CDZ My Problem with the Institution of Policing in America

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

With the recent deaths of Michael Brown, Eric Garner, Rafael Ramos, and Wenjian Liu enough people in this country have finally woken up to the coming conflict between the police and the citizenry. This is something that has been brewing for a while that many of us have been pointing out for some time, but has largely fell on deaf ears until the Michael Brown killing put it on the front page.

Conservatives seem to think the police can do no wrong and they should be held up as heroes. Liberals seem to think the police wake up every morning giddy about how many brown people they can put a bullet in these days. Both sides are seeing only what they want and ignoring the whole of the problem.

Ron Paul penned this article and summed up my feelings on the subject damn near perfectly.

Here is a snippet, but I encourage everyone to read the entire piece to understand where the rest of us are coming from.

Think about it. Do you actually believe a police officer will show up in time to save your life if one of your “uncivilized” neighbors breaks into your home intent on killing you? Do you have any faith that the police will recover and return your property if a plunderer breaks into your home and steals your possessions? At best, the police might make an arrest after the fact, and the criminal justice system might punish the criminal. But the punishment will serve the demands of the state, not you. The police will not make you whole, restore your property or compensate your family if somebody takes your life.

The police serve to enforce the edicts of the state—laws and statutes that increasingly infringe on your liberty, property, and sometimes even your life.

Instead of protecting you, the cops use force to ensure you don’t consume unapproved substances. They seek to keep you from engaging in unauthorized transactions with other willing individuals. They enforce laws to ensure you don’t possess certain types of weapons. Cops stop you from consuming unapproved foods and use the threat of violence to ensure you utilize approved safety equipment in your car. They serve as the gun behind the grasping hand of the tax man, and the billy club backing up the government regulator.

Some protection.

My Problem with the Institution of Policing in America

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

Another good point he brings up

Most conservatives agree that government has grown too large, too intrusive and thrusts itself into too many areas of our lives. They will likely nod in agreement at Rand’s characterization of law in a society dominated by big government.

Then why do these same conservatives demand unquestioning support of the police, an institution that makes the intrusive big government system possible? How can they condemn the war and praise the guys carrying the spears?

The police—as an institution in America—do not deserve our support. “Protect and serve” has transformed into “command and control.” Police departments have evolved into militarized mini-armies obsessed with waging an unconstitutional “war on drugs.” Many departments have become institutionally violent, unaccountable and unresponsive to the people.

 

[ScienceRocks]

The criminals have also grown more violent and far more armed. So we disarm the police and let the criminals police our cities?

 

[saveliberty]

The police and I have a great relationship. How did you screw yours up?

 

[teddyearp]

Yes, I have been seeing this for quite a while now. As far as the right vs. left thing, google "545 people" sometime. It is quite an eye opener.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

The police and I have a great relationship. How did you screw yours up?

I have no relationship with them one way or the other.

 

[B. Kidd]

The police and I have a great relationship. How did you screw yours up?

I have no relationship with them one way or the other.

I call 'bullshit'; especially after all the anti-cop rants you've historically posted here at USMB. I ask again, how did a cop cross you?

 

[Montrovant]

It seems to me you are focusing on the wrong thing. The problem is the law, and the lawmakers responsible for creating it (which, in turn, can be said to be a problem of the people voting for those lawmakers) and not the people with the job of enforcing those laws.

If you want to talk about abuse of police power, corruption within police departments, things of that nature, that's one thing. But to take issue with the police for enforcing the legitimately enacted laws of the land is pretty asinine.

And it is absolutely reasonable to 'condemn the war and praise the guys carrying the spears'. I have done that often with the wars this country has become involved in; I support our troops but can, at the same time, denounce the wars they are sent to fight. Once again it is a matter of opposing the policy, not the people tasked with enforcing that policy.

There are certainly issues with abuse and corruption of police. That is a separate issue from what you seem to be discussing here.

 

[jwoodie]

As usual, Rand Paul makes beguiling arguments about what is wrong, but offers little in the way of practical solutions. As a group, law enforcement officers are ordinary mortals who have very difficult and stressful jobs. The challenge for police departments is to mold them into an effective crime control organization. This generally requires a rigid adherence to procedures that often appears unreasonable to private citizens.

