My Dogs Have Fleas

[syrenn]

Holy fucking CAPSTAR batman!!!

I lost count at 75 fleas, 70 of which came off of Finn and they're still falling off. Started working within 20 minutes. Not too many off the dogs. Am attempting to give old Shadow cat his pill. He's been calm all day, hate to give it to him cause he'll go nuts as they start dying. BUT ... omG, I can't believe there were that many on Finn.

Worth. Every. Penny. Spent.

and that is just the adults you are seeing..... eggs and larva, you cant see.

Blech! I just keep vacuuming, sprinkling DE in to the carpets, washing, etc. Think I'll give the DE on the animals a rest. I'm wondering if it interferes w/the FL as the FL works via the oil glands and the DE is drying. Hmmm.

Figure I'll just keep up the routine and keep a lookout for more fleas then treat w/the Capstar when necessary. Our house is cleaner than it's been in about two months. Oh, and I'm also using a lint brush on the furniture to help get off the flea dirt. Works great. I tried to vacuum the dog yesterday ... she wasn't a fan of that. lol

i really..REALLY suggest you bathe them all....... it will be a psychical removal of any beasties, it will remove the flea dirt which is horrifying, and you can use a rinse that will sooth the irritated skin.

i like the earthbath line.
Oatmeal & Aloe Shampoo :: earthbath® - totally natural pet care

 

[syrenn]

What I meant to say about Frontline is that our dog and cats were loaded with the fleas brought in on the previously Capstar-d stray puppy and the two houses were completely infested with them.

Note to ZoomBoing - this isn't really a huge help but if you want, you can get lighted flea traps from amazon. We keep them going for brown recluse spiders at the house in town because its an old Victorian mini-mansion and not as tight as the new house at the lake. You have a pretty heavy flea infestation and while I think you believe you're doing your best but, with what you're doing (IF I understand correctly what you've posted), you're gonna be at this for a while and every little bit helps. Besides, its satisfying to see the damn things stuck on the trap.

ya know.... these things really work!!! Good idea bringing it up.

LOL.... yes it is satisfying seeing them stuck to the trap... the only thing better would be a hearing a zap like a mosquito trap!

 

[Zoom-boing]

and that is just the adults you are seeing..... eggs and larva, you cant see.

Blech! I just keep vacuuming, sprinkling DE in to the carpets, washing, etc. Think I'll give the DE on the animals a rest. I'm wondering if it interferes w/the FL as the FL works via the oil glands and the DE is drying. Hmmm.

Figure I'll just keep up the routine and keep a lookout for more fleas then treat w/the Capstar when necessary. Our house is cleaner than it's been in about two months. Oh, and I'm also using a lint brush on the furniture to help get off the flea dirt. Works great. I tried to vacuum the dog yesterday ... she wasn't a fan of that. lol

i really..REALLY suggest you bathe them all....... it will be a psychical removal of any beasties, it will remove the flea dirt which is horrifying, and you can use a rinse that will sooth the irritated skin.

i like the earthbath line.
Oatmeal & Aloe Shampoo :: earthbath® - totally natural pet care

I'm thinking the same thing. Organic apple cider vinegar is a great rinse, fleas don't like it, good for the dog's coats. Gets rid of and keeps the dog from getting that "wet dog" smell. The dogs will greatly benefit from a bath. The cats will never in a million years allow me to bathe them. Well, Finn might ... I could give it a try ... but Shadow? Not a chance. Lots of fleas falling off of him but as far as I can tell, Finn takes the prize for the most. Am reading up on VetKem and may get some. I do like that it breaks the egg/larvae/flea cycle. Going to see how it goes over the weekend or so and if the buggers start hatching out again I'm getting some. Just vacuumed the basement (where Finn sleeps) again, his blanket, cat bed, futon cover, pillows all in the dryer, more DE sprinkled down there too. Gaaaaaaa! Shadow ate and ate and ate ... he's the most relaxed I've seen him in quite a few weeks. I keep thinking bugs are crawling all over me and can't stop itching ... mind over matter.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

If you don't have kids, you'd be better off staying with the silicon dioxide.

Just stop putting it on the animals or their skin will never heal.

