More Photos, Videos in Iraq Abuse Scandal-Rumsfeld

[spillmind]

source

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The abuse scandal at Abu Ghraib prison includes more photographs and videos that are potentially worse than the photos shown around the world of smiling American soldiers next to naked Iraqi prisoners in humiliating positions, U.S. officials said on Friday.

Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, at a Senate Armed Services Committee hearing, said there were many more photos and videotapes that had not been published showing cruel and sadistic acts by U.S. personnel.

"I've said today that there are a lot more photographs and videos that exist. If these are released to the public, obviously it's going to make matters worse. That's just a fact," Rumsfeld said.

"I mean I looked at them last night and they're hard to believe," he said. "And if they're sent to some news organization and taken out of the criminal prosecution

channels that they're in, that's where we'll be. And it's not a pretty picture."

The photographs published so far have shown naked Iraqi prisoners piled on top of each other. One prisoner is shown with a leash around his neck held by a female American soldier, and one has women's underwear over his head.

Sen. Lindsey Graham, a South Carolina Republican, asked Rumsfeld during the hearing whether he had seen the video. Rumsfeld said he had not seen it.

"Apparently the worst is yet to come potentially in terms of disturbing events," Graham said.

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and there are people here think it's just like rush said: hazing. there are people here who actually CONDONE this kind of stuff. do they not see the ramifications of these actions? i argue it is effectively undoing what progress we have made in iraq.

not too smooth, guys. not too smooth.

 

[insein]

Where has anyone, ANYONE CONDONED THESE ACTS? Rush hasnt. Hannity hasnt. Bush hasnt. Rumsfield hasnt. No one on here has. No one condones these acts as far as i can tell.

What i have a problem with is people now asking for Rumsfield's head when he is in charge of 200,000 soldiers in the Middle East of which 7 caused an incident. No one really cares about the iraqis prisoners or even the iraqi people. They only care about attacking Bush.

 

[Palestinian Jew]

I avoided listening to rush this week just so I wouldn't have to hear that kind of crap. If you want to think this is hazing, fine. But what we need to do now in Iraq is win the hearts and minds of the iraqis, and this abuse undermines that attempt.
And lets not forget that this is perfect recruiting material for al Qaeda, especially when they can show boys who were on the fence that what they've been saying was right to get them to join.
Then of course it just reaffirms the hate the middle east has for the united states. This does not amount to "hazing".

 

[DKSuddeth]

is it just me, or did rumsfeld actually try to say that if these photos are published then they'd have to be removed from use as evidence in prosecution?

 

[insein]

There is that hearts and minds bullshit again. What would you have us do then? Im very curious how we should gain the hearts and minds of people who have hated us before we went there and still hate us just as much. We arent going to change the m inds of terrorists. As for the iraqi people. The best way to win their hearts and minds is to stop fucking around and take out those insurgents so the Iraqis can get on with life.

 

[DKSuddeth]

Originally posted by insein
There is that hearts and minds bullshit again. What would you have us do then? Im very curious how we should gain the hearts and minds of people who have hated us before we went there and still hate us just as much. We arent going to change the m inds of terrorists. As for the iraqi people. The best way to win their hearts and minds is to stop fucking around and take out those insurgents so the Iraqis can get on with life.

It has to be done delicately and this abuse issue won't make a hill of beans because thier culture and religion base is going to unite these people over anything else. do anything that offends the culture or religion and you will swing these civilians to the insurgent side. Once that happens and the inurgents outnumber the civilians we no longer have an occupation, we have a pullout.

 

[insein]

Originally posted by DKSuddeth
It has to be done delicately and this abuse issue won't make a hill of beans because thier culture and religion base is going to unite these people over anything else. do anything that offends the culture or religion and you will swing these civilians to the insurgent side. Once that happens and the inurgents outnumber the civilians we no longer have an occupation, we have a pullout.

That is why we should take out Sadr and these insurgents now so that we don't have anymore swing insurgents, as you have stated yourself.

 

[DKSuddeth]

Originally posted by insein
That is why we should take out Sadr and these insurgents now so that we don't have anymore swing insurgents, as you have stated yourself.

exactly, but we have to deal with the abuse issue correctly and deal with the religion part delicately. The sunni and shi'ite radicals are teaming together.

 

[insein]

Originally posted by DKSuddeth
exactly, but we have to deal with the abuse issue correctly and deal with the religion part delicately. The sunni and shi'ite radicals are teaming together.

I agree with that. I just don't agree with people who still harp on this incident as an atrocity bordering on the holocaust. Their partisan politics are transparent when they ask for rummy's head and praise Kerry.

 

[DKSuddeth]

Originally posted by insein
I agree with that. I just don't agree with people who still harp on this incident as an atrocity bordering on the holocaust. Their partisan politics are transparent when they ask for rummy's head and praise Kerry.

the holocaust remarks are way overboard. i agree. so is asking for SecDef's resignation so early. If its found out that Rums is responsible for trying to supress the story, maybe then, but now is not the time.

 

[insein]

Originally posted by DKSuddeth
the holocaust remarks are way overboard. i agree. so is asking for SecDef's resignation so early. If its found out that Rums is responsible for trying to supress the story, maybe then, but now is not the time.

Still has any other Secretary of Defense been fired due to soldier behaviors in a war or conflict? Im asking cause im not aware of The vietnam era since i wasnt around. Who was the secretary of Defense then and was he removed from his position for the Vietnam atrocities?

 

[DKSuddeth]

I'm not aware of any. I don't have the time to research it at work but I may later tonite. Still, I would think that had something like that happened, the press would have already said something like 'the last time a SecDef was forced to resign blah blah blah....'

 

[insein]

Originally posted by DKSuddeth
I'm not aware of any. I don't have the time to research it at work but I may later tonite. Still, I would think that had something like that happened, the press would have already said something like 'the last time a SecDef was forced to resign blah blah blah....'

Exactly. Which is why this is another very transparent attack against Bush.

 

[spillmind]

Where has anyone, ANYONE CONDONED THESE ACTS? Rush hasnt. Hannity hasnt. Bush hasnt. Rumsfield hasnt. No one on here has. No one condones these acts as far as i can tell.

come on, dude, try reading past threads. LIKE THE LAST ONE ON THIS SUBJECT?!

if you weren't so damn DEFENSIVE, you'd realise this is very bad for our situation in iraq, and subsequently, bad for the bush camp. so cry me a river about your president taking heat over it all.

 

[insein]

Originally posted by spillmind
come on, dude, try reading past threads. LIKE THE LAST ONE ON THIS SUBJECT?!

if you weren't so damn DEFENSIVE, you'd realise this is very bad for our situation in iraq, and subsequently, bad for the bush camp. so cry me a river about your president taking heat over it all.

And again, where is your outrage against the insurgents that killed the civilian contractors and soldiers and drug their bodies through the streets. People like that are held in these prisons. Its not everyday Iraqis that are being held in these prisons by and large. A vast majority of these people have done something to deserve to be in that prison.

I suggest you go back and reread that thread as well. In it no one said it was a good thing that it happened. No one said "hey this is great that we're abusing these people." Go quote for me where anyone said this was a good thing that this happened.