More teenage mothers emerge in Texas polygamy probe

[Ravi]

Totally.

It's funny, I guess all those black churches are just a front for drug dealers.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

Are you suggesting that Ghetto people are black?

I can tell you that my sister teaches special education in the state of Florida, in what would be labeled an ALL WHITE school district north of tampa.

Only 1 child out of her 27 students, lives with both parents, and that child's parents are two gay men that adopted him at this boy's birth.

She did have mostly white single mothers, some drug addict mothers and some mothers living with some of her other kid's fathers and some kid's father's living with other kid's mothers...but no dad's, biological dad's were in the picture, with their own biological kids.... and I don't think any of them ever were legally married then divorced....

I spent a day at her school as a visitor/helper and believe you me, my sis had her hands full with these kids and their parents....to SAY the least.....and not one was living in a ghetto! Just poor white folk, living in the sticks....in the middle of nowhere land.

What makes you think all ghettos are black? They come in all flavors.

Single mothers are the bane of our society....people today act like animals...no real commitments....just rut, reproduce, repeat...secular "progressives" have turned our society upside down and eroded moral values until they are almost non-existent.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

Totally.

It's funny, I guess all those black churches are just a front for drug dealers.

Could be.

Or they're just social places to come and sing...and damn America...

 

[Care4all]

okay, here is texas on statutory ....

Texas

§ 22. 011
Sexual assault for anyone to intentionally or knowingly penetrate a person under age 17, other than his spouse.

The actor has an affirmative defense if he is not more than three years older than the victim, who is at least age 14

Two to 20 years in prison

also this regarding rape...

In accordance with the FBI definition, statutory rape is characterized as non-forcible sexual intercourse with a person who is younger than the statutory age of consent. The actual ages for these laws vary greatly from state-to-state, as do the punishments for offenders.

Many states do not use the actual term "statutory rape," simply calling it rape or unlawful sexual penetration among a variety of other titles. These laws rarely apply only to intercourse, but rather to any type of sexual contact. Dating someone without sexual contact cannot be considered a form of statutory rape, and is almost never illegal. All states have an "age of consent," or an age at which a person can legally consent to sexual activity and can then no longer be a victim of statutory rape.

Some states also have laws that take into consideration the "age difference" between both people involved. In many states, the more years there are between the adult and the minor, the more serious the offense. All states have laws with special consideration and age restrictions where a relationship involves a person of authority over a minor; this includes but is not limited to, teachers, coaches, assistant coaches, or tutors.

Generally, the age of consent is 18 in these situations and the penalties for violation of these laws are more severe. These laws change, and can vary depending on other circumstances.

get that in bold/underlined, allie? church leaders would be included or church elders imo!

 

[AllieBaba]

Pretty much what I said already.

 

[Angel Heart]

Many states don't have that sort of clause.

Most states also have clauses stating underaged girls can marry with their parents' ok. In which case, the state has no authority to interfere.

Show me one that doesn't...

 

[Angel Heart]

This is exactly what I said. In some states it doesn't matter what the ages, underage is underage and it's a crime.

In which case, it would be right and good to raid abortion clinics for underaged, pregnant girls, and take them into custody until their safety can be guaranteed and the people responsible for her pregnancy are behind bars.

Love how you went from MANY states to SOME states.... I'd say it's FEW states.

 

[Care4all]

Originally Posted by AllieBaba
Many states don't have that sort of clause.

Most states also have clauses stating underaged girls can marry with their parents' ok. In which case, the state has no authority to interfere.

NO STATE, has it that a girl can be married to anyone, under the age of 16 without the parents permission, nor without the permission of the State, the decision usually made by a Judge.

Also note, that EVERY STATE in one way or another has a law that an older person of authority, like a teacher, or a coach, or an elder in your Church of a child that has sex with a child before the age of 18 is committing statutory rape....

And lastly, NONE, I repeat NONE of these girls, GOT legally MARRIED...they were NOT married, got it? These men that raped them WERE NOT MARRIED to these girls that they slept with ACCORDING TO THE LAW....thus, they have broken the law imo?

Let alone the fact that it appears that some of them may have been younger than 16 when betroved illegally to these old dogs...which also is against the law, it takes a judge's approval along with parents approval under those circumstances....

How many times can it be said....they did NOT have their parent's legal permission to marry even if the girls were over 16, because NONE of these girls were given to a person that legally married them...these men were already married, polygyny is against the law in the united states.....a man can not legally have more than one wife in the usa?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Ohh Look, some one besides us supporters of child rapists believe that the State went to far.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080425/ap_on_re_us/polygamist_retreat

 

[Care4all]

Oh, and one more thing.....no one, absolutely no child under the age of 14 can be married in the United States...even with the parent's permission along with a Judge's decision....

no girl or boy under the age of 14 can legally be married off...or married by their will or anyone's will, PERIOD.

