National Debt

[Charles_Main]

Why does it not bother more of you that over 25% of all the Debt this Nation has accumulated in its HISTORY. Has been accumulated in the last 25 Months.

Why are Democrats able to keep laying the blame for this at Republicans Feet, when In fact Democrats have been in control of Congress for that entire time.

When will we all stop playing blame games and realize Both Parties are guilty, and our current direction is leading to bankruptcy?

 

[Peejay]

It sucks. It's upsetting. Destroy the Federal Reserve. What else can I tell you ? I wrote my congressmen about my thoughts on the first 30 billion last year. Then 50 billion. Then 700 billion. The another 700 billion and change. I don't know what else I can do except plant the garden early and make sure the chickens are fed. If the militia comes calling I'll consider joining up. Until then, I'm just trying to survive.

 

[Charles_Main]

It sucks. It's upsetting. Destroy the Federal Reserve. What else can I tell you ? I wrote my congressmen about my thoughts on the first 30 billion last year. Then 50 billion. Then 700 billion. The another 700 billion and change. I don't know what else I can do except plant the garden early and make sure the chickens are fed. If the militia comes calling I'll consider joining up. Until then, I'm just trying to survive.

What I do not understand is this. If it was Bush, and Republicans in Congress spending like this. We would hear no end to the Media stories, and Politicians railing against it.

It seems the Dems just get a free pass from most people, and media outlets. Clearly many of their supporters on this MB have conveniently lost their anti Deficit spending Zeal all of the sudden. They Screamed for years about a Half a Trillion we spent in Iraq, and are silent as Democrats spend many times faster. Not surprising since these are the same people who railed about that half Billion spent in Iraq, and were silent about what the other 4.5 Trillion Bush spent, was spent on.

Very frustrating.

 

[Chris]

We are losing 500,000 jobs a month.

The National Debt to GDP ratio is less than it was during the Truman administration.

Reagan and Bush showed that Americans don't care about the National Debt.

 

[Charles_Main]

We are losing 500,000 jobs a month.

The National Debt to GDP ratio is less than it was during the Truman administration.

Reagan and Bush showed that Americans don't care about the National Debt.

Just because Reagan and Bush did it, does not mean Democrats should continue it.

Don't you think?

And Polls by the way show you are dead wrong about how Americans feel about our Debt. It is apparent they are growing more and more aware, and concerned about it.

As we accumulated more and more debt, they will be more and more concerned as the Negative Effects of it are felt more and more.

Currently America is like a Family with an income of 150,000 a year who is in debt 1.1 Million Dollars, and who's yearly expenses are about 200 to 250 thousand dollars a year. There can be no doubt our current direction is unsustainable.

 

[Chris]

We are losing 500,000 jobs a month.

The National Debt to GDP ratio is less than it was during the Truman administration.

Reagan and Bush showed that Americans don't care about the National Debt.

Just because Reagan and Bush did it, does not mean Democrats should continue it.

Don't you think?

And Polls by the way show you are dead wrong about how Americans feel about our Debt. It is apparent they are growing more and more aware, and concerned about it.

As we accumulated more and more debt, they will be more and more concerned as the Negative Effects of it are felt more and more.

Currently America is like a Family with an income of 150,000 a year who is in debt 1.1 Million Dollars, and who's yearly expenses are about 200 to 250 thousand dollars a year. There can be no doubt our current direction is unsustainable.

I agree with you to a large extent, but right now we really are facing an emergency.

We need to pump the system, reregulate the markets, and restore confidence. Then we can try to lower spending and debt.

 

[Meister]

We are losing 500,000 jobs a month.

The National Debt to GDP ratio is less than it was during the Truman administration.

Reagan and Bush showed that Americans don't care about the National Debt.

Just because Reagan and Bush did it, does not mean Democrats should continue it.

Don't you think?

And Polls by the way show you are dead wrong about how Americans feel about our Debt. It is apparent they are growing more and more aware, and concerned about it.

As we accumulated more and more debt, they will be more and more concerned as the Negative Effects of it are felt more and more.

Currently America is like a Family with an income of 150,000 a year who is in debt 1.1 Million Dollars, and who's yearly expenses are about 200 to 250 thousand dollars a year. There can be no doubt our current direction is unsustainable.

I agree with you to a large extent, but right now we really are facing an emergency.

We need to pump the system, reregulate the markets, and restore confidence. Then we can try to lower spending and debt.

I see Chris your in lock step with the democratic socialists of the country. Pumping the system, has never worked before, and isn't going to work this time. Just the way they dibbied up the bill will see to the failure. If you call nationalizing the banks as reregulating, I would have to say this is not a very sound way to lead our country out of a recession. To have Obama come out and give a speech that has the word "crisis' 25 times in it is not going to restore American confidence.

