Most Americans Earn Less Than 1950 Minimum Wage Standard (REPOST)

[Spare_change]

Fifty years ago, if you got a high school diploma, you could find a decent job, you could create a career, and you could advance in life. Today, a high school diploma gets you a low-end job making fries. We have an under-educated work force to meet our needs.

Just a thought ….

You are missing a few key points here though. First, that there are many educated people who can't get a job in their field. And I am not talking about people with a degree in liberal arts or some nonsense. But things like engineering. The school bus driver who comes through my neighborhood to pick up special needs students makes $9/hr, per diem. Now not only is this a specialized job in itself which requires trade training and professional licensing, but he was an engineer making almost $200k per year up until about two years ago now. I first met him about six months after he lost his job. He picked up this job just as something to get by temporarily. In the meantime he has lost his house, his medical coverage, and his wife with the loss of medical coverage. (She died because they could not afford her specialized treatment.) He hasn't has a single sit-down interview in his field since his original career ended with a layoff. That is just ONE example of probably hundreds that I could give.

The country club I used to go to was filled with educated professionals from many fields. IBM has been a major presence in our region since the 1950's, but what was once the IBM country club, had to open to the public in order to stay afloat as pay scales slid, and major layoffs happened. Software developers, engineers, upper level corporate managers, you name it all came to this country club. My part of the state even saw a major influx of professionals from NYC in the last 20 years. Yet more and more of these professionals lost their jobs and wound up as retail managers, bus drivers, laborers, failing entrepreneurs, and outright unemployed. So much so that membership in my country club deteriorated to the point that even the country club itself became a failed business venture and went under. The people who went to this club, the old "upper middle class" as we were known, wound up taking a major step down and for the most part, never went back to work in their professional career paths. Certainly not at the pay scale that was once enough to include a country club membership and a BMW.

My uncle was a bank manager. A chief officer actually, in a what was once a prestigious regional bank, that is GONE now. He tried to kill himself when the place folded, then had a heart attack about a year after that. He has been a shut in now for years because of bad health stemming from his nervous breakdown.

Now to the SECOND point I wanted to make.

There is no reason why the fry cook or the person ringing out your groceries should be making any less than their counterpart in the 1950's. If things are really so much better in this country, they would be paid MORE, not less. When I first entered the workplace, it was at a supermarket where my father had worked when I was born, and where my aunt had made a career. At the time, it seemed reasonable to me that I could make a career out of it myself if I just put in my time like my aunt had done. My father didn't bother to stay there, and took a risk on a career in the culinary arts. My grandparents were restaurant owners, and he had grown up in the business. Seeing the restaurant business from behind the scenes myself though, I thought that just putting in my time at the grocery store seemed a lot more reliable. There were some years and some jobs where my father made HUGE money, and rubbed elbows with celebrities and so forth. Other years, we exchanged canned goods as Christmas gifts. I didn't want to live like that, didn't want my kids to grow up like that, so I seriously considered just putting in my time there at the grocery store like my aunt had done. She managed to own a home, had a swimming pool, never had to move, and raised kids all on her own income. It was the sort of mediocrity I might have been content with. It's a damn good thing I didn't go that route though. One of my exes decided to go that route, and she can't even support herself on her income as the lead cashier at the supermarket, much less a family. So there she is working full time, being paid even MORE than a typical Wal-Mart worker because she works in a union shop, and she STILL has to turn to welfare assistance.

There is NO reason why ANYONE, working ANY job, should be paid less than what is needed to get by on. For a single person, at a national average for basic living expenses, that figure was about $36k annual in 2012. If a single person was making less than that, they were at serious risk of winding up on welfare, or at least turning to subsidy programs of some sort in order to get by.

So, by your own numbers there, HALF of all Americans taxpayers are actually living in poverty, or at serious risk of falling into poverty. The actual poverty level that the government sets, falls well below a practical standard. Was that the case in 1950? Certainly not. You could go out and get a job as a grocery clerk or a salesperson at Macy's or at a factory or and get by just fine. Well enough to raise a family on even, but certainly enough to get by on as a single person. That is not at all the case today. Many people are not cut out for higher education, aren't cut our to own their own business, aren't cut our for white collar jobs. Not because they are stupid or lazy, but simply because that is not their aptitude, and not where they would be happy.

