Must See: President Obama gets Pwned by Rep. Paul Ryan at Health Care Summit. (Video)

[Cuyo]

Ryan demonstrated that he is a toady spouting pre-rehearsed talking points. He obviously has no clue over what is in the bill and is spouting Republican fear rhetoric

Yeah...we "fear" we are going to lose our Country through bankruptcy and the total meltdown that will follow. This Congress should be working on ideas to save us from all this; not trying to find more ways to push the national debt to $14 trillion and more.

The bill reduces the deficit, average guy! It REDUCES it! Who knew?

 

[slackjawed]

Ryan demonstrated that he is a toady spouting pre-rehearsed talking points. He obviously has no clue over what is in the bill and is spouting Republican fear rhetoric

Yeah...we "fear" we are going to lose our Country through bankruptcy and the total meltdown that will follow. This Congress should be working on ideas to save us from all this; not trying to find more ways to push the national debt to $14 trillion and more.

The bill reduces the deficit, average guy! It REDUCES it! Who knew?

Please keep telling everyone that.

 

[Cuyo]

Yeah...we "fear" we are going to lose our Country through bankruptcy and the total meltdown that will follow. This Congress should be working on ideas to save us from all this; not trying to find more ways to push the national debt to $14 trillion and more.

The bill reduces the deficit, average guy! It REDUCES it! Who knew?

Please keep telling everyone that.

*Sigh*
http://www.usmessageboard.com/polit...ill-start-over-if-you-will-8.html#post2045065

Please see post 113.

 

[Cuyo]

The bill reduces the deficit, average guy! It REDUCES it! Who knew?

Please keep telling everyone that.

*Sigh*
http://www.usmessageboard.com/polit...ill-start-over-if-you-will-8.html#post2045065

Please see post 113.

...And then it was quiet again.

TOO MUCH LOGIC?

 

[slackjawed]

Please keep telling everyone that.

*Sigh*
http://www.usmessageboard.com/polit...ill-start-over-if-you-will-8.html#post2045065

Please see post 113.

...And then it was quiet again.

TOO MUCH LOGIC?

Nope, I had to get offline to something in real life.
The period up to 2019 is the only time that is addressed in the cbo report, kinda like enron method of bookkeeping.
What happens after that?
If one uses honest bookkeeping methods, then this bill increases the deficit in the period after 2019.

 

[gautama]

Yeah...we "fear" we are going to lose our Country through bankruptcy and the total meltdown that will follow. This Congress should be working on ideas to save us from all this; not trying to find more ways to push the national debt to $14 trillion and more.

The bill reduces the deficit, average guy! It REDUCES it! Who knew?

Please keep telling everyone that.

Yep !

The Obamarrhoidal Idiot feels that if he REPEATS something long enough......it will change.

If this Obamarrhoidal Idiot points to a chair and keeps repeating it's an apple.......shouldn't there be a fellow standing by with a strait jacket for him ?

 

[slackjawed]

So please continue the way you are, cherry picking data on a limited time frame, casting dispursions on those that disagree with you, and please engage in insults and name-calling as well.
It will do more to unite this country than anything that the current crop of pretend leaders has done thus far.
Please continue, please. the nation I love will benefit for it in the long run.

 

[slackjawed]

I encourage the democrats and their supporters to continue to ignore the will of the people and stay on the same path that they have been on. Don't change a thing.
In the end, we the people will benefit from a nation that will be fully aware of the democratic agenda, and the lies they use to push them.
That "end justifies the means" thinking will catch up with the democrats, it is simply a matter of time.
Please continue, please!

 

[Cuyo]

The bill reduces the deficit, average guy! It REDUCES it! Who knew?

Please keep telling everyone that.

Yep !

The Obamarrhoidal Idiot feels that if he REPEATS something long enough......it will change.

I point out that your argument is factually incorrect, and I become an Obamarrhoidal Idiot. Gotta love it.

There are plenty of legitimate reasons to fundamentally oppose the reform, but I never hear them. I could probably make a better argument for your side than you could.

