National Healthcare Basics

[DGS49]

National healthcare systems thrive for three things: Universality (everyone covered, more or less equally), quality, and low cost.

You can only achieve two, never three.

If you achieve universality and low cost, quality suffers (Cuba).

If you achieve high quality and universality (more or less), cost is breathtakingly high (U.S.).

If you achieve low cost and high quality, only a limited number of people have access.

Leftists in the U.S. demand universality and high quality (which we have, due to market-driven innovation), but think it can be financed with Other Peoples' Money.

Ain't happening. Everyone who even has a job will have to pay a shitload...which is O'Care.

 

[Freewill]

What is your proposal to healthcare cost escalating to where people can not afford the premiums. For a lot of folks that is already the reality.

No matter who provides health care insurance the cost of medical care is skyrocketing, why is that?

 

[forkup]

National healthcare systems thrive for three things: Universality (everyone covered, more or less equally), quality, and low cost.

You can only achieve two, never three.

If you achieve universality and low cost, quality suffers (Cuba).

If you achieve high quality and universality (more or less), cost is breathtakingly high (U.S.).

If you achieve low cost and high quality, only a limited number of people have access.

Leftists in the U.S. demand universality and high quality (which we have, due to market-driven innovation), but think it can be financed with Other Peoples' Money.

Ain't happening. Everyone who even has a job will have to pay a shitload...which is O'Care.

Wrong. I live in Belgium. We have universal, high quality, for a little less than half the cost of your system. List of countries by total health expenditure per capita - Wikipedia

 

[Cellblock2429]

What is your proposal to healthcare cost escalating to where people can not afford the premiums. For a lot of folks that is already the reality.

No matter who provides health care insurance the cost of medical care is skyrocketing, why is that?

/---- Tort Reform for starters. Read alll about it: Home - ATRA

 

[Anathema]

DGS49, you left out one major problem with UHC here in the United Ststes... It's illegal and unconstitutional at the Federal level, and likely so in most states.

 

[dblack]

What is your proposal to healthcare cost escalating to where people can not afford the premiums. For a lot of folks that is already the reality.

No matter who provides health care insurance the cost of medical care is skyrocketing, why is that?

Insurance.

 

[Freewill]

What is your proposal to healthcare cost escalating to where people can not afford the premiums. For a lot of folks that is already the reality.

No matter who provides health care insurance the cost of medical care is skyrocketing, why is that?

Insurance.

Link?

 

[Freewill]

DGS49, you left out one major problem with UHC here in the United Ststes... It's illegal and unconstitutional at the Federal level, and likely so in most states.

What law makes UHC illegal any more so then medicare or medicaid?

What part of the Constitution is violated?

 

[Freewill]

What is your proposal to healthcare cost escalating to where people can not afford the premiums. For a lot of folks that is already the reality.

No matter who provides health care insurance the cost of medical care is skyrocketing, why is that?

/---- Tort Reform for starters. Read alll about it: Home - ATRA

tort reform lowering cost is a pipe dream in my opinion.

Would Tort Reform Lower Costs?

 

[dblack]

What is your proposal to healthcare cost escalating to where people can not afford the premiums. For a lot of folks that is already the reality.

No matter who provides health care insurance the cost of medical care is skyrocketing, why is that?

Insurance.

Link?

You've never heard of insurance?

 

[Anathema]

What law makes UHC illegal any more so then medicare or medicaid?

What part of the Constitution is violated?

The saame poart that Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, etc... violate: Article I, Section 8 and the 10th Amendment.

 

[Freewill]

What is your proposal to healthcare cost escalating to where people can not afford the premiums. For a lot of folks that is already the reality.

No matter who provides health care insurance the cost of medical care is skyrocketing, why is that?

Insurance.

Link?

You've never heard of insurance?

How is insurance going to solve the large increase in health care costs? It isn't working today why would more be better? Consider that they now have a captive set of customers. customers who if they don't buy the health insurance's product will be penalized, almost no incentive to reduce cost.

 

[Freewill]

What law makes UHC illegal any more so then medicare or medicaid?

What part of the Constitution is violated?

The saame poart that Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, etc... violate: Article I, Section 8 and the 10th Amendment.

Are you arguing that Medicare and Medicaid not specifically mentioned are not "in the general welfare" of those who receive those benefits? If so then there are lots of stuff that needs dropped from the federal government, this I agree. BUT just saying it is not specifically mentioned does not make it unconstitutional, in my opinion. The Internet is not specifically mentioned but there are plenty of federal laws and taxes covering the Internet.

What makes Obamacare unconstitutional, in my opinion, is the origination clause which is pretty clear that bills will originate in the House not the Senate or WH. It seems pretty clear that Obamacare is in violation. But since it has already gone to the SCOTUS that challenge may already have been answered. Besides, if the repeal and replace were to go through then it did originate in the House, thus that argument is gone forever.

 

[dblack]

What is your proposal to healthcare cost escalating to where people can not afford the premiums. For a lot of folks that is already the reality.

No matter who provides health care insurance the cost of medical care is skyrocketing, why is that?