Spray the yard if you want. It won't make a difference but people like to believe it will.

 

[Zoom-boing]

80???

First - Capstar is supposed to get 100% of what is on the animal but you are seeing exactly what happened to me. The Capstar did not kill all the fleas that were on the stray puppy I had.

But, even if you got 99 and 99/100%, you have gazillions happily laying eggs in your carpet so its the same as nothing at all.

In less than one week, you will be right back where you were before you bought the Capstar.

Really, you are WAY off track with this.

But, I wish you good luck.

Fleas are mainly on the pets, that's where they spend most of their life. They lay their eggs on the animal, eggs fall off into carpet, furniture, etc., do their thing, hatch ... more fleas, cycle starts all over again.

Any fleas/eggs/larvae in the carpet are being addressed with the DE (just as you used Borax) and I may get some VetKem spray as well, as it disrupts the life cycle; vacuuming daily; animals are all on Frontline (will reapply in 2 weeks as vet said I can give every 3 weeks); Capstar killed nearly all fleas on them (those fleas will not reproduce -yay!), Frontline and DE will get the rest but I need to give that time; will switch from FL if it does not seem to be doing the job.

What do you mean I'm way off track? What else do you suggest?

 

[koshergrl]

That's strange, my understanding was that they are only on pets long enough to get enough blood to facilitate egg laying.

 

[syrenn]

Blech! I just keep vacuuming, sprinkling DE in to the carpets, washing, etc. Think I'll give the DE on the animals a rest. I'm wondering if it interferes w/the FL as the FL works via the oil glands and the DE is drying. Hmmm.

Figure I'll just keep up the routine and keep a lookout for more fleas then treat w/the Capstar when necessary. Our house is cleaner than it's been in about two months. Oh, and I'm also using a lint brush on the furniture to help get off the flea dirt. Works great. I tried to vacuum the dog yesterday ... she wasn't a fan of that. lol

i really..REALLY suggest you bathe them all....... it will be a psychical removal of any beasties, it will remove the flea dirt which is horrifying, and you can use a rinse that will sooth the irritated skin.

i like the earthbath line.
Oatmeal & Aloe Shampoo :: earthbath® - totally natural pet care

I'm thinking the same thing. Organic vinegar is a great rinse, fleas don't like it, good for the dog's coats. Gets rid of and keeps the dog from getting that "wet dog" smell. The dogs will greatly benefit from a bath. The cats will never in a million years allow me to bathe them. Well, Finn might ... I could give it a try ... but Shadow? Not a chance. Lots of fleas falling off of him but as far as I can tell, Finn takes the prize for the most. Am reading up on VetKem and may get some. I do like that it breaks the egg/larvae/flea cycle. Going to see how it goes over the weekend or so and if the buggers start hatching out again I'm getting some. Just vacuumed the basement (where Finn sleeps) again, his blanket, cat bed, futon cover, pillows all in the dryer, more DE sprinkled down there too. Gaaaaaaa! Shadow ate and ate and ate ... he's the most relaxed I've seen him in quite a few weeks. I keep thinking bugs are crawling all over me and can't stop itching ... mind over matter.

talk to your vet....and see if he will give you a tranquilizer so that you can relax the the cats down enough for a bath..... I am not sure about the vinagar.... but the aloe oatmeal will soothe the skin. And their skin needs some soothing.

The vetkem in my book.... was sent from god! Truthfully i would not wait to see if they all hatch.... the fight with fleas is all about breaking the life cycle and getting them before they get you.... allowing them to hatch just starts the whole damn thing over again!!!

 

[Zoom-boing]

I have.

We picked up an almost dead puppy, loaded with fleas and ticks, Capstar at the vet, took him home the next day. The Capstar didn't kill the fleas and we had a huge infestation at both out homes. As bad as it is at one house, its so much worse at two because you keep carrying back and forth.

I won't use diatomacious earth because of its high toxicity. We used only borax at both houses and got rid of the fleas pretty quickly. I've heard they're especially bad in our area and people foolishly use poison that is completely ineffective.

What people don't seem to understand is that its just like what we're seeing with antibiotics. We throw these drugs and poisons at everything that comes along and then act all surprised when they become ineffective.