It reduces the deficit. It does not fund abortions. It does not cover illegal aliens. It is not a "Government takeover" of healthcare, In fact it's far from it. I'm not 100% in love with the bill, much like about 1/2 of the people who "Oppose," I don't think it goes far enough! But yes, when you make arguments that are simply and provably false, I'm going to show my Obamarrhoidal side.

 

[Ragnar]

Why do Republicans care more for Iraqi's than other Americans? Can someone please answer? Please explain it? Please?

Public option does not equal better care.

Newfoundland Premier Danny Williams? Heart Surgery in the U.S. Triggers Debate on Healthcare in Canada | Dark Daily

Danny Williams’ decision caused negative reactions among the press and commentators in the United States and Canada. After all, why would a senior elected official from Newfoundland decide to leave Canada, which has national health insurance, and seek care in the U.S., where the Congress is debating the merits of a national health insurance plan? It was disclosed that Williams underwent a major heart procedure on Thursday, February 4, at an undisclosed hospital in Florida.

Critics point out that Williams’ choice to undergo his surgery in a U.S. hospital contrasts dramatically against the poor care that hundreds of breast cancer patients received in Newfoundland in earlier years. It was October 2005, when the Canadian public became aware of inaccuracies in breast cancer testing performed by the pathology laboratory that serves the provinces of Newfoundland and Labrador.

Public option does not create competition it would kill it. Who can compete with a company that can lose billions (that's millions with a "b") and go on deficit spending for years? A public option would stiffle inovation by squeezing reasearch funds.

See with links and facts I don't have to ask hyperbolic questions like "why do some Democrats want to kill Americans with a public option like the Canadian system does? (see link)

You could play that game forever. Here's one that even better:

Insurer's agreement to cover surgery comes too late

"You guys killed my daughter," the diminutive San Fernando Valley real estate agent declared at the lobby security desk. "I want an apology." (17 year old daughter denied surgery - died)
What she got was something quite different.
Cigna employees, looking down into the atrium lobby from a balcony above, began heckling her, she said, with one of them giving her "the finger."

Insurer's agreement to cover surgery comes too late - Los Angeles Times

---------------------------------------------------

Number one cause of bankruptcy - medical bills

----------------------------------------------------

Admit it. Republicans don't give a hoot about American citizens. They care more for insurance companies that stand between doctors and patients. Companies that made 12 billion last year by dropping 2.7 million Americans.

To defend that is just odious. Awful and odious. What kind of people are Republicans? They can't be real citizens. How is that possible?

"Play the game forever"? Really?

How many wealthy American's run to Canada for life saving surgery they can't get in the U.S. every year? Did you even read the link to see how many Canadian women died of cancer that did not have too?

I will "admit" this, tragic things happen in every system ever developed. They are all human creations after all.

However there are aspects of our health care (and more free economy in general) that sadly can not ever be measured in a tit for tat race. Every year American medical technology improves faster than anywhere else on earth. Every year America developes more life saving drugs than anyone. Every year America develops more life saving procedures than anywhere else on earth. Why? We know American's are not superior to other people, our educational system is not as good as most (pre-college... pre-mostly-free market) and we know there is no such thing as a superior "race" of people. It's our system and our freedoms and nothing more.

No one else can keep up with our level of research funding and inovation because no one else has the capital we have. Why? Because their taxes are too high and their regulation is too stringent. Way to much of their money goes to the wealfare statism of socialist policy. They are all equal in their home countries (not counting the political class) but they are all equaly inferior.

The tragedy is not that a handful of Americans die due to lack of public option or that many in other "Western" countries die due to excess of public options. The tragedy (to me) is what could Europe be developing (new drugs, methods, technology) that might save countless future lives if they were more free?

It's the classic "unseen hand" the "rising tide that lifts all boats". Look how far medicine has come in America in the last 50 years. What if Europe was running at our pace too? What if China was? The whole world even? The only thing holding the rest of the world back is their backwards-ass government philosophies. In light of all we know, how insane is it that half our government is now tyring to follow the lead of the backwards world rather than trying to lead everyone else toward our vastly better system?

