More lefties learn the glory of the 15 dollar minimum wage....unemployment.....

[Spare_change]

And unemployment going down.

You asked the question wrong .... how many work hours have been created?

We all know that the government has changed the way they calculate the unemployment rate, in order to hide the truth. So, how many of these supposed jobs are full time jobs? What is the average wage per hour of these newly created jobs?

You can't accept the numbers prima facie ... you need to look at the reality that created the numbers.

Sorry but your claims have been proven false. Despite increased machine use unemployment is going down.

You need to revisit this "unemployment is going down' mantra ... it is, simply, false. You are accepting manipulated data put forth by those who are best served by the manipulation.

If employment is going down, why is our labor force participation rate the lowest in 75 years? What is the average $/hour for our workers? What is the average hours/worker trending negative? Counting a part-time job as if it is a full time job is, simply, misleading the public.

All Brain does is rehash the same crap over and over.

History doesn't change and the facts are the facts.

Yep --- it is your abuse of them that concerns me.

 

[Brain357]

You asked the question wrong .... how many work hours have been created?

We all know that the government has changed the way they calculate the unemployment rate, in order to hide the truth. So, how many of these supposed jobs are full time jobs? What is the average wage per hour of these newly created jobs?

You can't accept the numbers prima facie ... you need to look at the reality that created the numbers.

Sorry but your claims have been proven false. Despite increased machine use unemployment is going down.

You need to revisit this "unemployment is going down' mantra ... it is, simply, false. You are accepting manipulated data put forth by those who are best served by the manipulation.

If employment is going down, why is our labor force participation rate the lowest in 75 years? What is the average $/hour for our workers? What is the average hours/worker trending negative? Counting a part-time job as if it is a full time job is, simply, misleading the public.

All Brain does is rehash the same crap over and over.

History doesn't change and the facts are the facts.

Yep --- it is your abuse of them that concerns me.

Really? So the fact that the sky hasn't ever fallen with a min wage increase is a concern? That's just silly. All you can keep saying is well it has never happened yet but some day it will. Give it up already. If min wage goes up it won't go up by very much and the sky will not fall.

 

[Spare_change]

Sorry but your claims have been proven false. Despite increased machine use unemployment is going down.

You need to revisit this "unemployment is going down' mantra ... it is, simply, false. You are accepting manipulated data put forth by those who are best served by the manipulation.

If employment is going down, why is our labor force participation rate the lowest in 75 years? What is the average $/hour for our workers? What is the average hours/worker trending negative? Counting a part-time job as if it is a full time job is, simply, misleading the public.

All Brain does is rehash the same crap over and over.

History doesn't change and the facts are the facts.

Yep --- it is your abuse of them that concerns me.

Really? So the fact that the sky hasn't ever fallen with a min wage increase is a concern? That's just silly. All you can keep saying is well it has never happened yet but some day it will. Give it up already. If min wage goes up it won't go up by very much and the sky will not fall.

None are so blind as those who will not see.

You're married to a philosophical position, and all the facts in the world will not dissuade you. So much for critical thinking.

 

[Brain357]

You need to revisit this "unemployment is going down' mantra ... it is, simply, false. You are accepting manipulated data put forth by those who are best served by the manipulation.

If employment is going down, why is our labor force participation rate the lowest in 75 years? What is the average $/hour for our workers? What is the average hours/worker trending negative? Counting a part-time job as if it is a full time job is, simply, misleading the public.

All Brain does is rehash the same crap over and over.

History doesn't change and the facts are the facts.

Yep --- it is your abuse of them that concerns me.

Really? So the fact that the sky hasn't ever fallen with a min wage increase is a concern? That's just silly. All you can keep saying is well it has never happened yet but some day it will. Give it up already. If min wage goes up it won't go up by very much and the sky will not fall.

None are so blind as those who will not see.

You're married to a philosophical position, and all the facts in the world will not dissuade you. So much for critical thinking.

You are trying to scare everyone into believing the world is going to end even though history shows it will not.

 

[Spare_change]

All Brain does is rehash the same crap over and over.

History doesn't change and the facts are the facts.

Yep --- it is your abuse of them that concerns me.