DE is not toxic, stop stating that it is. You are misinformed.

Silicon dioxide is relatively safe to eat but toxic if inhaled and has been shown to cause DNA changes.

Silica, quartz : OSH Answers

http://www.nfc.umn.edu/assets/pdf/msds/silicon_dioxide.pdf

Silicon Dioxide | GreenMedInfo | Toxic Ingredient | Natural Medicine

631K more links here:

https://www.google.com/search?q=dia...08,d.aWc&fp=1c1876821f7dec2c&biw=1180&bih=528

I would truly appreciate reading the links you've found that tell a different story. Thanks.

Do you even know what diatomaceous earth is? The DE I use is food grade NOT what is used in swimming pools.

Diatomaceous earth consists of fossilized remains of diatoms, a type of hard-shelled algae.

Diatomite is used as an insecticide, due to its abrasive and physico-sorptive properties.[8] The fine powder absorbs lipids from the waxy outer layer of insects' exoskeletons, causing them to dehydrate.[9] Arthropods die as a result of the water pressure deficiency

Diatomaceous earth - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is from a link you provided:

What happens to diatomaceous earth when it enters the body?

When diatomaceous earth is eaten, very little is absorbed into the body. The remaining portion is rapidly excreted. Small amounts of silica are normally present in all body tissues, and it is normal to find silicon dioxide in urine. In one study, people ate a few grams of diatomaceous earth. The amount of silicon dioxide in their urine was unchanged.

After inhalation of amorphous diatomaceous earth, it is rapidly eliminated from lung tissue. However, crystalline diatomaceous earth is much smaller, and it may accumulate in lung tissue and lymph nodes. Very low levels of crystalline diatomaceous earth may be found in pesticide products.
Is diatomaceous earth likely to contribute to the development of cancer?

When mice were forced to breathe diatomaceous earth for one hour each day for a year, there was an increase in lung cancers. When rats were fed silica at a high dose for two years, there was no increase in cancer development.

Most diatomaceous earth is made of amorphous silicon dioxide. However, it can contain very low levels of crystalline silicon dioxide. Amorphous diatomaceous earth has not been associated with any cancers in people.
Has anyone studied non-cancer effects from long-term exposure to diatomaceous earth?

In a rabbit study, researchers found no health effects after applying diatomaceous earth to the rabbits' skin five times per week for three weeks. In a rat study, researchers fed rats high doses of diatomaceous earth for six months. They found no reproductive or developmental effects. In another rat study, the only effect was more rapid weight gain. That study involved 90 days of feeding rats with a diet made of 5% diatomaceous earth.

When guinea pigs were forced to breathe air containing diatomaceous earth for 2 years, there was slightly more connective tissue in their lungs. When researchers checked before the 2-year mark, no effects were found.

A very small amount of crystalline diatomaceous earth may be found in pesticide products. Long-term inhalation of the crystalline form is associated with silicosis, chronic bronchitis, and other respiratory problems. The bulk of diatomaceous earth is amorphous, not crystalline. The amorphous form is only associated with mild, reversible lung inflammation.

It isn't toxic to humans; it is deadly to insects with an exoskeleton.

From another link you provided:

Available studies demonstrate that silicon dioxide and silica gel have
moderate to low acute toxicity. These pesticides have been placed in
Toxicity Category III for acute oral and dermal effects (Toxicity Category I
indicating the highest degree of toxicity, and IV the lowest). Similarly, an
inhalation study and eye and dermal irritation studies suggest moderate to
low toxicity.

With regard to subchronic and chronic effects, crystalline silicon
dioxide has long been associated with silicosis, a progressive lung disease
which may result in lung cancer in humans. However, amorphous silicon
dioxide (used in pesticide formulations) has not been associated with
silicosis. The International Agency for Research on Cancer (IARC)
conducted an in-depth evaluation of the potential carcinogenicity of silicon
dioxide. They found that there is inadequate evidence to link amorphous
silica with cancer effects in humans or test animals.

Here is a link with tons of info on DE. Diatomaceous Earth - Food Grade Diatomaceous Earth Health Benefits


FOOD GRADE DE is not the same as COMMERCIAL GRADE DE.