 

[Charles_Main]

We need to pump the system, reregulate the markets, and restore confidence. Then we can try to lower spending and debt.

That would make sense Chris, if the Stimulus Bill was a targeted, and temporary fix, However it is not. Most of the spending does not even happen for 3 years or more. That is not a stimulus Chris, no matter how many times they say it is. This is a spending bill, that may indeed give us some short term help, but the long term costs will cancel our any Temporary gain.

In short it is window Dressing, It is a feel good Bill where we are trading Long Term Serious Problems for a short term Gain.

I am a firm believer that nearly 50% of every Dollar the government spends is wasted. That is why I am so against government solutions to problems. It is just so damn inefficient.

This Bill is the single largest spending bill in our history, and we can be assured there will be abuses, and corruption on a scale never seen before as this money is spent.

Not to mention this Bill, and the Mortgage bail out, and the Next stimulus they are talking about, are all putting the very idea of making any changes to our health care system into Doubt.

Obama is not an Idiot. I know he knows there simply will not be money for many of his Ideas, so you have to ask yourself how wise it is to basically squander this money for what will amount to a short term gain, with major long term negative effects.

Besides Chris If they keep spending like this, your Reagan Bush debt web site is going to lose its meaning.

After all about 3 Trillion or 30% of our over all Debt, has been accumulated in the last 2 years, when I am sure you are Aware Democrats controlled congress. If this keeps up, in 4 years I will be able to counter your ReaganbushDebt.org Web site with one that shows how Obama added more to the Debt in 4 Years than Bush did in 8.

This is the scariest time I can remember as an American, Part of why it is so scary to me, is because today there is no party, and no politicians, On either side. Talking about Cutting spending, or balancing anything. They all seem to think just like you do, that Deficit spending can solve problems. I would have thought we would have learned from Reagan and Bush that that simply is not the case.

 

[Chris]

Charles,

The tax cuts and tax credits take place immediately and they account for 40% of the package. I am already seeing effects from the $8,000 homebuyers tax credit.

 

[Meister]

Charles,

The tax cuts and tax credits take place immediately and they account for 40% of the package. I am already seeing effects from the $8,000 homebuyers tax credit.

Is that a short term effect, or a long term effect? Be honest.

 

[Charles_Main]

Charles,

The tax cuts and tax credits take place immediately and they account for 40% of the package. I am already seeing effects from the $8,000 homebuyers tax credit.

As will I Chris, but you just said it. Only 40% of this Bill will have an immediate effect. The Vast majority of the rest of it will not be spent until 2011 to 2014. So once again I have to ask, how is that a targeted and timely stimulus to our immediate economic problems?

The Answer is it is not.

 

[Charles_Main]

Charles,

The tax cuts and tax credits take place immediately and they account for 40% of the package. I am already seeing effects from the $8,000 homebuyers tax credit.

Most Americans will see a one time 400 dollar check, and an average monthly savings of 65 Bucks a month. according to Democrats.

Now tell me, how does 65 Dollars a month help when the value of the Dollar will be driven down and inflation of prices will eat up that 65 Bucks and then some.

Where are we going to borrow this money from? Or are we just going to print it?

 

[Charles_Main]

edit

 

[Peejay]

It sucks. It's upsetting. Destroy the Federal Reserve. What else can I tell you ? I wrote my congressmen about my thoughts on the first 30 billion last year. Then 50 billion. Then 700 billion. The another 700 billion and change. I don't know what else I can do except plant the garden early and make sure the chickens are fed. If the militia comes calling I'll consider joining up. Until then, I'm just trying to survive.

What I do not understand is this. If it was Bush, and Republicans in Congress spending like this. We would hear no end to the Media stories, and Politicians railing against it.

It seems the Dems just get a free pass from most people, and media outlets. Clearly many of their supporters on this MB have conveniently lost their anti Deficit spending Zeal all of the sudden. They Screamed for years about a Half a Trillion we spent in Iraq, and are silent as Democrats spend many times faster. Not surprising since these are the same people who railed about that half Billion spent in Iraq, and were silent about what the other 4.5 Trillion Bush spent, was spent on.

Very frustrating.

You know, until the several folks who ignored subpoenas and walked away with no repercusions get some kind of punishment, I don't give a rat's ass who gets a pass from the media. Without getting into any guess work or accusations, I can tell you that at least five people walked away from subpoenas and did not get punished. In fact, when citizens attempted to effect arrest, the criminals were protected by the police. Now, I don't have to wonder who said what or what crimes might have happened behind closed doors. In front of the entire country, without any doubt, at least five people refused to appear by subpoena. Try that yourself and let me know how it works out.

And you have the nerve to talk about a media pass ? Wake up man. The democrats won. Now they get to use all the expanded powers of the executive branch as the legacy of the Bush years. Doesn't make it right. It just is. Live with it. Or whine about it. Won't change a thing except your sunny disposition.