Insurance.

Link?

You've never heard of insurance?

How is insurance going to solve the large increase in health care costs? It isn't working today why would more be better? Consider that they now have a captive set of customers. customers who if they don't buy the health insurance's product will be penalized, almost no incentive to reduce cost.

Sorry. Guess I wasn't as clear as I thought.

I was answering the second question, "...the cost of medical care is skyrocketing, why is that?"

The answer is: Insurance. Or, to be more precise, our abuse of insurance; abuse promoted by ill-conceived state policy.

 

[Anathema]

Are you arguing that Medicare and Medicaid not specifically mentioned are not "in the general welfare" of those who receive those benefits? If so then there are lots of stuff that needs dropped from the federal government, this I agree. BUT just saying it is not specifically mentioned does not make it unconstitutional, in my opinion. The Internet is not specifically mentioned but there are plenty of federal laws and taxes covering the Internet.

I am staying thst healthcare is noit mentioned in the Constitution anbd therefore like Education, Energy, Housing, etc... these are st bestStste issues, not Federal ones as none of them impact the general welfare of the NATION, but rather the welfare of its citizens.

 

[Freewill]

What is your proposal to healthcare cost escalating to where people can not afford the premiums. For a lot of folks that is already the reality.

No matter who provides health care insurance the cost of medical care is skyrocketing, why is that?

Insurance.

Link?

You've never heard of insurance?

How is insurance going to solve the large increase in health care costs? It isn't working today why would more be better? Consider that they now have a captive set of customers. customers who if they don't buy the health insurance's product will be penalized, almost no incentive to reduce cost.

Sorry. Guess I wasn't as clear as I thought.

I was answering the second question, "...the cost of medical care is skyrocketing, why is that?"

The answer is: Insurance. Or, to be more precise, our abuse of insurance; abuse promoted by ill-conceived state policy.

So, the price of insurance is driven by the price of insurance?

So what is the answer? Cut everyone from insurance which would mean outlawing insurance all together? My wife's doctored demanded a check before he would operate. 2000 dollars and the operation took no more then 3 hours, if that. He did three operations that I know of before 1 pm. How do you think insurance effected that price?

 

[Freewill]

Are you arguing that Medicare and Medicaid not specifically mentioned are not "in the general welfare" of those who receive those benefits? If so then there are lots of stuff that needs dropped from the federal government, this I agree. BUT just saying it is not specifically mentioned does not make it unconstitutional, in my opinion. The Internet is not specifically mentioned but there are plenty of federal laws and taxes covering the Internet.

I am staying thst healthcare is noit mentioned in the Constitution anbd therefore like Education, Energy, Housing, etc... these are st bestStste issues, not Federal ones as none of them impact the general welfare of the NATION, but rather the welfare of its citizens.

Then Roe vs Wade should have never been heard by the SCOTUS.

Along with Gay marriage

Along with Dred Scott

All state issues because they are not mentioned in the COTUS.

 

[Anathema]

Then Roe vs Wade should have never been heard by the SCOTUS.

Along with Gay marriage

Along with Dred Scott

All state issues because they are not mentioned in the COTUS.

100% correct. Oh, and Mr Lincoln's little War of Northern Aggression was illegitimate as well.

 

[BuckToothMoron]

What is your proposal to healthcare cost escalating to where people can not afford the premiums. For a lot of folks that is already the reality.

No matter who provides health care insurance the cost of medical care is skyrocketing, why is that?

I have a suggestion, but many people, maybe people like you, won't like it. Take responsibility for your own health. That means eat good food, not fast food crap, exercise, and don't smoke or abuse drugs. Many Americans don't want to do those things. People go to the doctor, doctor tells them they have high cholesterol, doctor tells them they can start exercising, stop eating the crap that has caused their cholesterol to rise, a strait eating healthier; or he can give them a prescription for a drug to lower their cholesterol with a bunch of adverse side affects. 9 out of ten take the prescription. They don't want to be responsible for their healthcare. How many posters on this board are taking prescription meds? 90% of those Rx are because of life style choices that you can control.

 

[Darkwind]

Insurance.

Link?

You've never heard of insurance?

How is insurance going to solve the large increase in health care costs? It isn't working today why would more be better? Consider that they now have a captive set of customers. customers who if they don't buy the health insurance's product will be penalized, almost no incentive to reduce cost.

Sorry. Guess I wasn't as clear as I thought.

I was answering the second question, "...the cost of medical care is skyrocketing, why is that?"

The answer is: Insurance. Or, to be more precise, our abuse of insurance; abuse promoted by ill-conceived state policy.

So, the price of insurance is driven by the price of insurance?

So what is the answer? Cut everyone from insurance which would mean outlawing insurance all together? My wife's doctored demanded a check before he would operate. 2000 dollars and the operation took no more then 3 hours, if that. He did three operations that I know of before 1 pm. How do you think insurance effected that price?

Do you understand the concept of deep pockets?

Insurance companies collect large sums of money. Medical costs rise to meet those large piles of cash. It is the very reason you don't see large law suits against individuals but against corporations.