More lefties learn the glory of the 15 dollar minimum wage....unemployment.....

[Brain357]

You asked the question wrong .... how many work hours have been created?

We all know that the government has changed the way they calculate the unemployment rate, in order to hide the truth. So, how many of these supposed jobs are full time jobs? What is the average wage per hour of these newly created jobs?

You can't accept the numbers prima facie ... you need to look at the reality that created the numbers.

Sorry but your claims have been proven false. Despite increased machine use unemployment is going down.

You need to revisit this "unemployment is going down' mantra ... it is, simply, false. You are accepting manipulated data put forth by those who are best served by the manipulation.

If employment is going down, why is our labor force participation rate the lowest in 75 years? What is the average $/hour for our workers? What is the average hours/worker trending negative? Counting a part-time job as if it is a full time job is, simply, misleading the public.

All Brain does is rehash the same crap over and over.

History doesn't change and the facts are the facts.

But you attempting to extrapolate from history to predict the future.

I just posted the results from a city that went to $15. They are fine.

 

[hadit]

Sorry but your claims have been proven false. Despite increased machine use unemployment is going down.

You need to revisit this "unemployment is going down' mantra ... it is, simply, false. You are accepting manipulated data put forth by those who are best served by the manipulation.

If employment is going down, why is our labor force participation rate the lowest in 75 years? What is the average $/hour for our workers? What is the average hours/worker trending negative? Counting a part-time job as if it is a full time job is, simply, misleading the public.

All Brain does is rehash the same crap over and over.

History doesn't change and the facts are the facts.

But you attempting to extrapolate from history to predict the future.

I just posted the results from a city that went to $15. They are fine.

Didn't you say repeatedly that it will take years to get that high?

 

[Brain357]

For Seattle but apparently not for Seatac. In the real world when min wage increases the sky doesn't fall. Proven over and over.

 

[Steinlight]

How many times has minimum wage increased 60-90%? Your argument holds no validity.

We both know it won't be increasing that much.

We do? Maybe you haven't been paying attention .... Seattle, $15/hr ... San Francisco, $15/hr ... etc., etc., etc.

These cities should make an interesting test case because the increase is substantial and there aren't as many other factors involve as in a nationwide increase. If opponents of minimum wage are correct, then we should see massive reductions in low income employment are substantial increase in prices. I know the University of Washington is conducting a study that will last a number of years and may shed some light on the issue.

I don't see why we need studies to prove something that is easily explainable with a basic supply and demand graph.

But the Neumark-Wascher study, which has been used by minimum wage advocates to show that minimum wage in fact increases employment, has been revised, with Neumark and Wascher now concluding that in fact minimum wage does reduce overall employment.

estimates based on the payroll data suggest that the New Jersey minimum wage increase led to a 4.6 percent decrease in employment in New Jersey relative to the Pennsylvania control group. This decrease is statistically significant at the five-percent level and implies an elasticity of employment with respect to the minimum wage of -0.24.

The Effect of New Jersey s Minimum Wage Increase on Fast-Food Employment A Re-Evaluation Using Payroll Records

The idea minimum wage doesn't adversely affect employment, or somehow improves overall employment, is a revisionist view not held by most economists.

We have history. Min wage has increased many times without an increase in unemployment.

That's not true, among lower wage workers at or near minimum wage and among teenagers, unemployment does increase. And it certainly reduces the potential overall employment rate.

 

[Brain357]

We both know it won't be increasing that much.

We do? Maybe you haven't been paying attention .... Seattle, $15/hr ... San Francisco, $15/hr ... etc., etc., etc.

These cities should make an interesting test case because the increase is substantial and there aren't as many other factors involve as in a nationwide increase. If opponents of minimum wage are correct, then we should see massive reductions in low income employment are substantial increase in prices. I know the University of Washington is conducting a study that will last a number of years and may shed some light on the issue.

I don't see why we need studies to prove something that is easily explainable with a basic supply and demand graph.

But the Neumark-Wascher study, which has been used by minimum wage advocates to show that minimum wage in fact increases employment, has been revised, with Neumark and Wascher now concluding that in fact minimum wage does reduce overall employment.

estimates based on the payroll data suggest that the New Jersey minimum wage increase led to a 4.6 percent decrease in employment in New Jersey relative to the Pennsylvania control group. This decrease is statistically significant at the five-percent level and implies an elasticity of employment with respect to the minimum wage of -0.24.