 

[hboats]

The bill reduces the deficit, average guy! It REDUCES it! Who knew?

Please keep telling everyone that.

*Sigh*
http://www.usmessageboard.com/polit...ill-start-over-if-you-will-8.html#post2045065

Please see post 113.

*Sigh*

And then see the truth in post 116 of the same thread.

Rick

 

[Cuyo]

"Play the game forever"? Really?

How many wealthy American's run to Canada for life saving surgery they can't get in the U.S. every year? Did you even read the link to see how many Canadian women died of cancer that did not have too?

I will "admit" this, tragic things happen in every system ever developed. They are all human creations after all.

However there are aspects of our health care (and more free economy in general) that sadly can not ever be measured in a tit for tat race. Every year American medical technology improves faster than anywhere else on earth. Every year America developes more life saving drugs than anyone. Every year America develops more life saving procedures than anywhere else on earth. Why? We know American's are not superior to other people, our educational system is not as good as most (pre-college... pre-mostly-free market) and we know there is no such thing as a superior "race" of people. It's our system and our freedoms and nothing more.

No one else can keep up with our level of research funding and inovation because no one else has the capital we have. Why? Because their taxes are too high and their regulation is too stringent. Way to much of their money goes to the wealfare statism of socialist policy. They are all equal in their home countries (not counting the political class) but they are all equaly inferior.

The tragedy is not that a handful of Americans die due to lack of public option or that many in other "Western" countries die due to excess of public options. The tragedy (to me) is what could Europe be developing (new drugs, methods, technology) that might save countless future lives if they were more free?

It's the classic "unseen hand" the "rising tide that lifts all boats". Look how far medicine has come in America in the last 50 years. What if Europe was running at our pace too? What if China was? The whole world even? The only thing holding the rest of the world back is their backwards-ass government philosophies. In light of all we know, how insane is it that half our government is now tyring to follow the lead of the backwards world rather than trying to lead everyone else toward our vastly better system?

Thank you. For real, I'm not being a douche.

While I fundamentally dis-agree with this man, I would have to elaborate on his points as to why I disagree, and I may do that later. Unfortunately I too have things to do in real life. But seriously, he knows what he's talking about.

As opposed to you spewing something that's wholly incorrect, and calling me stupid for pointing it out! Can you imagine that? C'mon guys, you can do better than that.

 

[Cuyo]

Please keep telling everyone that.

*Sigh*
http://www.usmessageboard.com/polit...ill-start-over-if-you-will-8.html#post2045065

Please see post 113.

*Sigh*

And then see the truth in post 116 of the same thread.

Rick

See that? You're getting better. "I oppose the bill because it raises certain taxes." That's legitimate! But "It increases the deficit" is flatly false.

Seriously, I gotta go. See yas later.

 

[hboats]

*Sigh*
http://www.usmessageboard.com/polit...ill-start-over-if-you-will-8.html#post2045065

Please see post 113.

*Sigh*

And then see the truth in post 116 of the same thread.

Rick

See that? You're getting better. "I oppose the bill because it raises certain taxes." That's legitimate! But "It increases the deficit" is flatly false.

Seriously, I gotta go. See yas later.

Actually it's flatly false if you just look at the first sentence of that paragraph, but when you read the whole paragraph you find that it in fact is not flatly false. You find that they're trying to use smoke and mirrors to make it look like the deficit will be reduced, when in fact it will have the exact opposite effect. Which is in fact what Ryan was pointing out yesterday when Obama accused him of using "talking points." What Obama calls "talking points" is exactly what they were supposed to be there yesterday to do. Discuss the differences on either side of the aisle and try to find some kind of compromise, but did they? No, because Obama used the "talking points" argument to effectively shut down any discussion and turn the meeting back over to the Democrats who were there for no other reason than to read sob story letters and recite sob story phone calls from people who don't realize that there are already programs set up to get what they're complaining about.