As far as whether this raid was just or not, this will be seen and I am open to the fact, that it might not have been.

Care

 

[dread]

Ohh Look, some one besides us supporters of child rapists believe that the State went to far.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080425/ap_on_re_us/polygamist_retreat

You know....I understand and can appreciate where you are coming from. Granville vs. Troxille in the USSC decision confirmed that parents have rights over their kids. And that barring any kind of abuse people dont have a right to interfere in their upbringing.

I understand that you want none of that ever happing to your family. You dont want the government interfering in how you go about your business....


BUT!!!!! You are probably not one of those abusers or psycho fucks that would be in need of this.



So what if... These girls ARE between the ages of 11 and 16 and ARE pregnant? Do you think we should just allow them to go back to the cult and live happily ever after?


And what if you had a daughter who decided to join a cult. Would YOU personally leave her be? More imporatantly would you LET the cult do whatever they wanted to your grandchild?



These girls, in this cult, aren't like girls we see in society today. I dont even think the 16 to 18 year olds have the wherewithal to even phantom what is really going on. You know as well as I do that just because someone is 18 and LEGALLY an adult doesn't mean they have the capacity to make sound adult decisions.


Why o' why would you want these children to be left at the hands of some monsters is beyond me. Do you NOT have compassion for others?

 

[ScreamingEagle]

I think they should bust up the "cult" on the basis of polygamy ALONE. The abuse of children stems from that basic marriage arrangement. It's quite obvious to the public that it is a polygamous setup. They should be arresting the adults immediately....not just messing around with the children.

I know this approach would get liberals all in a lather because they think people should be able to live together anyway they see fit. And that may be fine for adults but when CHILDREN are involved it becomes a different matter. I think society should seriously EMPHASIZE the idea that children should be raised in the basic family unit with one mother and one father. Enough of this polygamy and gay marriage and single mother on welfare bullshit.

I wish liberals would wake up and realize that it is ALWAYS the children that suffer.

 

[jillian]

Of course, because an arrangement among consenting adults is exactly the same as raping young girls.

And of course, thats all the same as not interfering in what adults choose.

You're so hysterical that you can't even distinguish between issues.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

Of course, because an arrangement among consenting adults is exactly the same as raping young girls.

And of course, thats all the same as not interfering in what adults choose.

You're so hysterical that you can't even distinguish between issues.

You are the one who's hysterical. If you have any brains your smug liberal beliefs are disintegrating before your very eyes as the evils of polygamy surface...child rape and abuse are just part and parcel of the practice.

If you can drop the denial you will realize that polygamy is actually very sick and destructive in nature and not only leads to harming the innocent but is also a danger to society in general.

Polygamy is illegal in all 50 states and with good reason. Our ancestors were correct in banning it from society.

Polygamy's negative effects on children in these communities are well-documented and truly shocking. We know from firsthand accounts and court cases that child rape, incest, physical abuse, sexual abuse and child marriage often occur within those closed sects.

To keep girls ignorant of the fact that these activities are wrong and illegal, intellectual and physical isolation is necessary. Children are rarely given an education past elementary school, and if girls run away, they are pursued and often beaten if they are caught.

Dorothy Allred Solomon's 2003 autobiography, Predators, Prey and Other Kinfolk, offers a typical account of childhood in one of these communities. Mrs. Solomon describes herself as the "only daughter of my father's fourth plural wife, 28th of 48 children," growing up in an environment in which personal identity was erased and violent behavior was often ignored.

Last year, Allen Rex Harrod, the self-proclaimed prophet of a California polygamous community, was arrested on 97 counts of child molestation. Three adults and one child have accused him of abuses spanning a quarter of a century. One of his wives is accused of observing and photographing some of these acts.

And last year, Mr. Jeffs, the man now coming to Eldorado (who is reported, by the way, to have 60 wives himself), expelled 20 church members and "reassigned" their wives and children to others.

According to the Utah attorney general, there was a power struggle in the community, and some who were expelled provided evidence to the police of child abuse, incest, sexual assault, racketeering and welfare fraud. Three 16-year-old girls fled the community after the expulsion, two of them claiming they were about to be forced into marriages with much older men.

...

What is it about polygamy that makes the roots so deep and destructive? Some suggest that the economics of one man trying to provide for so many families inevitably leads to poverty and crime. (Welfare fraud is rampant in polygamous communities, with as much as 50 percent of the population relying on public assistance.)