The Effect of New Jersey s Minimum Wage Increase on Fast-Food Employment A Re-Evaluation Using Payroll Records

The idea minimum wage doesn't adversely affect employment, or somehow improves overall employment, is a revisionist view not held by most economists.

We have history. Min wage has increased many times without an increase in unemployment.

That's not true, among lower wage workers at or near minimum wage and among teenagers, unemployment does increase. And it certainly reduces the potential overall employment rate.

History doesn't show that.

 

[Steinlight]

We do? Maybe you haven't been paying attention .... Seattle, $15/hr ... San Francisco, $15/hr ... etc., etc., etc.

These cities should make an interesting test case because the increase is substantial and there aren't as many other factors involve as in a nationwide increase. If opponents of minimum wage are correct, then we should see massive reductions in low income employment are substantial increase in prices. I know the University of Washington is conducting a study that will last a number of years and may shed some light on the issue.

I don't see why we need studies to prove something that is easily explainable with a basic supply and demand graph.

But the Neumark-Wascher study, which has been used by minimum wage advocates to show that minimum wage in fact increases employment, has been revised, with Neumark and Wascher now concluding that in fact minimum wage does reduce overall employment.

estimates based on the payroll data suggest that the New Jersey minimum wage increase led to a 4.6 percent decrease in employment in New Jersey relative to the Pennsylvania control group. This decrease is statistically significant at the five-percent level and implies an elasticity of employment with respect to the minimum wage of -0.24.

The Effect of New Jersey s Minimum Wage Increase on Fast-Food Employment A Re-Evaluation Using Payroll Records

The idea minimum wage doesn't adversely affect employment, or somehow improves overall employment, is a revisionist view not held by most economists.

We have history. Min wage has increased many times without an increase in unemployment.

That's not true, among lower wage workers at or near minimum wage and among teenagers, unemployment does increase. And it certainly reduces the potential overall employment rate.

History doesn't show that.

Yes it does. It does in the Neumark-Wascher study I cited. Also just look at teenage unemployment particularly among blacks as the minimum wage has increased over time.. Also you can't measure jobs not created by wage controls.

 

[Brain357]

These cities should make an interesting test case because the increase is substantial and there aren't as many other factors involve as in a nationwide increase. If opponents of minimum wage are correct, then we should see massive reductions in low income employment are substantial increase in prices. I know the University of Washington is conducting a study that will last a number of years and may shed some light on the issue.

I don't see why we need studies to prove something that is easily explainable with a basic supply and demand graph.

But the Neumark-Wascher study, which has been used by minimum wage advocates to show that minimum wage in fact increases employment, has been revised, with Neumark and Wascher now concluding that in fact minimum wage does reduce overall employment.

estimates based on the payroll data suggest that the New Jersey minimum wage increase led to a 4.6 percent decrease in employment in New Jersey relative to the Pennsylvania control group. This decrease is statistically significant at the five-percent level and implies an elasticity of employment with respect to the minimum wage of -0.24.

The Effect of New Jersey s Minimum Wage Increase on Fast-Food Employment A Re-Evaluation Using Payroll Records

The idea minimum wage doesn't adversely affect employment, or somehow improves overall employment, is a revisionist view not held by most economists.

We have history. Min wage has increased many times without an increase in unemployment.

That's not true, among lower wage workers at or near minimum wage and among teenagers, unemployment does increase. And it certainly reduces the potential overall employment rate.

History doesn't show that.

Yes it does. It does in the Neumark-Wascher study I cited. Also just look at teenage unemployment particularly among blacks as the minimum wage has increased over time.. Also you can't measure jobs not created by wage controls.

Sure and several studies say no. A city just increased to $15 and there is no chaos. Give it up already.

 

[Steinlight]

I don't see why we need studies to prove something that is easily explainable with a basic supply and demand graph.

But the Neumark-Wascher study, which has been used by minimum wage advocates to show that minimum wage in fact increases employment, has been revised, with Neumark and Wascher now concluding that in fact minimum wage does reduce overall employment.