 

[Neubarth]

.... and our current direction is leading to bankruptcy?

Chill Charley! Damn man, ya gonna have a heart attack gettin' all stressed out like that.

Did you know that the value of our natural resources is ab out 100 Trillion dollars. If we stop giving them away ans sell them, we can wipe out the national debt that persently exists and eliminate any national debt for the next hundred years. We have no problem.

 

[Neubarth]

We need to pump the system, reregulate the markets, and restore confidence. Then we can try to lower spending and debt.

That would make sense Chris, if the Stimulus Bill was a targeted, and temporary fix, However it is not. Most of the spending does not even happen for 3 years or more. That is not a stimulus Chris, no matter how many times they say it is. This is a spending bill, that may indeed give us some short term help, but the long term costs will cancel our any Temporary gain....

This is the scariest time I can remember as an American, ....

Chill Charley! Damn, man ya gonna have a heart attack. Lighten up. The reality is that 90% or more of the spending bill is for projects that the states and cities already had on their project list. They could not do them because of revenue shortfalls, so the Federal Government is now footing the bill. This really isn't increased spending. It is the same projects that were originally going to be done in this time frame funded by another source.

The sad thing is that all we are trying to do is hold back a tidal wave with a hastily shoveled loose dirt birm. I don't think it is going to work. We need to do these projects and about one trillion dollars more of Make Work.

We are not doing enough to stop the collapse of the world's economy. It is not just our house of cards that is falling down

 

[Meister]

We need to pump the system, reregulate the markets, and restore confidence. Then we can try to lower spending and debt.

That would make sense Chris, if the Stimulus Bill was a targeted, and temporary fix, However it is not. Most of the spending does not even happen for 3 years or more. That is not a stimulus Chris, no matter how many times they say it is. This is a spending bill, that may indeed give us some short term help, but the long term costs will cancel our any Temporary gain....

This is the scariest time I can remember as an American, ....

Chill Charley! Damn, man ya gonna have a heart attack. Lighten up. The reality is that 90% or more of the spending bill is for projects that the states and cities already had on their project list. They could not do them because of revenue shortfalls, so the Federal Government is now footing the bill. This really isn't increased spending. It is the same projects that were originally going to be done in this time frame funded by another source.

The sad thing is that all we are trying to do is hold back a tidal wave with a hastily shoveled loose dirt birm. I don't think it is going to work. We need to do these projects and about one trillion dollars more of Make Work.

We are not doing enough to stop the collapse of the world's economy. It is not just our house of cards that is falling down[/QUOTE

Really? 90%, or more?? I guess I've been looking at this a little differently. This is to stimulate the economy by producing jobs. Have you looked through the bill its self? A lot of this is just social pork...much more than just the 10% that you have left over. A lot of citiy governments are not accepting the money because of the strings that are attached to this bill. They're afraid that they won't be able to afford the "strings" after the funds have run out.
Which brings me to another point...Obama is really playing down the economy. He mentions how the lending institutions are in dire straits..right? Back in the years 1989-1991 do you know how many lending institutions went out of business??? I bet you don't...I sure didn't. Over 700 went out of business in those years. I bet you never heard of the dire straits we were in back then did you?? I sure didn't, I believe Obama is making this as bleak as he can so when this recession runs its normal coarse, he will say "there, I am the messiah." Why else would he use the word "crisis" 25 times in one speech??

 

[Charles_Main]

That would make sense Chris, if the Stimulus Bill was a targeted, and temporary fix, However it is not. Most of the spending does not even happen for 3 years or more. That is not a stimulus Chris, no matter how many times they say it is. This is a spending bill, that may indeed give us some short term help, but the long term costs will cancel our any Temporary gain....

This is the scariest time I can remember as an American, ....

Chill Charley! Damn, man ya gonna have a heart attack. Lighten up. The reality is that 90% or more of the spending bill is for projects that the states and cities already had on their project list. They could not do them because of revenue shortfalls, so the Federal Government is now footing the bill. This really isn't increased spending. It is the same projects that were originally going to be done in this time frame funded by another source.

First off that 90% figure is a made up fantasy.

second the Idea that these projects were already funded and this is not spending is a partisan day dream.

The states are even further in debt than the Fed.

These projects were on hold because the States could not afford them, so now the Fed instead of the States will go into Debt to Fund them.

You obviously have the Democrat talking points down good, but you have little grasp of the real situation at all.

 

[wimpy77]

We need to pump the system, reregulate the markets, and restore confidence. Then we can try to lower spending and debt.

That would make sense Chris, if the Stimulus Bill was a targeted, and temporary fix, However it is not. Most of the spending does not even happen for 3 years or more. That is not a stimulus Chris, no matter how many times they say it is. This is a spending bill, that may indeed give us some short term help, but the long term costs will cancel our any Temporary gain....