1. How can something that kills bugs be safe for me and my pets?

Remember--Diatomaceous Earth kills insects by PHYSICAL action---not chemical. Hundreds of the microscopic DE get all over the insects body. As the insects move, the DE scratches the waxy coating off of them and they dehydrate and die. Because the DE particle is so small--it has no harm to people and pets. It is a simple mineral---silica.

2. Is the same product used for killing bugs and helping people?

All the Diatomaceous Earth we sell is the exact same product dug out of the same mine. Because Diatomaceous Earth kills insects, it falls under the control of the EPA. Becasue of that, we sell both regular labeled Diatomaceous Earth and Diatomaceous Earth with the approved EPA label. You can buy either product, but if you are going to be using Diatomaceous Earth for killing insects, you are supposed to buy the EPA labeled product.

3. How much DE should a person take each day?

Myself, my wife, and everyone I know takes 1 heaping tablespoon per day in liquid of their choice. I use juice, but many just put in a glass of water. I know some who take 2 or 3 tablespoons a day, but that is usually for a severe problem they are trying to correct. I also know some who just take a teaspoon per day to start out with and work up to a tablespoon.

4. I have heard DE is dangerous--especially breathing it in.

Food Grade DE often gets confused with filter grade DE. Filter grade DE starts out as food grade, but it is heated to about 1000 degrees and chemicals are added to crystallize it. This works great for filtering but is dangerous to people and animals. Breathing the crystallized product in over long periods of time causes a disease called silicoses. The world health org. has said that DE needs to be less than 2% crystalline silica in order to be considered safe. The filter grade DE is 60% crystalline!! -- Stay away from it --- it is dangerous!! Perma-Guards food grade DE on the other hand is less than .50% crystalline silica. As you can see, that is more than 4 times less than it needs to be to be considered safe! Daily use of Food Grade DE for people, pets and around the garden is perfectly safe. Food Grade DE should be treated like any other dusty product, if you are going to breath it in over long periods of time, wear a dust mask ---- but it should in no way be compared to the dangerous crystallized filter grade.

http://www.earthworkshealth.com/Diatomaceous-Earth-FAQ.php

Inhalation Risks

All types of diatomaceous earth are, to varying degrees, unsafe for human inhalation. Natural and food-grade DE can cause irritation of the mucous membranes of the nose and mouth; therefore, a respiratory mask should be worn when administering DE. Pool-grade DE is a respiratory hazard due to its crystalline silica content. This high concentration of crystalline silica is due to the partial melting of the DE; this melting and processing result in a substance that is carcinogenic and should not be inhaled or ingested.

http://www.ehow.com/about_6682801_diatomaceous-earth-safe-inhale_.html


Another link on the benefits of food grade DE:

http://www.richsoil.com/diatomaceous-earth.jsp

 

[itfitzme]

Nope, the Capstar is working. I've lost count the number of fleas that have fallen off the cats. I can't believe there were that many on them. Not sure about the dogs, they keep moving around and are on a dark carpet. Not too much biting/licking from them so they may have less of a problem.

You misunderstood my meaning. I said, "in YOUR situation" ... Sorry I wasn't more clear -

Although the Capstar did not kill the fleas on my stray puppy, I believe that it usually does kill the fleas and ticks on the animal.

THAT is the point. Most of the life cycle of both fleas and ticks is spent OFF the host animal. That's why dipping is worthless too. So what if you kill the relative few that are on the animal at any given time when it does not address those in the environment? THAT is why its a waste for you. You may have killed those few but there are plenty more that will be climbing on when the Capstar wears off.

It took me a long time to learn the basic rule of dealing with external parasites: Treat the environment but, with the exception of products like Frontline, not the animal.

I disagree. The Capstar got off 80+ fleas off of Finn, our one year old cat; numerous fleas off the other three animals. Now none of those fleas will reproduce. That's a huge plus. While it does not kill eggs/larva it does prevent those adults from laying more eggs. Adult fleas spend 99% of their time on the animals ... killing them off the animal prevents them from reproducing and gives relief to the animal. My old cat is stressed and over-grooming from it all ... he looks like some straggly old alley cat.