The Effect of New Jersey s Minimum Wage Increase on Fast-Food Employment A Re-Evaluation Using Payroll Records

The idea minimum wage doesn't adversely affect employment, or somehow improves overall employment, is a revisionist view not held by most economists.

We have history. Min wage has increased many times without an increase in unemployment.

That's not true, among lower wage workers at or near minimum wage and among teenagers, unemployment does increase. And it certainly reduces the potential overall employment rate.

History doesn't show that.

Yes it does. It does in the Neumark-Wascher study I cited. Also just look at teenage unemployment particularly among blacks as the minimum wage has increased over time.. Also you can't measure jobs not created by wage controls.

Sure and several studies say no. A city just increased to $15 and there is no chaos. Give it up already.

Name one that shows there is no effect on employment rate. Name one that contests the rise in teenage and particular teenage black unemployment and their coinciding with e rise in minimum wage. Name on study that contends the labor doesn't have a downward sloping demand curve that creates a surplus of labor that otherwise isn't employed.

In the meantime. Also provide proof that the revised Neumark-Wascher study is incorrect in its findings and why.

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

We have history. Min wage has increased many times without an increase in unemployment.

That's not true, among lower wage workers at or near minimum wage and among teenagers, unemployment does increase. And it certainly reduces the potential overall employment rate.

History doesn't show that.

Yes it does. It does in the Neumark-Wascher study I cited. Also just look at teenage unemployment particularly among blacks as the minimum wage has increased over time.. Also you can't measure jobs not created by wage controls.

Sure and several studies say no. A city just increased to $15 and there is no chaos. Give it up already.

Name one that shows there is no effect on employment rate. Name one that contests the rise in teenage and particular teenage black unemployment and their coinciding with e rise in minimum wage. Name on study that contends the labor doesn't have a downward sloping demand curve that creates a surplus of labor that otherwise isn't employed.

Don't depend on studies, look at the raw data yourself.

United States Unemployment Rate 1920 2013

Untitled Document

 

[Brain357]

We have history. Min wage has increased many times without an increase in unemployment.

That's not true, among lower wage workers at or near minimum wage and among teenagers, unemployment does increase. And it certainly reduces the potential overall employment rate.

History doesn't show that.

Yes it does. It does in the Neumark-Wascher study I cited. Also just look at teenage unemployment particularly among blacks as the minimum wage has increased over time.. Also you can't measure jobs not created by wage controls.

Sure and several studies say no. A city just increased to $15 and there is no chaos. Give it up already.

Name one that shows there is no effect on employment rate. Name one that contests the rise in teenage and particular teenage black unemployment and their coinciding with e rise in minimum wage. Name on study that contends the labor doesn't have a downward sloping demand curve that creates a surplus of labor that otherwise isn't employed.

In the meantime. Also provide proof that the revised Neumark-Wascher study is incorrect in its findings and why.

I've posted several. Here is something.

Addicting Info Does Increasing The Minimum Wage Increase Unemployment 60 Years Of Data Says No

 

[Spare_change]

How many times has minimum wage increased 60-90%? Your argument holds no validity.

We both know it won't be increasing that much.

We do? Maybe you haven't been paying attention .... Seattle, $15/hr ... San Francisco, $15/hr ... etc., etc., etc.

These cities should make an interesting test case because the increase is substantial and there aren't as many other factors involve as in a nationwide increase. If opponents of minimum wage are correct, then we should see massive reductions in low income employment are substantial increase in prices. I know the University of Washington is conducting a study that will last a number of years and may shed some light on the issue.

I don't see why we need studies to prove something that is easily explainable with a basic supply and demand graph.

But the Neumark-Wascher study, which has been used by minimum wage advocates to show that minimum wage in fact increases employment, has been revised, with Neumark and Wascher now concluding that in fact minimum wage does reduce overall employment.

estimates based on the payroll data suggest that the New Jersey minimum wage increase led to a 4.6 percent decrease in employment in New Jersey relative to the Pennsylvania control group. This decrease is statistically significant at the five-percent level and implies an elasticity of employment with respect to the minimum wage of -0.24.

The Effect of New Jersey s Minimum Wage Increase on Fast-Food Employment A Re-Evaluation Using Payroll Records

The idea minimum wage doesn't adversely affect employment, or somehow improves overall employment, is a revisionist view not held by most economists.