 

[D Truth]

It seems that the issue of "policing" noted in the article is worthy of discussion. Thank you O.P.

So, what do the police actually do?
Do they serve and protect citizens? or do they serve and protect the state?
Seems more and more, that it is the latter.

They are beneficiaries of our taxes and they are also capable of violating every single one of our liberties.
How is that really any different from a gangster collecting extortion, and violating liberties based on whatever their "code" is?

The other side of the coin, police are individuals doing a job. Many are professional, and there are some who are not.

There could be a point to reviewing policy, though to do so maybe we should review the concept of policing first?

 

[FA_Q2]

This is what happens when you make virtually everything illegal and then actively suppress accountability for those holding power.

 

[Ellipsis]

With the recent deaths of Michael Brown, Eric Garner, Rafael Ramos, and Wenjian Liu enough people in this country have finally woken up to the coming conflict between the police and the citizenry. This is something that has been brewing for a while that many of us have been pointing out for some time, but has largely fell on deaf ears until the Michael Brown killing put it on the front page.

Conservatives seem to think the police can do no wrong and they should be held up as heroes. Liberals seem to think the police wake up every morning giddy about how many brown people they can put a bullet in these days. Both sides are seeing only what they want and ignoring the whole of the problem.

Ron Paul penned this article and summed up my feelings on the subject damn near perfectly.

Here is a snippet, but I encourage everyone to read the entire piece to understand where the rest of us are coming from.

Think about it. Do you actually believe a police officer will show up in time to save your life if one of your “uncivilized” neighbors breaks into your home intent on killing you? Do you have any faith that the police will recover and return your property if a plunderer breaks into your home and steals your possessions? At best, the police might make an arrest after the fact, and the criminal justice system might punish the criminal. But the punishment will serve the demands of the state, not you. The police will not make you whole, restore your property or compensate your family if somebody takes your life.

The police serve to enforce the edicts of the state—laws and statutes that increasingly infringe on your liberty, property, and sometimes even your life.

Instead of protecting you, the cops use force to ensure you don’t consume unapproved substances. They seek to keep you from engaging in unauthorized transactions with other willing individuals. They enforce laws to ensure you don’t possess certain types of weapons. Cops stop you from consuming unapproved foods and use the threat of violence to ensure you utilize approved safety equipment in your car. They serve as the gun behind the grasping hand of the tax man, and the billy club backing up the government regulator.

Some protection.

My Problem with the Institution of Policing in America

Michael Brown was a punk who deserved to die.

 

[FA_Q2]

With the recent deaths of Michael Brown, Eric Garner, Rafael Ramos, and Wenjian Liu enough people in this country have finally woken up to the coming conflict between the police and the citizenry. This is something that has been brewing for a while that many of us have been pointing out for some time, but has largely fell on deaf ears until the Michael Brown killing put it on the front page.

Conservatives seem to think the police can do no wrong and they should be held up as heroes. Liberals seem to think the police wake up every morning giddy about how many brown people they can put a bullet in these days. Both sides are seeing only what they want and ignoring the whole of the problem.

Ron Paul penned this article and summed up my feelings on the subject damn near perfectly.

Here is a snippet, but I encourage everyone to read the entire piece to understand where the rest of us are coming from.

Think about it. Do you actually believe a police officer will show up in time to save your life if one of your “uncivilized” neighbors breaks into your home intent on killing you? Do you have any faith that the police will recover and return your property if a plunderer breaks into your home and steals your possessions? At best, the police might make an arrest after the fact, and the criminal justice system might punish the criminal. But the punishment will serve the demands of the state, not you. The police will not make you whole, restore your property or compensate your family if somebody takes your life.

The police serve to enforce the edicts of the state—laws and statutes that increasingly infringe on your liberty, property, and sometimes even your life.

Instead of protecting you, the cops use force to ensure you don’t consume unapproved substances. They seek to keep you from engaging in unauthorized transactions with other willing individuals. They enforce laws to ensure you don’t possess certain types of weapons. Cops stop you from consuming unapproved foods and use the threat of violence to ensure you utilize approved safety equipment in your car. They serve as the gun behind the grasping hand of the tax man, and the billy club backing up the government regulator.