Absolutely you have to treat the environment, both indoors and out, and also use a long-term product like FL. But I'm very grateful that the Capstar is available and worked so well.

Speaking of overgrooming, the poor animal I am thinking of had the same problem. Three quarters of the cat's tail, and much of its hind quarters, were bare from scratching and biting. The owner had a "fundamental attribution error" thing going on, blaming it on the cat being OCD. The problem was that the fleas would go as far away from the treatment as possible, hiding at h
the tip of the cat's tail, then moving back in as the treatment faded. Poor cat's back end was bald and raw. I swear the fleas had taken refuge in its butt.

 

[Zoom-boing]

That's strange, my understanding was that they are only on pets long enough to get enough blood to facilitate egg laying.

My understanding is that they are mainly on pets but can live in carpeting, furniture for long periods of time. They lay eggs on pets or other surfaces but stay on pets to feed and feed and breed and breed.

Cute cartoon about 3 min long, gives life cycle of fleas. Vet-Kem® Flea & Tick Products

 

[koshergrl]

My dog goes nuts on his tail...he is super allergic to fleas. He's treated, and I've never found a single one on him...but they're around or he wouldn't chew like that.

But I can't eradicate fleas from the entire world. So when it gets bad I give him prednisone or benadryl, and when it's really bad, antibiotics. There's only so much you can do.

 

[Zoom-boing]

You misunderstood my meaning. I said, "in YOUR situation" ... Sorry I wasn't more clear -

Although the Capstar did not kill the fleas on my stray puppy, I believe that it usually does kill the fleas and ticks on the animal.

THAT is the point. Most of the life cycle of both fleas and ticks is spent OFF the host animal. That's why dipping is worthless too. So what if you kill the relative few that are on the animal at any given time when it does not address those in the environment? THAT is why its a waste for you. You may have killed those few but there are plenty more that will be climbing on when the Capstar wears off.

It took me a long time to learn the basic rule of dealing with external parasites: Treat the environment but, with the exception of products like Frontline, not the animal.

I disagree. The Capstar got off 80+ fleas off of Finn, our one year old cat; numerous fleas off the other three animals. Now none of those fleas will reproduce. That's a huge plus. While it does not kill eggs/larva it does prevent those adults from laying more eggs. Adult fleas spend 99% of their time on the animals ... killing them off the animal prevents them from reproducing and gives relief to the animal. My old cat is stressed and over-grooming from it all ... he looks like some straggly old alley cat.

Absolutely you have to treat the environment, both indoors and out, and also use a long-term product like FL. But I'm very grateful that the Capstar is available and worked so well.

Speaking of overgrooming, the poor animal I am thinking of had the same problem. Three quarters of the cat's tail, and much of its hind quarters, were bare from scratching and biting. The owner had a "fundamental attribution error" thing going on, blaming it on the cat being OCD. The problem was that the fleas would go as far away from the treatment as possible, hiding at h
the tip of the cat's tail, then moving back in as the treatment faded. Poor cat's back end was bald and raw. I swear the fleas had taken refuge in its butt.

My old cat is sparsely furred on his belly and hind legs. Above his eyes are thin, thin, thin too. We've been blaming it on the addition of a new cat ... hoping when the fleas are gone his over-grooming calms down.

 

[syrenn]

You misunderstood my meaning. I said, "in YOUR situation" ... Sorry I wasn't more clear -

Although the Capstar did not kill the fleas on my stray puppy, I believe that it usually does kill the fleas and ticks on the animal.

THAT is the point. Most of the life cycle of both fleas and ticks is spent OFF the host animal. That's why dipping is worthless too. So what if you kill the relative few that are on the animal at any given time when it does not address those in the environment? THAT is why its a waste for you. You may have killed those few but there are plenty more that will be climbing on when the Capstar wears off.

It took me a long time to learn the basic rule of dealing with external parasites: Treat the environment but, with the exception of products like Frontline, not the animal.

I disagree. The Capstar got off 80+ fleas off of Finn, our one year old cat; numerous fleas off the other three animals. Now none of those fleas will reproduce. That's a huge plus. While it does not kill eggs/larva it does prevent those adults from laying more eggs. Adult fleas spend 99% of their time on the animals ... killing them off the animal prevents them from reproducing and gives relief to the animal. My old cat is stressed and over-grooming from it all ... he looks like some straggly old alley cat.