I got it, instead of this health care reform, lets spend a fraction of what this bill will cost and educate these people about the programs that are already out there that they can take advantage of to get their dentures so that they can stop wearing the dentures that they took from their dead sister. (This was said in sarcasm, believe me, there is a need for reform, just not the kind of reform that this bill promotes.)

Rick

 

[rdean]

Ryan demonstrated that he is a toady spouting pre-rehearsed talking points. He obviously has no clue over what is in the bill and is spouting Republican fear rhetoric

Yeah...we "fear" we are going to lose our Country through bankruptcy and the total meltdown that will follow. This Congress should be working on ideas to save us from all this; not trying to find more ways to push the national debt to $14 trillion and more.

The number one cause of bankruptcy now is medical bills.

Tell us you knew that.

 

[slackjawed]

*Sigh*

And then see the truth in post 116 of the same thread.

Rick

See that? You're getting better. "I oppose the bill because it raises certain taxes." That's legitimate! But "It increases the deficit" is flatly false.

Seriously, I gotta go. See yas later.

Actually it's flatly false if you just look at the first sentence of that paragraph, but when you read the whole paragraph you find that it in fact is not flatly false. You find that they're trying to use smoke and mirrors to make it look like the deficit will be reduced, when in fact it will have the exact opposite effect. Which is in fact what Ryan was pointing out yesterday when Obama accused him of using "talking points." What Obama calls "talking points" is exactly what they were supposed to be there yesterday to do. Discuss the differences on either side of the aisle and try to find some kind of compromise, but did they? No, because Obama used the "talking points" argument to effectively shut down any discussion and turn the meeting back over to the Democrats who were there for no other reason than to read sob story letters and recite sob story phone calls from people who don't realize that there are already programs set up to get what they're complaining about.

I got it, instead of this health care reform, lets spend a fraction of what this bill will cost and educate these people about the programs that are already out there that they can take advantage of to get their dentures so that they can stop wearing the dentures that they took from their dead sister. (This was said in sarcasm, believe me, there is a need for reform, just not the kind of reform that this bill promotes.)

Rick

Exactly, using budget numbers only until 2019 is cherry-picking financial data to support a partisan point. Calling an objection to that a 'talking point' is simply SOP for Obama because he knows that the program would increase the deficit after that, and simply wanted to shut down the opposition. In my opinion, he not only did not look presidential engaging in such tactics, he shamed the presidency by doing so.
If the HC bill was a program that was going to end in 2019, then it would be legitimate in cutting the study off at that point. However, since it continues well past that date, then a real honest assessment would include a timeframe well past 2019. A real honest assessment would not cherry pick data from a time frame where taxes are collected for 4 years before any benefits are paid out.
For this simple reason the claim that the current bill is deficit neutral is false, simply because it is based on false premises. There are executives from enron that were prosecuted for engaging in the same type of financial accounting practices.

 

[hboats]

Ryan demonstrated that he is a toady spouting pre-rehearsed talking points. He obviously has no clue over what is in the bill and is spouting Republican fear rhetoric

Yeah...we "fear" we are going to lose our Country through bankruptcy and the total meltdown that will follow. This Congress should be working on ideas to save us from all this; not trying to find more ways to push the national debt to $14 trillion and more.

The number one cause of bankruptcy now is medical bills.

Tell us you knew that.

We've also turned into a country that uses bankruptcy as an alternative to paying our bills.

Tell us you knew that.

Rick

 

[jillian]

Ryan demonstrated that he is a toady spouting pre-rehearsed talking points. He obviously has no clue over what is in the bill and is spouting Republican fear rhetoric

Yeah...we "fear" we are going to lose our Country through bankruptcy and the total meltdown that will follow. This Congress should be working on ideas to save us from all this; not trying to find more ways to push the national debt to $14 trillion and more.

if you don't want to be bankrupt...fix health care.

in 10 years, 50 cents of every dollar of our GDP will be spent on health coverage. Its costs increase at rates far above and beyond the rate of inflation, with less efficient delivery than in any other civilized country.

50% of bankruptcies filed in this country are due to unanticipated medical expenses.

 

[rdean]

Public option does not equal better care.