This is the scariest time I can remember as an American, ....

Chill Charley! Damn, man ya gonna have a heart attack. Lighten up. The reality is that 90% or more of the spending bill is for projects that the states and cities already had on their project list. They could not do them because of revenue shortfalls, so the Federal Government is now footing the bill. This really isn't increased spending. It is the same projects that were originally going to be done in this time frame funded by another source.

The sad thing is that all we are trying to do is hold back a tidal wave with a hastily shoveled loose dirt birm. I don't think it is going to work. We need to do these projects and about one trillion dollars more of Make Work.

We are not doing enough to stop the collapse of the world's economy. It is not just our house of cards that is falling down

neu a stimulus is not meant to be the sole answer to the problem. a stimulus is designed to help people weather the storm. its not meant to fix the problem by itself. to fix the problem they have got to get credit flowing again. that's the only thing that will fix the problem.

 

[Peejay]

That would make sense Chris, if the Stimulus Bill was a targeted, and temporary fix, However it is not. Most of the spending does not even happen for 3 years or more. That is not a stimulus Chris, no matter how many times they say it is. This is a spending bill, that may indeed give us some short term help, but the long term costs will cancel our any Temporary gain....

This is the scariest time I can remember as an American, ....

Chill Charley! Damn, man ya gonna have a heart attack. Lighten up. The reality is that 90% or more of the spending bill is for projects that the states and cities already had on their project list. They could not do them because of revenue shortfalls, so the Federal Government is now footing the bill. This really isn't increased spending. It is the same projects that were originally going to be done in this time frame funded by another source.

The sad thing is that all we are trying to do is hold back a tidal wave with a hastily shoveled loose dirt birm. I don't think it is going to work. We need to do these projects and about one trillion dollars more of Make Work.

We are not doing enough to stop the collapse of the world's economy. It is not just our house of cards that is falling down

neu a stimulus is not meant to be the sole answer to the problem. a stimulus is designed to help people weather the storm. its not meant to fix the problem by itself. to fix the problem they have got to get credit flowing again. that's the only thing that will fix the problem.

Credit flow is not the answer at all. In fact, it is the problem. The idea in itself suggest racking up more debt. That is no solution.

Without going through the whole usury spill, I will only say that the practice of turning profits by putting others into debt is a dead end road. Explain to me where the end is ? Where do the usury dollars come from ? Not in the form of the paper that notes are printed upon, but where do the actual goods come from that the notes represent ? How do you justify, better yet, actually produce usury dollars ? It's an extremely fundamental principle and there is a mountain of history that can teach you a lot about what happens with unchecked usury. For heavens sake, let's look at what's going on here. Nothing will be repaired for the long run until we look at the fundamentals that have to change. I'm not on the socialist wagon here, just looking at the adjustments to make our system work. Credit is surely needed but in very tight and limited markets. You can wager on risk all day but so long as money = power, you can bet that everyone gets to eat the risk of the few, in the end.

The prime example is the Fed. I've laid this out before. Let's start from zero. We are busted and need money. We ask this money of the Fed. We ask for 1 billion. We sell the Fed government bonds at interest, for 1 billion dollars. The Fed grants the money and 1 billion dollars is printed, minted and circulated. So, there is a billion dollars being traded around. Where, I ask you, is the INTEREST ? They don't print it. It does not exist. Any payments made back to the Fed simply feeds the overlords cash to live with, at our expense. Don't you guys understand that ? If they only give us 1 billion, how do we pay them back 1 billion + interest ? They control the notes. They will never print the interest money.

This is where the holes in Neubarth's theory are. Abvsolutely, we have resources above the debt. But the money doesn't exist to pay for them and the people who we owe it to will not allow the money to exist. That's the game. It's called usury.

Read the story of Jesus and the money changers. Not from a religious point of view, but from common sense. The money changers were in control of the notes. That was the whole deal.

There is less than 900 billion dollars of US currency in circulation. If we collected every dime of US currency and appled it to the national debt, it would barely make a dent. Not to mention we would immediately have to borrow more money from the reserve in order to have trade currency......maning more interest racked up to represent money that does not exist.

Another vicous force is deposit money. This is your checking, savings and CDs. You might deposit real money into these but that money is quickly doubled by the bank. The bank is allowed to create an almost equal amount to it's deposits. As soon as hard cash comes in, it is both recorded as existing in your account and the actual notes dispersed, nearly in it's entirity. The money now exist in two forms: cash and deposit. There are two representations of the same notes. The bank has created money from nothing, on which to draw interest from and do the same all over again.

Folks, the entire concept of trade in US currency is the biggest scam in human history. Until you understand that, you are working with a crooked deck.