To jump back to my aunt again for a moment, she was like a community icon with all the years she put in there at the grocery store. She loved her job, loved the people, loved the stability. She loved working close to the schools her kids went to, she loved being home with the kids when they got home from school, even though she worked full time everyday. Her schedule was steady. Her pay was less than a lot of professionals out there at the time, but it was enough to get by on. She didn't feel the need to have some school validate her existence, and she didn't feel the need to work 90 hours a week to get ahead and "prove" herself to some company that would just wind up folding or laying her off in the long run anyway. After she retired from the supermarket and her kids were grown, she went and got a PhD in history, and teaches an art history class now at the community college. The funny thing is, she has more money problems now than she ever did when she was working at the grocery store.

Anyway. I am rambling. But you can't honestly believe that the middle class is stronger and better off today than in the past. Jobs that once supported a middle class lifestyle aren't enough to keep people off of welfare now. And jobs that were once part of the upper class, like bank managers, business owners, business managers, technology specialists, now all of those people barely make enough to actually hold on to a middle class lifestyle.

The guy that I bought my chain of movie theaters from lived in a HUGE mansion, had a fleet of collectible cars, a yacht, and an airplane. He lived a lavish lifestyle and didn't have half the headaches and worry that I have had in recent years financially. And I don't just own movie theaters. I also own restaurants, gas stations, rental properties, and so forth. I live in a condo and drive a used car.

I'm going to break this down into multiple responses ... not because they are different, but because if I respond in kind, we'll have the first three chapters of Gone with the Wind.

"You are missing a few key points here though. First, that there are many educated people who can't get a job in their field. And I am not talking about people with a degree in liberal arts or some nonsense. But things like engineering. The school bus driver who comes through my neighborhood to pick up special needs students makes $9/hr, per diem. Now not only is this a specialized job in itself which requires trade training and professional licensing, but he was an engineer making almost $200k per year up until about two years ago now. I first met him about six months after he lost his job. He picked up this job just as something to get by temporarily. In the meantime he has lost his house, his medical coverage, and his wife with the loss of medical coverage. (She died because they could not afford her specialized treatment.) He hasn't has a single sit-down interview in his field since his original career ended with a layoff. That is just ONE example of probably hundreds that I could give."

First, I was an engineer (satellite systems) for over 30 years ... I can honestly say I never met an engineer who made $200K a year. Secondly, if your friend did make $200K, and he didn't invest/save enough to be independent, then he's a damn fool who should be driving a school bus. Third, I suspect the reason he can't get a job is because he priced himself out of the market. He undoubtedly believes he is worth every big of $200K ... but he isn't. So, he turns his nose up at $65K engineering jobs. I'm curious what his career field might be ... a lot of engineering jobs have been overtaken by progress. It should tell you something when he "... hasn't has a single sit-down interview in his field since his original career ended with a layoff... "

So, while anecdotal, I don't think your example represents any trends.

 

[Spare_change]

Fifty years ago, if you got a high school diploma, you could find a decent job, you could create a career, and you could advance in life. Today, a high school diploma gets you a low-end job making fries. We have an under-educated work force to meet our needs.

Just a thought ….

You are missing a few key points here though. First, that there are many educated people who can't get a job in their field. And I am not talking about people with a degree in liberal arts or some nonsense. But things like engineering. The school bus driver who comes through my neighborhood to pick up special needs students makes $9/hr, per diem. Now not only is this a specialized job in itself which requires trade training and professional licensing, but he was an engineer making almost $200k per year up until about two years ago now. I first met him about six months after he lost his job. He picked up this job just as something to get by temporarily. In the meantime he has lost his house, his medical coverage, and his wife with the loss of medical coverage. (She died because they could not afford her specialized treatment.) He hasn't has a single sit-down interview in his field since his original career ended with a layoff. That is just ONE example of probably hundreds that I could give.