We have history. Min wage has increased many times without an increase in unemployment.

You do NOT have history ... never in the history of this country has there been a proposal to increase the minimum wage as significantly as is being bandied about.

 

[Steinlight]

That's not true, among lower wage workers at or near minimum wage and among teenagers, unemployment does increase. And it certainly reduces the potential overall employment rate.

History doesn't show that.

Yes it does. It does in the Neumark-Wascher study I cited. Also just look at teenage unemployment particularly among blacks as the minimum wage has increased over time.. Also you can't measure jobs not created by wage controls.

Sure and several studies say no. A city just increased to $15 and there is no chaos. Give it up already.

Name one that shows there is no effect on employment rate. Name one that contests the rise in teenage and particular teenage black unemployment and their coinciding with e rise in minimum wage. Name on study that contends the labor doesn't have a downward sloping demand curve that creates a surplus of labor that otherwise isn't employed.

In the meantime. Also provide proof that the revised Neumark-Wascher study is incorrect in its findings and why.

I've posted several. Here is something.

Addicting Info Does Increasing The Minimum Wage Increase Unemployment 60 Years Of Data Says No

That so called study which is really a big post addresses none of my concerns, nor does it debunk the Neumark-Wascher study. First off discussing the effects of minimum wage without comparing state by state where wages differ is meaningless. Secondly citing the unemployment stats where 98% of Individuals don't receive minimum wage also aren't valuable. You need to measure unemployment rates by effected groups. Primarily those 25 and younger. Particularly of minority groups. Your blog post also doesnt address lower rates of employment as opposed to the unemployment rate. These are two different things. My Neumark-Wascher study addresses this,your blog post doesnt. So I am still waiting. Rather than providing a shit tier blog post from a far left site, provide evidence as to why my studies and data are wrong

 

[Brain357]

We both know it won't be increasing that much.

We do? Maybe you haven't been paying attention .... Seattle, $15/hr ... San Francisco, $15/hr ... etc., etc., etc.

These cities should make an interesting test case because the increase is substantial and there aren't as many other factors involve as in a nationwide increase. If opponents of minimum wage are correct, then we should see massive reductions in low income employment are substantial increase in prices. I know the University of Washington is conducting a study that will last a number of years and may shed some light on the issue.

I don't see why we need studies to prove something that is easily explainable with a basic supply and demand graph.

But the Neumark-Wascher study, which has been used by minimum wage advocates to show that minimum wage in fact increases employment, has been revised, with Neumark and Wascher now concluding that in fact minimum wage does reduce overall employment.

estimates based on the payroll data suggest that the New Jersey minimum wage increase led to a 4.6 percent decrease in employment in New Jersey relative to the Pennsylvania control group. This decrease is statistically significant at the five-percent level and implies an elasticity of employment with respect to the minimum wage of -0.24.

The Effect of New Jersey s Minimum Wage Increase on Fast-Food Employment A Re-Evaluation Using Payroll Records

The idea minimum wage doesn't adversely affect employment, or somehow improves overall employment, is a revisionist view not held by most economists.

We have history. Min wage has increased many times without an increase in unemployment.

You do NOT have history ... never in the history of this country has there been a proposal to increase the minimum wage as significantly as is being bandied about.

Being done in a city now and there is no chaos.

 

[Brain357]

History doesn't show that.

Yes it does. It does in the Neumark-Wascher study I cited. Also just look at teenage unemployment particularly among blacks as the minimum wage has increased over time.. Also you can't measure jobs not created by wage controls.

Sure and several studies say no. A city just increased to $15 and there is no chaos. Give it up already.

Name one that shows there is no effect on employment rate. Name one that contests the rise in teenage and particular teenage black unemployment and their coinciding with e rise in minimum wage. Name on study that contends the labor doesn't have a downward sloping demand curve that creates a surplus of labor that otherwise isn't employed.

In the meantime. Also provide proof that the revised Neumark-Wascher study is incorrect in its findings and why.

I've posted several. Here is something.