Really? So the fact that the sky hasn't ever fallen with a min wage increase is a concern? That's just silly. All you can keep saying is well it has never happened yet but some day it will. Give it up already. If min wage goes up it won't go up by very much and the sky will not fall.

None are so blind as those who will not see.

You're married to a philosophical position, and all the facts in the world will not dissuade you. So much for critical thinking.

You are trying to scare everyone into believing the world is going to end even though history shows it will not.

I said nothing of the sort .... it's your prejudice.

I simply said that when the cost of human labor exceeds the cost of automated labor .... the workers are outta there.

I also said - and you have no way to disprove it - that it is possible that the tipping point will be crossed with the increase in the minimum wage as proposed by posters here. However, I will definitively say that a 12% increase in labor costs just might be that tipping point.

Now - don't put words in my mouth.

 

[Brain357]

History doesn't change and the facts are the facts.

Yep --- it is your abuse of them that concerns me.

Really? So the fact that the sky hasn't ever fallen with a min wage increase is a concern? That's just silly. All you can keep saying is well it has never happened yet but some day it will. Give it up already. If min wage goes up it won't go up by very much and the sky will not fall.

None are so blind as those who will not see.

You're married to a philosophical position, and all the facts in the world will not dissuade you. So much for critical thinking.

You are trying to scare everyone into believing the world is going to end even though history shows it will not.

I said nothing of the sort .... it's your prejudice.

I simply said that when the cost of human labor exceeds the cost of automated labor .... the workers are outta there.

I also said - and you have no way to disprove it - that it is possible that the tipping point will be crossed with the increase in the minimum wage as proposed by posters here. However, I will definitively say that a 12% increase in labor costs just might be that tipping point.

Now - don't put words in my mouth.

You keep worrying about that tipping point if you want. Fact is we have had many increases and that tipping point has not been reached. And I've not seen enough evidence to believe fast food workers can even be replaced with machine just now. There is one burger machine not used by anyone. If it was great it would be in use, so the technology isn't even here.

 

[Steinlight]

All Brain does is rehash the same crap over and over.

History doesn't change and the facts are the facts.

Yep --- it is your abuse of them that concerns me.

Really? So the fact that the sky hasn't ever fallen with a min wage increase is a concern? That's just silly. All you can keep saying is well it has never happened yet but some day it will. Give it up already. If min wage goes up it won't go up by very much and the sky will not fall.

None are so blind as those who will not see.

You're married to a philosophical position, and all the facts in the world will not dissuade you. So much for critical thinking.

You are trying to scare everyone into believing the world is going to end even though history shows it will not.

The world won't end with a minimum wage increase, but employment will be reduced.

Last I checked, the demand for labor is downward sloping, so if the government sets a price floor above the market wage, there will be a surplus of unemployed labor that wouldn't exist in a free market for labor.

People oppose price controls in other things, but on this issue people get wrapped up in emotion rather than using common sense.

 

[Flopper]

Myth: Increasing the minimum wage will cause people to lose their jobs.

Not true: A review of 64 studies on minimum wage increases found no discernable effect on employment. Additionally, more than 600 economists, seven of them Nobel Prize winners in economics, have signed onto a letter in support of raising the minimum wage to $10.10 by 2016.

Minimum Wage Mythbusters - U.S. Department of Labor

I guess they don't view hundreds of thousands losing there job as a discernable effect. I disagree.

Min wage has increased many times. It has not ever led to increased unemployment.

How many times has minimum wage increased 60-90%? Your argument holds no validity.

We both know it won't be increasing that much.

We do? Maybe you haven't been paying attention .... Seattle, $15/hr ... San Francisco, $15/hr ... etc., etc., etc.

These cities should make an interesting test case because the increase is substantial and there aren't as many other factors involve as in a nationwide increase. If opponents of minimum wage are correct, then we should see massive reductions in low income employment are substantial increase in prices. I know the University of Washington is conducting a study that will last a number of years and may shed some light on the issue.

 

[Steinlight]

I guess they don't view hundreds of thousands losing there job as a discernable effect. I disagree.

Min wage has increased many times. It has not ever led to increased unemployment.