Some protection.

My Problem with the Institution of Policing in America

Michael Brown was a punk who deserved to die.

The only think that Brown's case did was bring the issue up in the national media and get people talking about it. It really wasn't even the case itself but rather the resulting riots and the police response that highlighted police treatment in the nation.

Weather or not Brown 'deserved' to die is rather meaningless to the greater question. It actually is not police gunning innocent people down that I have a real problem with. Don't get me wrong, if a cop acts incorrectly and shoots someone he is not supposed to they should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law but how many people really are gunned down by the police? I can tell you that I have never known anyone that has ever been shot by the police. Out of 300 million people, using a source that is more likely to break against the police (Citizen Run Database Shows Over 1 000 People Killed by Cops in 2014 The Free Thought Project ) that number would be near 1000 or 0.00003 percent. And that number, as far as I can tell, does NOT discriminate those killed lawfully or not. IOW, it is VERY rare unlike the idea that cops go running around looking for people to kill.

My problem is that the police no longer have any real boundaries and can harass you to their hearts content and they do harass people all the time. I have been robbed once in my life and it was by a cop. Pulled over because and arrested, an illegal search performed and then released as they couldn't find anything because the cops didn't like the fact I was driving at 2am. What is a night shifter to do anyway? each time they would outright lie to me and fabricate a 'reason' that would easily stand up in court for the stop. I have a serious problem with entities of the state who have the power that police have and with a VERY long list of fabrications that can justify them to stop and detain almost anyone they see fit. They 'smell' something or you were 'weaving' etc.

 

[Montrovant]

It seems that the issue of "policing" noted in the article is worthy of discussion. Thank you O.P.

So, what do the police actually do?
Do they serve and protect citizens? or do they serve and protect the state?
Seems more and more, that it is the latter.

They are beneficiaries of our taxes and they are also capable of violating every single one of our liberties.
How is that really any different from a gangster collecting extortion, and violating liberties based on whatever their "code" is?

The other side of the coin, police are individuals doing a job. Many are professional, and there are some who are not.

There could be a point to reviewing policy, though to do so maybe we should review the concept of policing first?

The easy answer to your question is that gangsters violate the law while police enforce it. If you need more examples of why your comparison is silly, let me know.

 

[jwoodie]

With the recent deaths of Michael Brown, Eric Garner, Rafael Ramos, and Wenjian Liu enough people in this country have finally woken up to the coming conflict between the police and the citizenry. This is something that has been brewing for a while that many of us have been pointing out for some time, but has largely fell on deaf ears until the Michael Brown killing put it on the front page.

Conservatives seem to think the police can do no wrong and they should be held up as heroes. Liberals seem to think the police wake up every morning giddy about how many brown people they can put a bullet in these days. Both sides are seeing only what they want and ignoring the whole of the problem.

Ron Paul penned this article and summed up my feelings on the subject damn near perfectly.

Here is a snippet, but I encourage everyone to read the entire piece to understand where the rest of us are coming from.

Think about it. Do you actually believe a police officer will show up in time to save your life if one of your “uncivilized” neighbors breaks into your home intent on killing you? Do you have any faith that the police will recover and return your property if a plunderer breaks into your home and steals your possessions? At best, the police might make an arrest after the fact, and the criminal justice system might punish the criminal. But the punishment will serve the demands of the state, not you. The police will not make you whole, restore your property or compensate your family if somebody takes your life.

The police serve to enforce the edicts of the state—laws and statutes that increasingly infringe on your liberty, property, and sometimes even your life.

Instead of protecting you, the cops use force to ensure you don’t consume unapproved substances. They seek to keep you from engaging in unauthorized transactions with other willing individuals. They enforce laws to ensure you don’t possess certain types of weapons. Cops stop you from consuming unapproved foods and use the threat of violence to ensure you utilize approved safety equipment in your car. They serve as the gun behind the grasping hand of the tax man, and the billy club backing up the government regulator.

Some protection.

My Problem with the Institution of Policing in America

Michael Brown was a punk who deserved to die.