Addicting Info Does Increasing The Minimum Wage Increase Unemployment 60 Years Of Data Says No

That so called study which is really a big post addresses none of my concerns, nor does it debunk the Neumark-Wascher study. First off discussing the effects of minimum wage without comparing state by state where wages differ is meaningless. Secondly citing the unemployment stats where 98% of Individuals don't receive minimum wage also aren't valuable. You need to measure unemployment rates by effected groups. Primarily those 25 and younger. Particularly of minority groups. Your blog post also doesnt address lower rates of employment rate as opposed to tge unemployment rate. These are two different things. My Neumark-Wascher study addresses this your blog post doesnt. So I am still waiting. Rather than providing a shit tier blog post from a far left site, provide evidence as to why my studies and data are wrong

Min wage has increased many times without increased unemployment.

 

[Steinlight]

Yes it does. It does in the Neumark-Wascher study I cited. Also just look at teenage unemployment particularly among blacks as the minimum wage has increased over time.. Also you can't measure jobs not created by wage controls.

Sure and several studies say no. A city just increased to $15 and there is no chaos. Give it up already.

Name one that shows there is no effect on employment rate. Name one that contests the rise in teenage and particular teenage black unemployment and their coinciding with e rise in minimum wage. Name on study that contends the labor doesn't have a downward sloping demand curve that creates a surplus of labor that otherwise isn't employed.

In the meantime. Also provide proof that the revised Neumark-Wascher study is incorrect in its findings and why.

I've posted several. Here is something.

Addicting Info Does Increasing The Minimum Wage Increase Unemployment 60 Years Of Data Says No

That so called study which is really a big post addresses none of my concerns, nor does it debunk the Neumark-Wascher study. First off discussing the effects of minimum wage without comparing state by state where wages differ is meaningless. Secondly citing the unemployment stats where 98% of Individuals don't receive minimum wage also aren't valuable. You need to measure unemployment rates by effected groups. Primarily those 25 and younger. Particularly of minority groups. Your blog post also doesnt address lower rates of employment rate as opposed to tge unemployment rate. These are two different things. My Neumark-Wascher study addresses this your blog post doesnt. So I am still waiting. Rather than providing a shit tier blog post from a far left site, provide evidence as to why my studies and data are wrong

Min wage has increased many times without increased unemployment.

No increased unemployment among those making minimum wage? Or lower employment rate? Doubt it. Show me the evidence.

 

[Spare_change]

Yes it does. It does in the Neumark-Wascher study I cited. Also just look at teenage unemployment particularly among blacks as the minimum wage has increased over time.. Also you can't measure jobs not created by wage controls.

Sure and several studies say no. A city just increased to $15 and there is no chaos. Give it up already.

Name one that shows there is no effect on employment rate. Name one that contests the rise in teenage and particular teenage black unemployment and their coinciding with e rise in minimum wage. Name on study that contends the labor doesn't have a downward sloping demand curve that creates a surplus of labor that otherwise isn't employed.

In the meantime. Also provide proof that the revised Neumark-Wascher study is incorrect in its findings and why.

I've posted several. Here is something.

Addicting Info Does Increasing The Minimum Wage Increase Unemployment 60 Years Of Data Says No

That so called study which is really a big post addresses none of my concerns, nor does it debunk the Neumark-Wascher study. First off discussing the effects of minimum wage without comparing state by state where wages differ is meaningless. Secondly citing the unemployment stats where 98% of Individuals don't receive minimum wage also aren't valuable. You need to measure unemployment rates by effected groups. Primarily those 25 and younger. Particularly of minority groups. Your blog post also doesnt address lower rates of employment rate as opposed to tge unemployment rate. These are two different things. My Neumark-Wascher study addresses this your blog post doesnt. So I am still waiting. Rather than providing a shit tier blog post from a far left site, provide evidence as to why my studies and data are wrong

Min wage has increased many times without increased unemployment.

You are aware, of course, (HUGE assumption!!) that the increase in Seattle's minimum wage is now officially 40 days old, and that no unemployment data has been gathered as yet. For you to trumpet the lack of impact is intellectually dishonest.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

We both know it won't be increasing that much.

We do? Maybe you haven't been paying attention .... Seattle, $15/hr ... San Francisco, $15/hr ... etc., etc., etc.