The country club I used to go to was filled with educated professionals from many fields. IBM has been a major presence in our region since the 1950's, but what was once the IBM country club, had to open to the public in order to stay afloat as pay scales slid, and major layoffs happened. Software developers, engineers, upper level corporate managers, you name it all came to this country club. My part of the state even saw a major influx of professionals from NYC in the last 20 years. Yet more and more of these professionals lost their jobs and wound up as retail managers, bus drivers, laborers, failing entrepreneurs, and outright unemployed. So much so that membership in my country club deteriorated to the point that even the country club itself became a failed business venture and went under. The people who went to this club, the old "upper middle class" as we were known, wound up taking a major step down and for the most part, never went back to work in their professional career paths. Certainly not at the pay scale that was once enough to include a country club membership and a BMW.

My uncle was a bank manager. A chief officer actually, in a what was once a prestigious regional bank, that is GONE now. He tried to kill himself when the place folded, then had a heart attack about a year after that. He has been a shut in now for years because of bad health stemming from his nervous breakdown.

Now to the SECOND point I wanted to make.

There is no reason why the fry cook or the person ringing out your groceries should be making any less than their counterpart in the 1950's. If things are really so much better in this country, they would be paid MORE, not less. When I first entered the workplace, it was at a supermarket where my father had worked when I was born, and where my aunt had made a career. At the time, it seemed reasonable to me that I could make a career out of it myself if I just put in my time like my aunt had done. My father didn't bother to stay there, and took a risk on a career in the culinary arts. My grandparents were restaurant owners, and he had grown up in the business. Seeing the restaurant business from behind the scenes myself though, I thought that just putting in my time at the grocery store seemed a lot more reliable. There were some years and some jobs where my father made HUGE money, and rubbed elbows with celebrities and so forth. Other years, we exchanged canned goods as Christmas gifts. I didn't want to live like that, didn't want my kids to grow up like that, so I seriously considered just putting in my time there at the grocery store like my aunt had done. She managed to own a home, had a swimming pool, never had to move, and raised kids all on her own income. It was the sort of mediocrity I might have been content with. It's a damn good thing I didn't go that route though. One of my exes decided to go that route, and she can't even support herself on her income as the lead cashier at the supermarket, much less a family. So there she is working full time, being paid even MORE than a typical Wal-Mart worker because she works in a union shop, and she STILL has to turn to welfare assistance.

There is NO reason why ANYONE, working ANY job, should be paid less than what is needed to get by on. For a single person, at a national average for basic living expenses, that figure was about $36k annual in 2012. If a single person was making less than that, they were at serious risk of winding up on welfare, or at least turning to subsidy programs of some sort in order to get by.

So, by your own numbers there, HALF of all Americans taxpayers are actually living in poverty, or at serious risk of falling into poverty. The actual poverty level that the government sets, falls well below a practical standard. Was that the case in 1950? Certainly not. You could go out and get a job as a grocery clerk or a salesperson at Macy's or at a factory or and get by just fine. Well enough to raise a family on even, but certainly enough to get by on as a single person. That is not at all the case today. Many people are not cut out for higher education, aren't cut our to own their own business, aren't cut our for white collar jobs. Not because they are stupid or lazy, but simply because that is not their aptitude, and not where they would be happy.

To jump back to my aunt again for a moment, she was like a community icon with all the years she put in there at the grocery store. She loved her job, loved the people, loved the stability. She loved working close to the schools her kids went to, she loved being home with the kids when they got home from school, even though she worked full time everyday. Her schedule was steady. Her pay was less than a lot of professionals out there at the time, but it was enough to get by on. She didn't feel the need to have some school validate her existence, and she didn't feel the need to work 90 hours a week to get ahead and "prove" herself to some company that would just wind up folding or laying her off in the long run anyway. After she retired from the supermarket and her kids were grown, she went and got a PhD in history, and teaches an art history class now at the community college. The funny thing is, she has more money problems now than she ever did when she was working at the grocery store.