No, but he deserved to be arrested.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

"Over the past four years, more than 100 people have won court judgments or settlements related to allegations of brutality and civil rights violations. Victims include a 15-year-old boy riding a dirt bike, a 26-year-old pregnant accountant who had witnessed a beating, a 50-year-old woman selling church raffle tickets, a 65-year-old church deacon rolling a cigarette and an 87-year-old grandmother aiding her wounded grandson.

Those cases detail a frightful human toll. Officers have battered dozens of residents who suffered broken bones — jaws, noses, arms, legs, ankles — head trauma, organ failure, and even death, coming during questionable arrests. Some residents were beaten while handcuffed; others were thrown to the pavement.

And in almost every case, prosecutors or judges dismissed the charges against the victims — if charges were filed at all."

U.S. cities pay out millions to settle police lawsuits - The Washington Post

 

[jwoodie]

"Over the past four years, more than 100 people have won court judgments or settlements related to allegations of brutality and civil rights violations. Victims include a 15-year-old boy riding a dirt bike, a 26-year-old pregnant accountant who had witnessed a beating, a 50-year-old woman selling church raffle tickets, a 65-year-old church deacon rolling a cigarette and an 87-year-old grandmother aiding her wounded grandson.

Those cases detail a frightful human toll. Officers have battered dozens of residents who suffered broken bones — jaws, noses, arms, legs, ankles — head trauma, organ failure, and even death, coming during questionable arrests. Some residents were beaten while handcuffed; others were thrown to the pavement.

And in almost every case, prosecutors or judges dismissed the charges against the victims — if charges were filed at all."

U.S. cities pay out millions to settle police lawsuits - The Washington Post

1. This is a blogged opinion piece, not a legitimate newspaper article.

2. Settlements are often made simply to avoid the costs of a trial.

3. The one-line examples provided are transparently misleading.

4. The "author" employs false logic, implying that innocent people are treated more harshly than guilty ones.

Good God, are critical reading and thinking skills completely obsolete these days?

 

[asaratis]

.....
Michael Brown was a punk who deserved to die.

No, but he deserved to be arrested.

Michael Brown deserved a family life with a law abiding, gainfully employed father bent on providing for his family instead of a dysfunctional family and the influence of peer pressure from the street culture that permeates the culture of young black males. Michael deserved someone to teach him to respect the police. Michael's death was caused by the same black culture that rioted and looted in viral protest of his being shot by an officer performing his duty. Michael became a thug as a direct result of his environment. That is what killed him.

 

[Hossfly]

.....
Michael Brown was a punk who deserved to die.

No, but he deserved to be arrested.

Michael Brown deserved a family life with a law abiding, gainfully employed father bent on providing for his family instead of a dysfunctional family and the influence of peer pressure from the street culture that permeates the culture of young black males. Michael deserved someone to teach him to respect the police. Michael's death was caused by the same black culture that rioted and looted in viral protest of his being shot by an officer performing his duty. Michael became a thug as a direct result of his environment. That is what killed him.

I know of neighborhoods in Charlotte where black adults conduct Big Brother and Big Sister programs for youngsters and it works. Even the police get involved. I have 2 friends who work with the kids. Alas, theres not enough of it going on in other cities across the country.

 

[asaratis]

.....
Michael Brown was a punk who deserved to die.

No, but he deserved to be arrested.

Michael Brown deserved a family life with a law abiding, gainfully employed father bent on providing for his family instead of a dysfunctional family and the influence of peer pressure from the street culture that permeates the culture of young black males. Michael deserved someone to teach him to respect the police. Michael's death was caused by the same black culture that rioted and looted in viral protest of his being shot by an officer performing his duty. Michael became a thug as a direct result of his environment. That is what killed him.

I know of neighborhoods in Charlotte where black adults conduct Big Brother and Big Sister programs for youngsters and it works. Even the police get involved. I have 2 friends who work with the kids. Alas, there's not enough of it going on in other cities across the country.

Totally agree. Programs that instill in a young person pride in belonging to a peaceful community instead of being the toughest little wise ass in the hood need the support of whatever parents are in the home. It's hard to control children at home when they play by survival-of-the-fittest rules and pecking orders within their gangs.