Newfoundland Premier Danny Williams? Heart Surgery in the U.S. Triggers Debate on Healthcare in Canada | Dark Daily



Public option does not create competition it would kill it. Who can compete with a company that can lose billions (that's millions with a "b") and go on deficit spending for years? A public option would stiffle inovation by squeezing reasearch funds.

See with links and facts I don't have to ask hyperbolic questions like "why do some Democrats want to kill Americans with a public option like the Canadian system does? (see link)

You could play that game forever. Here's one that even better:

Insurer's agreement to cover surgery comes too late

"You guys killed my daughter," the diminutive San Fernando Valley real estate agent declared at the lobby security desk. "I want an apology." (17 year old daughter denied surgery - died)
What she got was something quite different.
Cigna employees, looking down into the atrium lobby from a balcony above, began heckling her, she said, with one of them giving her "the finger."

Insurer's agreement to cover surgery comes too late - Los Angeles Times

---------------------------------------------------

Number one cause of bankruptcy - medical bills

----------------------------------------------------

Admit it. Republicans don't give a hoot about American citizens. They care more for insurance companies that stand between doctors and patients. Companies that made 12 billion last year by dropping 2.7 million Americans.

To defend that is just odious. Awful and odious. What kind of people are Republicans? They can't be real citizens. How is that possible?

"Play the game forever"? Really?

How many wealthy American's run to Canada for life saving surgery they can't get in the U.S. every year? Did you even read the link to see how many Canadian women died of cancer that did not have too?

I will "admit" this, tragic things happen in every system ever developed. They are all human creations after all.

However there are aspects of our health care (and more free economy in general) that sadly can not ever be measured in a tit for tat race. Every year American medical technology improves faster than anywhere else on earth. Every year America developes more life saving drugs than anyone. Every year America develops more life saving procedures than anywhere else on earth. Why? We know American's are not superior to other people, our educational system is not as good as most (pre-college... pre-mostly-free market) and we know there is no such thing as a superior "race" of people. It's our system and our freedoms and nothing more.

No one else can keep up with our level of research funding and inovation because no one else has the capital we have. Why? Because their taxes are too high and their regulation is too stringent. Way to much of their money goes to the wealfare statism of socialist policy. They are all equal in their home countries (not counting the political class) but they are all equaly inferior.

The tragedy is not that a handful of Americans die due to lack of public option or that many in other "Western" countries die due to excess of public options. The tragedy (to me) is what could Europe be developing (new drugs, methods, technology) that might save countless future lives if they were more free?

It's the classic "unseen hand" the "rising tide that lifts all boats". Look how far medicine has come in America in the last 50 years. What if Europe was running at our pace too? What if China was? The whole world even? The only thing holding the rest of the world back is their backwards-ass government philosophies. In light of all we know, how insane is it that half our government is now tyring to follow the lead of the backwards world rather than trying to lead everyone else toward our vastly better system?

Why should "wealthy Americans" run to Canada? They're "wealthy". They can afford health care.

So if you aren't wealthy, then what?

Average cost to an emergency room is over $1000. If you are between 45 and 65, it's over $1500. Average cost of one day in hospital is $4,700 and that doesn't include X-rays and other fees. Who pays for all that if someone doesn't have insurance? Come on now, think it through. How does that get paid for? Why won't Republicans answer these questions? Why?

 

[slackjawed]

Ryan demonstrated that he is a toady spouting pre-rehearsed talking points. He obviously has no clue over what is in the bill and is spouting Republican fear rhetoric

Yeah...we "fear" we are going to lose our Country through bankruptcy and the total meltdown that will follow. This Congress should be working on ideas to save us from all this; not trying to find more ways to push the national debt to $14 trillion and more.

The number one cause of bankruptcy now is medical bills.

Tell us you knew that.

insignificant. Just as people deserve the freedom to succeed, people deserve the freedom to fail. You cannot have one without the other.
You might have a valid point, but it is an insignificant one. The fact that people go broke paying for healthcare is not a legitimate reason to sacrifice our freedom.