Anyway. I am rambling. But you can't honestly believe that the middle class is stronger and better off today than in the past. Jobs that once supported a middle class lifestyle aren't enough to keep people off of welfare now. And jobs that were once part of the upper class, like bank managers, business owners, business managers, technology specialists, now all of those people barely make enough to actually hold on to a middle class lifestyle.

The guy that I bought my chain of movie theaters from lived in a HUGE mansion, had a fleet of collectible cars, a yacht, and an airplane. He lived a lavish lifestyle and didn't have half the headaches and worry that I have had in recent years financially. And I don't just own movie theaters. I also own restaurants, gas stations, rental properties, and so forth. I live in a condo and drive a used car.

The country club I used to go to was filled with educated professionals from many fields. IBM has been a major presence in our region since the 1950's, but what was once the IBM country club, had to open to the public in order to stay afloat as pay scales slid, and major layoffs happened. Software developers, engineers, upper level corporate managers, you name it all came to this country club. My part of the state even saw a major influx of professionals from NYC in the last 20 years. Yet more and more of these professionals lost their jobs and wound up as retail managers, bus drivers, laborers, failing entrepreneurs, and outright unemployed. So much so that membership in my country club deteriorated to the point that even the country club itself became a failed business venture and went under. The people who went to this club, the old "upper middle class" as we were known, wound up taking a major step down and for the most part, never went back to work in their professional career paths. Certainly not at the pay scale that was once enough to include a country club membership and a BMW.

Again, this is anecdotal in nature ... but is reflective of what is happening to all country clubs nationwide. It has nothing to do with income. It has everything to do with lifestyle. Younger generations don't see golf, etc., as the status symbol we did. Joining the country club was a sign that you had 'made it'. Not any more .. Simply, your membership got older, and you didn't have any younger members to replace them. The same has happened in my country club, and every country club everywhere.

 

[SteadyMercury]

Yeah sorry about the time you were high up in the tree and broke your leg falling out.

 

[Spare_change]

"There is NO reason why ANYONE, working ANY job, should be paid less than what is needed to get by on. For a single person, at a national average for basic living expenses, that figure was about $36k annual in 2012. If a single person was making less than that, they were at serious risk of winding up on welfare, or at least turning to subsidy programs of some sort in order to get by."

Actually, there is a very good reason. You are under a serious misconception that the owner has a responsibility to ensure his workers "... should be paid ... what is needed to get by on..."

That's exactly incorrect. Labor is a product, and just like any other product, its price will be dictated by its supply and demand. When demand for a product is high, the price is high. When demand for a product is low, the price is low. The problem is much more basic than that ... the labor for sale today is not the labor the market needs.

As you saw in the previous posts, high-need labor gets high income (software engineers make $120K) because it produces a marketable, saleable product. Common labor workers are seeing their wages depressed, because they don't contribute enough to the workplace to justify higher wages.

Simply, you're trying to sell a product nobody wants, and complaining because they're not willing to pay premium prices for a product they don't want.

 

[SteadyMercury]

For the record I'm a software engineer and jobs are damn easy to come by. I don't go a week without recruiters contacting about an opportunity nor a month without a former coworker or boss contacting me attempting a poach.

Your mileage may vary, but hey anecdotes are fun.

 

[Spare_change]

"So, by your own numbers there, HALF of all Americans taxpayers are actually living in poverty, or at serious risk of falling into poverty. The actual poverty level that the government sets, falls well below a practical standard. Was that the case in 1950? Certainly not. You could go out and get a job as a grocery clerk or a salesperson at Macy's or at a factory or and get by just fine. Well enough to raise a family on even, but certainly enough to get by on as a single person. That is not at all the case today. Many people are not cut out for higher education, aren't cut our to own their own business, aren't cut our for white collar jobs. Not because they are stupid or lazy, but simply because that is not their aptitude, and not where they would be happy."

The average wage at WalMart today is $11.81 for part-time workers.