Absolutely you have to treat the environment, both indoors and out, and also use a long-term product like FL. But I'm very grateful that the Capstar is available and worked so well.

Speaking of overgrooming, the poor animal I am thinking of had the same problem. Three quarters of the cat's tail, and much of its hind quarters, were bare from scratching and biting. The owner had a "fundamental attribution error" thing going on, blaming it on the cat being OCD. The problem was that the fleas would go as far away from the treatment as possible, hiding at h
the tip of the cat's tail, then moving back in as the treatment faded. Poor cat's back end was bald and raw. I swear the fleas had taken refuge in its butt.

which is why you have to bathe them and treat all of the bedding they sleep on. With bad infestations such as yours...i would suggest "dipping" them as well.

 

[Zoom-boing]

Just bathed both dogs, only saw one dead flea off of Penny, none off of Dio. No live ones at all.

Saw another live flea on Finn (which means there's more). I may Capstar him again over the weekend. Shadow is less itchy/frantically bathing but is finding odd, odd places to be. Today it's the litterbox. It's quiet and out of the way ... but the litterbox? Weird. Keeping an eye on him.

Thank you, syrenn for the VetKem info. Just ordered a bottle for pet application and a bottle for carpet/furniture application. Couldn't find it for sale by any local vets, it should be here next Wed or Thurs.

 

[syrenn]

Just bathed both dogs, only saw one dead flea off of Penny, none off of Dio. No live ones at all.

Saw another live flea on Finn (which means there's more). I may Capstar him again over the weekend. Shadow is less itchy/frantically bathing but is finding odd, odd places to be. Today it's the litterbox. It's quiet and out of the way ... but the litterbox? Weird. Keeping an eye on him.

Thank you, syrenn for the VetKem info. Just ordered a bottle for pet application and a bottle for carpet/furniture application. Couldn't find it for sale by any local vets, it should be here next Wed or Thurs.

i hope it helps!!!

odd places to be... may also be not wanting to be in or on infested areas..... cats are smart like that. He is also most likely stressed by all the vacuuming

 

[koshergrl]

Just bathed both dogs, only saw one dead flea off of Penny, none off of Dio. No live ones at all.

Saw another live flea on Finn (which means there's more). I may Capstar him again over the weekend. Shadow is less itchy/frantically bathing but is finding odd, odd places to be. Today it's the litterbox. It's quiet and out of the way ... but the litterbox? Weird. Keeping an eye on him.

Thank you, syrenn for the VetKem info. Just ordered a bottle for pet application and a bottle for carpet/furniture application. Couldn't find it for sale by any local vets, it should be here next Wed or Thurs.

Please give the kitty some benadryl. I feel sorry for her, and it will give her a break.

 

[koshergrl]

Mylo had a seizure last night..I told my mom and she said to look for ticks. The funny thing is...she has a weird spot between her front legs that has been bothering her and the hair has fallen off...I seriously think she might have had a tick there.

 

[syrenn]

Mylo had a seizure last night..I told my mom and she said to look for ticks. The funny thing is...she has a weird spot between her front legs that has been bothering her and the hair has fallen off...I seriously think she might have had a tick there.

 

[syrenn]

Just bathed both dogs, only saw one dead flea off of Penny, none off of Dio. No live ones at all.

Saw another live flea on Finn (which means there's more). I may Capstar him again over the weekend. Shadow is less itchy/frantically bathing but is finding odd, odd places to be. Today it's the litterbox. It's quiet and out of the way ... but the litterbox? Weird. Keeping an eye on him.

Thank you, syrenn for the VetKem info. Just ordered a bottle for pet application and a bottle for carpet/furniture application. Couldn't find it for sale by any local vets, it should be here next Wed or Thurs.

Please give the kitty some benadryl. I feel sorry for her, and it will give her a break.

not a bad idea! It would also help with the itching.....

but ask the vet first!!!!

 

[koshergrl]

I'm going to dose my dog with steroids tonight. If whatever caused her seizure is caused by inflammation or swelling, it will help. Plus it helps with skin stuff anyway.