These cities should make an interesting test case because the increase is substantial and there aren't as many other factors involve as in a nationwide increase. If opponents of minimum wage are correct, then we should see massive reductions in low income employment are substantial increase in prices. I know the University of Washington is conducting a study that will last a number of years and may shed some light on the issue.

I don't see why we need studies to prove something that is easily explainable with a basic supply and demand graph.

But the Neumark-Wascher study, which has been used by minimum wage advocates to show that minimum wage in fact increases employment, has been revised, with Neumark and Wascher now concluding that in fact minimum wage does reduce overall employment.

estimates based on the payroll data suggest that the New Jersey minimum wage increase led to a 4.6 percent decrease in employment in New Jersey relative to the Pennsylvania control group. This decrease is statistically significant at the five-percent level and implies an elasticity of employment with respect to the minimum wage of -0.24.

The Effect of New Jersey s Minimum Wage Increase on Fast-Food Employment A Re-Evaluation Using Payroll Records

The idea minimum wage doesn't adversely affect employment, or somehow improves overall employment, is a revisionist view not held by most economists.

We have history. Min wage has increased many times without an increase in unemployment.

You do NOT have history ... never in the history of this country has there been a proposal to increase the minimum wage as significantly as is being bandied about.

Next he'll tell you he didnt mean that. Even though he's said it a million times.

 

[Flopper]

Sure and several studies say no. A city just increased to $15 and there is no chaos. Give it up already.

Name one that shows there is no effect on employment rate. Name one that contests the rise in teenage and particular teenage black unemployment and their coinciding with e rise in minimum wage. Name on study that contends the labor doesn't have a downward sloping demand curve that creates a surplus of labor that otherwise isn't employed.

In the meantime. Also provide proof that the revised Neumark-Wascher study is incorrect in its findings and why.

I've posted several. Here is something.

Addicting Info Does Increasing The Minimum Wage Increase Unemployment 60 Years Of Data Says No

That so called study which is really a big post addresses none of my concerns, nor does it debunk the Neumark-Wascher study. First off discussing the effects of minimum wage without comparing state by state where wages differ is meaningless. Secondly citing the unemployment stats where 98% of Individuals don't receive minimum wage also aren't valuable. You need to measure unemployment rates by effected groups. Primarily those 25 and younger. Particularly of minority groups. Your blog post also doesnt address lower rates of employment rate as opposed to tge unemployment rate. These are two different things. My Neumark-Wascher study addresses this your blog post doesnt. So I am still waiting. Rather than providing a shit tier blog post from a far left site, provide evidence as to why my studies and data are wrong

Min wage has increased many times without increased unemployment.

You are aware, of course, (HUGE assumption!!) that the increase in Seattle's minimum wage is now officially 40 days old, and that no unemployment data has been gathered as yet. For you to trumpet the lack of impact is intellectually dishonest.

Actually, minimum wage went from 9.47 to 11.00/hr. and for some employees, it's only 10.00. Then depending on whether the employer offers medical benefits and the number of employees, the wages rise in steps and reaches $15.00 in 2018, 2019, or 2021. It will be at least 5 years before we have good picture of the results.

15 Minimum Wage

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

Name one that shows there is no effect on employment rate. Name one that contests the rise in teenage and particular teenage black unemployment and their coinciding with e rise in minimum wage. Name on study that contends the labor doesn't have a downward sloping demand curve that creates a surplus of labor that otherwise isn't employed.

In the meantime. Also provide proof that the revised Neumark-Wascher study is incorrect in its findings and why.

I've posted several. Here is something.

Addicting Info Does Increasing The Minimum Wage Increase Unemployment 60 Years Of Data Says No

That so called study which is really a big post addresses none of my concerns, nor does it debunk the Neumark-Wascher study. First off discussing the effects of minimum wage without comparing state by state where wages differ is meaningless. Secondly citing the unemployment stats where 98% of Individuals don't receive minimum wage also aren't valuable. You need to measure unemployment rates by effected groups. Primarily those 25 and younger. Particularly of minority groups. Your blog post also doesnt address lower rates of employment rate as opposed to tge unemployment rate. These are two different things. My Neumark-Wascher study addresses this your blog post doesnt. So I am still waiting. Rather than providing a shit tier blog post from a far left site, provide evidence as to why my studies and data are wrong

Min wage has increased many times without increased unemployment.