You're right, though ... if you aren't educated or trained, you're not marketable ... all the crying in the world isn't going to change that. It truly is as simple as that. You can complain, you can wail, you can demonstrate, but the real truth is simple ... if you aren't going to make me money, I'm not going to hire you. I am a businessman, not a charity. My responsibility to the world is to make money - money that can be used to hire more contributing workers, money that can be used to create more products, money that can be used to pay for your retirement, money that can be used to help the less fortunate. But for you to insist that I waste my money on somebody who isn't willing to get the education or training necessary to be marketable .... ain't gonna happen.

 

[Spare_change]

For the record I'm a software engineer and jobs are damn easy to come by. I don't go a week without recruiters contacting about an opportunity nor a month without a former coworker or boss contacting me attempting a poach.

Your mileage may vary, but hey anecdotes are fun.

Thank you --- just checked the local job board. There are all kinds of jobs for all kinds of QUALIFIED workers ... not so much for those with no marketable skills. Without actually counting, I would say the ratio was 40-to-1. There were also a lot of job listings with dates that indicate they have been looking for a lengthy period of time.

 

[SteadyMercury]

National Poverty Center University of Michigan

In the late 1950s, the poverty rate for all Americans was 22.4 percent, or 39.5 million individuals. These numbers declined steadily throughout the 1960s, reaching a low of 11.1 percent, or 22.9 million individuals, in 1973. Over the next decade, the poverty rate fluctuated between 11.1 and 12.6 percent, but it began to rise steadily again in 1980. By 1983, the number of poor individuals had risen to 35.3 million individuals, or 15.2 percent.

For the next ten years, the poverty rate remained above 12.8 percent, increasing to 15.1 percent, or 39.3 million individuals, by 1993. The rate declined for the remainder of the decade, to 11.3 percent by 2000. From 2000 to 2004 it rose each year to 12.7 in 2004.

Yep, things were swine and roses in the glorious 50s.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

I think the solution is more to do with limiting the ceo's, the board and the super rich from taking the profit away from the workers. A minimum wage is a half measure, but a important as it stops them from paying even lower wages, but we can see it doesn't go far enough. My advise is to Tie the lowest paid employee and ceo by percentage....What we need to do is drain the wealth down to the workers.

I support 10.75 per hour for the minimum wage.

I disagree. I am a capitalist. I don't believe there should ever be arbitrary limits set on my profits directly. On the other hand, I do believe that employers have a responsibility to pay their workers enough to live on, without social subsidies of any kind. That figure was $17.47/hr x 40 in 2012. True capitalism means pay your own bills. The true cost of labor is one of those operating expenses.

If you read the Walmart Affect you learn that if they give all their profits to workers it would amount to $3.00 / hour. But without Walmart profits our greatest success there would be no Walmart.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

[


The rich are taking a lot more of the pie that should be going to the worker. Would you agree?

Too stupid they don't take anything. It is given to them in voluntary relationships. Liberals take from our workers by giving jobs to 20 million illegals.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

too stupid of course, you have admitted that there are far more cars today per capita which then could only be possible if people could afford those cars which you said they could not!

A shift in necessities does not prove affordability.

Dear if people can afford more and more cars and TV,s per capita it means they are getting far richer.

 

[Moonglow]

[


The rich are taking a lot more of the pie that should be going to the worker. Would you agree?

Too stupid they don't take anything. It is given to them in voluntary relationships. Liberals take from our workers by giving jobs to 20 million illegals.

Thank you liberal Reagan.....

 

[Spare_change]

If you believe the original thesis, I recommend you read Thomas Piketty's "Capital in the 21st Century".

 

[Jackinthebox]

too stupid of course, you have admitted that there are far more cars today per capita which then could only be possible if people could afford those cars which you said they could not!

A shift in necessities does not prove affordability.

Dear if people can afford more and more cars and TV,s per capita it means they are getting far richer.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

too stupid of course, you have admitted that there are far more cars today per capita which then could only be possible if people could afford those cars which you said they could not!

A shift in necessities does not prove affordability.

Dear if people can afford more and more cars and TV,s per capita it means they are getting far richer.

Dear if people can afford more and more cars and TV's per capita it means they are getting far richer thus disproving OP.