Others say the jealousy generated by plural marriages corrodes families and individuals. Or that the dissolution of individual identity in such communities simply leads to a lack of respect for other human beings.

Whatever the case, polygamy is not an activity whose effects are restricted to the bedroom and consenting adults. Rather, it seems to corrupt civil society as a whole, destroying education, individual rights and the rule of law – in other words, the foundations of democratic governance. Just as with slavery, to which polygamy was compared in the presidential election of 1856, even a single instance can fundamentally alter a society.

http://www.dallasnews.com/s/dws/dn/opinion/points/stories/060505dnediriley.112aa3bd4.html

 

[BrianH]

Texas law enforcement had the right to raid the place based just on the fact that they are polygamist (ILLEGAL in Texas). So no matter which way anyone looks at it, they were committing illegal acts. Then you throw in the abuse(marrying underage girls, forceful sex, beating infants,etc...), and we have a wee little combo of illegal activities.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

Texas law enforcement had the right to raid the place based just on the fact that they are polygamist (ILLEGAL in Texas). So no matter which way anyone looks at it, they were committing illegal acts. Then you throw in the abuse(marrying underage girls, forceful sex, beating infants,etc...), and we have a wee little combo of illegal activities.

Exactly. All kinds of illegal activities. Polygamy in an of itself should be the target of prosecution.

Law enforcement should not just sit around and wait until one of the poor victims manages to escape who maybe has the guts to also call the police to make a formal complaint. This almost never happens because the cult's physical control is so threatening plus the brain-washing is enbedded so deeply. The few who do manage to escape (both mentally and physically) are the rare exception. As stated in my earlier article:

Law enforcement, citing a lack of resources, generally doesn't target "adult consensual bigamy" despite flagrant violation of polygamy laws. Instead, it waits for victims of its associated crimes to surface.

This is apparently the course that the authorities in Eldorado plan to pursue. County Justice of the Peace Jimmy Doyle explained that there is nothing he can do "until one of the girls comes into my office and raises her hand and swears they've been molested by so-and-so."

Acknowledging the problem, he notes, "That's never going to happen."

David Leavitt, the prosecutor in the Tom Green case, agrees that such a course would be fruitless. "These societies are so secretive and the women are so controlled and manipulated from birth that you almost never see victims" coming forward.

Vicky Prunty, head of the Salt Lake City support group Tapestry Against Polygamy, which helps children and women escape polygamous situations, notes that trying to stop these crimes without prosecuting polygamy is "like clipping the leaves without ever getting to the roots."

http://www.dallasnews.com/s/dws/dn/opinion/points/stories/060505dnediriley.112aa3bd4.html

It really ticks me off that they've let all the men escape in this case without even bringing them in for whatever legal restraint is needed to eventually bring them to justice for the crime of polygamy.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Man on man sex... ok, multiple partners, ok IF you take no responsibility for those partners. As soon as a man or woman has 2 permanent partners, bad bad bad. Got ya.

 

[Ravi]

You are the one who's hysterical. If you have any brains your smug liberal beliefs are disintegrating before your very eyes as the evils of polygamy surface...child rape and abuse are just part and parcel of the practice.

If you can drop the denial you will realize that polygamy is actually very sick and destructive in nature and not only leads to harming the innocent but is also a danger to society in general.

Polygamy is illegal in all 50 states and with good reason. Our ancestors were correct in banning it from society.

While I have serious reservations about polygamy and have no desire to engage in it myself I think you are making a stretch that polygamy causes these behaviors.

Oh, and the part about the "man" having to provide for so many families...what a laugh. Like the multiple wives or multiple husbands can't get jobs themselves.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

While I have serious reservations about polygamy and have no desire to engage in it myself I think you are making a stretch that polygamy causes these behaviors.

Oh, and the part about the "man" having to provide for so many families...what a laugh. Like the multiple wives or multiple husbands can't get jobs themselves.

Show me a "successful" polygamist community.

Man on man sex... ok, multiple partners, ok IF you take no responsibility for those partners. As soon as a man or woman has 2 permanent partners, bad bad bad. Got ya.

What exactly do you mean here? I don't agree with man on man sex nor multiple partners for whom there is no responsibility. They are all forms of social disintegration.

 

[BrianH]

Man on man sex... ok, multiple partners, ok IF you take no responsibility for those partners. As soon as a man or woman has 2 permanent partners, bad bad bad. Got ya.

why is man on man sex the first thing that comes to mind???...