icons in a courthouse.

There are two things we have to consider in regard to religion
and the government. The establishment clause and the free excercise clause.

The government must allow people to practice their religion
where it does not interfere with other basic rights (human sacrifice doesn't work), and it must not establish a national
religion. That means, in theory, that it can't force anyone to take religious action, and that it may not fund one religious sect more
than it funds another.

So school sponsored prayer is probably not constitutional
and banning school prayer probably isn't either.

Oh well. The courts have become so silly with this, that they
believe having the right ratios of Santas to Marys is the key
to making things constitutional.

 

[5stringJeff]

I think it's been pretty well said... either allow all religious symbols, or don't allow any. But allowing some, but not others, as is the case here, is clearly a First Amendment violation.