Toronado3800
Gold Member
- Nov 15, 2009
- 7,608
- 560
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To those I debated with in the past I wish to make note my views on public stadium financing have changed. While being amazed at who is actually for it, I am now only slightly against public financing in general.
Things which have changed my mind include: reading a book which was against public stadium money, a review of the Reagan recovery, and some general economic theory work.
The book against public stadium money broke down the math fairly well. Especially football only stadiums are losers but many like ours in St Louis have SOME other purpose. All public stadiums should probably be baseball/football/convention I have decided.
The Reagan recover much like the New Deal was built on deficit spending. A large part of Reagan's money went to the military (like refitting the ship in my avatar), not a permanent directly tangible benefit for our economy like a power plant even. AND yes, the economy recovered on Reagan's credit card spending.
Which leads into the third point, while a stadium is a short sighted way to spend money compared to a road, power plant or school the money is spent in country and cycles once more before going to Malaysia via a pair of jeans I bought. Obviously interest on the bonds is a lost expense. On the deeper level subsidizing via public funds unfairly supports the NFL or MLB over their competition, a small business or my kid's junior team even for advertising dollars.
********
So remember
1 without your money the major sports leagues still do not have a viable business plan.
2 stadiums do not bring in much money.
- ticket sales largely come from home town folks. Instead of going to the bar or buying a DVD player or getting my kid a new pair of shoes or making the park field down the street nicer I am spending my money at the dome. No money generated there.
- yes money is brought in from out of city. Then again I am an American, not a City of St. Louisian, or Florissitonian, or Missourian. It does the country no overall good for St Louis to take money away from Jefferson City via a man driving from Jefferson City to spend money at the Dome instead of spending it in town.
3 our cities and states end up competing with eachother. Just like in the civil war but this time bidding to see who can help Stan Kronk$$ the most.
4 the time and resources used building stadiums raise the prices for the labor and resources elsewhere. Wanna pave your street? Great, out bid the stadium for concrete and labor.
5 stadiums get built and rebuilt ridiculously quickly on the average. I'm not going to spend the time doing the math but only 5 NFL stadiums are older than me. Only one, Soldier Field, is older than my 1955 house and I understand the rebuilding was ridiculously extensive.
6 keep sports teams away from my kid as role models. Us parents need to be very aware of who our kids see us rooting for. Go cheer on a doctor or nurse some time as fervently as Ray Lewis, Leonard Little, the drunk passed out at the stop light Tony Larussa or the rest of the boys.
********
And my lord, I understand the New Deal involved putting people to work building ANYTHING to benefit the economy but that was the Great Depression and avoiding a socialist revolution.
How do my Republican "small government" friends get so in favor of these stadium deals or stand the major leagues after them?
But again this is greatly moderated from my past position against all stadium funding. For while there are better ways to spend your money at least building, tearing down and rebuilding a stadium every 20 years puts some folks to work and a decent portion of the direct cost is recovered via taxes on the team, your tickets, parking and concessions.
Things which have changed my mind include: reading a book which was against public stadium money, a review of the Reagan recovery, and some general economic theory work.
The book against public stadium money broke down the math fairly well. Especially football only stadiums are losers but many like ours in St Louis have SOME other purpose. All public stadiums should probably be baseball/football/convention I have decided.
The Reagan recover much like the New Deal was built on deficit spending. A large part of Reagan's money went to the military (like refitting the ship in my avatar), not a permanent directly tangible benefit for our economy like a power plant even. AND yes, the economy recovered on Reagan's credit card spending.
Which leads into the third point, while a stadium is a short sighted way to spend money compared to a road, power plant or school the money is spent in country and cycles once more before going to Malaysia via a pair of jeans I bought. Obviously interest on the bonds is a lost expense. On the deeper level subsidizing via public funds unfairly supports the NFL or MLB over their competition, a small business or my kid's junior team even for advertising dollars.
********
So remember
1 without your money the major sports leagues still do not have a viable business plan.
2 stadiums do not bring in much money.
- ticket sales largely come from home town folks. Instead of going to the bar or buying a DVD player or getting my kid a new pair of shoes or making the park field down the street nicer I am spending my money at the dome. No money generated there.
- yes money is brought in from out of city. Then again I am an American, not a City of St. Louisian, or Florissitonian, or Missourian. It does the country no overall good for St Louis to take money away from Jefferson City via a man driving from Jefferson City to spend money at the Dome instead of spending it in town.
3 our cities and states end up competing with eachother. Just like in the civil war but this time bidding to see who can help Stan Kronk$$ the most.
4 the time and resources used building stadiums raise the prices for the labor and resources elsewhere. Wanna pave your street? Great, out bid the stadium for concrete and labor.
5 stadiums get built and rebuilt ridiculously quickly on the average. I'm not going to spend the time doing the math but only 5 NFL stadiums are older than me. Only one, Soldier Field, is older than my 1955 house and I understand the rebuilding was ridiculously extensive.
6 keep sports teams away from my kid as role models. Us parents need to be very aware of who our kids see us rooting for. Go cheer on a doctor or nurse some time as fervently as Ray Lewis, Leonard Little, the drunk passed out at the stop light Tony Larussa or the rest of the boys.
********
And my lord, I understand the New Deal involved putting people to work building ANYTHING to benefit the economy but that was the Great Depression and avoiding a socialist revolution.
How do my Republican "small government" friends get so in favor of these stadium deals or stand the major leagues after them?
But again this is greatly moderated from my past position against all stadium funding. For while there are better ways to spend your money at least building, tearing down and rebuilding a stadium every 20 years puts some folks to work and a decent portion of the direct cost is recovered via taxes on the team, your tickets, parking and concessions.