How many times has minimum wage increased 60-90%? Your argument holds no validity.

We both know it won't be increasing that much.

We do? Maybe you haven't been paying attention .... Seattle, $15/hr ... San Francisco, $15/hr ... etc., etc., etc.

These cities should make an interesting test case because the increase is substantial and there aren't as many other factors involve as in a nationwide increase. If opponents of minimum wage are correct, then we should see massive reductions in low income employment are substantial increase in prices. I know the University of Washington is conducting a study that will last a number of years and may shed some light on the issue.

I don't see why we need studies to prove something that is easily explainable with a basic supply and demand graph.

But the Neumark-Wascher study, which has been used by minimum wage advocates to show that minimum wage in fact increases employment, has been revised, with Neumark and Wascher now concluding that in fact minimum wage does reduce overall employment.

estimates based on the payroll data suggest that the New Jersey minimum wage increase led to a 4.6 percent decrease in employment in New Jersey relative to the Pennsylvania control group. This decrease is statistically significant at the five-percent level and implies an elasticity of employment with respect to the minimum wage of -0.24.

The Effect of New Jersey s Minimum Wage Increase on Fast-Food Employment A Re-Evaluation Using Payroll Records

The idea minimum wage doesn't adversely affect employment, or somehow improves overall employment, is a revisionist view not held by most economists.

 

[Ernie S.]

There are no machines that can grind meat, shape burger patties, cook and assemble burgers, so your argument is moot..

Actually, we have machines that can grind meat, shape burger patties, and cook burgers - do you seriously believe burger assembly is an engineering challenge we can't solve?

How many restaurants serve nothing but hamburgers?

There are no machines that can grind meat, shape burger patties, cook and assemble burgers, so your argument is moot..

Actually, we have machines that can grind meat, shape burger patties, and cook burgers - do you seriously believe burger assembly is an engineering challenge we can't solve?

Why do we still have cooks?

Fast found restaurants don't just serve hamburgers. A McDonald kitchen prepares fried and broiled chicken sandwiches, fish sandwiches, chicken nuggets, snack wraps, a multitude of special burgers, a variety of egg muffin sandwiches, pancakes, eggs, sausages, biscuits, and constantly changing specials.

Unless your restaurant served just burgers, a burger machine with have a minimal impact on employment because the kitchen staff is still needed to prepare other food.

There is also another problem with automation. It's not flexible. The machine can only perform the tasks that it has been built to perform. So management's menu is limited by the machine; not a good idea since fast food restaurants have built their menu by trying out new menu offerings.
.

Nonsense --- there's not a nickel's difference between cooking chicken or hamburgers. One of the prime concerns when making 'menu changes' is to 1) not use anything new - just find different ways to present the same raw materials, 2) use the same delivery methods in order to avoid increased training costs, and 3) increase profitability for the same materials.

Actually, automation is extremely flexible --- it's just a matter of building it to be flexible.

A burger machine couldn't cook chicken. Some person would have to change the setting at the very least.

Someone orders chicken, the computer tells the machine to cook chicken. If it's a self serve kiosk, there need be no human intervention, except maybe to load more burger patties and chicken chunks into the machine. A bit more investment and robots could move product from freezer to machine on demand. Technology is available to run a Mickey D's with just one employee present to babysit the machines.
But, Liberals will claim that now one man can do what it used to take 10 and call that a 10 fold increase in productivity when in fact, there is no increase in productivity attributable to employees. All productivity gain is a result of technology and equipment bought and paid for by management.

 

[Brain357]

Min wage has increased many times. It has not ever led to increased unemployment.

How many times has minimum wage increased 60-90%? Your argument holds no validity.

We both know it won't be increasing that much.

We do? Maybe you haven't been paying attention .... Seattle, $15/hr ... San Francisco, $15/hr ... etc., etc., etc.

These cities should make an interesting test case because the increase is substantial and there aren't as many other factors involve as in a nationwide increase. If opponents of minimum wage are correct, then we should see massive reductions in low income employment are substantial increase in prices. I know the University of Washington is conducting a study that will last a number of years and may shed some light on the issue.

I don't see why we need studies to prove something that is easily explainable with a basic supply and demand graph.