You are aware, of course, (HUGE assumption!!) that the increase in Seattle's minimum wage is now officially 40 days old, and that no unemployment data has been gathered as yet. For you to trumpet the lack of impact is intellectually dishonest.

Actually, minimum wage went from 9.47 to 11.00/hr. and for some employees, it's only 10.00. Then depending on whether the employer offers medical benefits and the number of employees, the wages rise in steps and reaches $15.00 in 2018, 2019, or 2021. It will be at least 5 years before we have good picture of the results.

15 Minimum Wage

Correct, no one was saying let's go to $15/hr tomorrow, at least no one sane.

These people who keep arguing that no raise is necessary are stupid though.

 

[Ernie S.]

Actually, we have machines that can grind meat, shape burger patties, and cook burgers - do you seriously believe burger assembly is an engineering challenge we can't solve?

How many restaurants serve nothing but hamburgers?

Why do we still have cooks?

Fast found restaurants don't just serve hamburgers. A McDonald kitchen prepares fried and broiled chicken sandwiches, fish sandwiches, chicken nuggets, snack wraps, a multitude of special burgers, a variety of egg muffin sandwiches, pancakes, eggs, sausages, biscuits, and constantly changing specials.

Unless your restaurant served just burgers, a burger machine with have a minimal impact on employment because the kitchen staff is still needed to prepare other food.

There is also another problem with automation. It's not flexible. The machine can only perform the tasks that it has been built to perform. So management's menu is limited by the machine; not a good idea since fast food restaurants have built their menu by trying out new menu offerings.
.

Nonsense --- there's not a nickel's difference between cooking chicken or hamburgers. One of the prime concerns when making 'menu changes' is to 1) not use anything new - just find different ways to present the same raw materials, 2) use the same delivery methods in order to avoid increased training costs, and 3) increase profitability for the same materials.

Actually, automation is extremely flexible --- it's just a matter of building it to be flexible.

A burger machine couldn't cook chicken. Some person would have to change the setting at the very least.

Someone orders chicken, the computer tells the machine to cook chicken. If it's a self serve kiosk, there need be no human intervention, except maybe to load more burger patties and chicken chunks into the machine. A bit more investment and robots could move product from freezer to machine on demand. Technology is available to run a Mickey D's with just one employee present to babysit the machines.
But, Liberals will claim that now one man can do what it used to take 10 and call that a 10 fold increase in productivity when in fact, there is no increase in productivity attributable to employees. All productivity gain is a result of technology and equipment bought and paid for by management.

I agree with most of your post but I'll play the devils advocate. When 90% of Mickey D's employees and all the other fast food chains, along with retail stores, and what remains of American manufacturing are replaced by robots, what are these people made redundant by automation going to do?

Automation of course does create jobs, but those jobs require not just more training, but more intelligence, and more dedication than that of most low income workers. Trying to turn hamburger flippers into computer network technicians, design engineers, and accountants is not going to be very successful. I'm afraid that in this brave new world about 40% will end up supporting 60% of the population, not a very good outcome.

Building and implementing new technology may turn out to be simple compared to dealing with resulting social problems.

There will be ditch digging, truck driving, bar tending.... What motivated people will do is what each generation does. They will get more education than their parents. Those that don't avail themselves of the education our taxes provide for them will either become sponges and parasites or maybe find their own marketable skill. There are people making money at all kinds of things a sane person would never consider.
Hell! Go back to 1965. One large company I worked for had punch tape computers with vacuume tubes. No one in their right mind would think that 10 years later average folks wpould be buying personal computers with that capability squared. Of course, developing PC's took above average intelligence and some capital investment, but at the same time, people were making millions selling pet rocks.

Being a parasite is much easier though. It doesn't require education, hard work or an imagination. For that part of the problem, the solution is a hard one to face. How do you motivate people that are more comfortable living off the largess of society than in a 9 to 5 job that nets them the same amount or just slightly more money.
Giving them more free shit is NOT the answer. Giving them less free shit is the only thing government can do.
Government can educate the masses, but can't make anyone want to learn. Government can incarcerate those that violate the law, but can't raise children that won't steal.
No one wants to see kids go hungry because their parents didn't get an education, but leaving them not quite full when they leave the table might just motivate them to do better than their parents.