But the Neumark-Wascher study, which has been used by minimum wage advocates to show that minimum wage in fact increases employment, has been revised, with Neumark and Wascher now concluding that in fact minimum wage does reduce overall employment.

estimates based on the payroll data suggest that the New Jersey minimum wage increase led to a 4.6 percent decrease in employment in New Jersey relative to the Pennsylvania control group. This decrease is statistically significant at the five-percent level and implies an elasticity of employment with respect to the minimum wage of -0.24.

The Effect of New Jersey s Minimum Wage Increase on Fast-Food Employment A Re-Evaluation Using Payroll Records

The idea minimum wage doesn't adversely affect employment, or somehow improves overall employment, is a revisionist view not held by most economists.

We have history. Min wage has increased many times without an increase in unemployment.

 

[Brain357]

“I am shaking here tonight because I am going to be forced to lay people off,” he said, according to an account in the Washington State Wire. “I’m going to take away their livelihood. That hurts. It really, really hurts. . . . And what I am going to have to do on Jan. 1 is to eliminate jobs, reduce hours — and as soon as hours are reduced, benefits are reduced.”

SeaTac, a community around Seattle-Tacoma International Airport, went ahead with its plan, becoming, on Jan. 1, the first jurisdiction in the nation to set a $15 minimum wage, according to the labor movement. And Ostrander’s hotel, the Cedarbrook Lodge? It went ahead with a $16 million expansion that adds 63 rooms, a spa — and jobs.

In Seattle last week, I stopped in at the jammed Palace Kitchen, flagship of Seattle restaurateur Tom Douglas, who runs upward of 15 establishments. He warned in April that the $15 wage could “be the most serious threat to our ability to compete,” and he predicted that “we would lose maybe a quarter of the restaurants in town.” Yet Douglas has opened, or announced, five new restaurants this year

Likewise, the International Franchise Association has sued to block implementation of the law, arguing that nobody “in their right mind” would become a franchisee in Seattle. Yet Togo’s sandwiches, a franchise chain, is expanding into Seattle, saying the $15 wage isn’t a deterrent.

And a spokesman for Weyerhaeuser, the venerable wood and paper company, says the $15 wage didn’t factor into its decision, announced last month, to move its headquarters and 800 employees to Seattle from outside Tacoma.

Before the wage took effect, SeaTac parking-lot operator MasterPark said it might respond by replacing some workers with automation. Instead, MasterPark implemented a 99-cent-per-day “Living Wage Surcharge.” The company’s managing partner told the Seattle Times that layoffs in favor of automation would be “foolish” and that his employees are “happy campers.”



Raising the minimum wage without raising havoc - The Washington Post

 

[Flopper]

There are no machines that can grind meat, shape burger patties, cook and assemble burgers, so your argument is moot..

Actually, we have machines that can grind meat, shape burger patties, and cook burgers - do you seriously believe burger assembly is an engineering challenge we can't solve?

How many restaurants serve nothing but hamburgers?

Actually, we have machines that can grind meat, shape burger patties, and cook burgers - do you seriously believe burger assembly is an engineering challenge we can't solve?

Why do we still have cooks?

Fast found restaurants don't just serve hamburgers. A McDonald kitchen prepares fried and broiled chicken sandwiches, fish sandwiches, chicken nuggets, snack wraps, a multitude of special burgers, a variety of egg muffin sandwiches, pancakes, eggs, sausages, biscuits, and constantly changing specials.

Unless your restaurant served just burgers, a burger machine with have a minimal impact on employment because the kitchen staff is still needed to prepare other food.

There is also another problem with automation. It's not flexible. The machine can only perform the tasks that it has been built to perform. So management's menu is limited by the machine; not a good idea since fast food restaurants have built their menu by trying out new menu offerings.
.

Nonsense --- there's not a nickel's difference between cooking chicken or hamburgers. One of the prime concerns when making 'menu changes' is to 1) not use anything new - just find different ways to present the same raw materials, 2) use the same delivery methods in order to avoid increased training costs, and 3) increase profitability for the same materials.

Actually, automation is extremely flexible --- it's just a matter of building it to be flexible.

A burger machine couldn't cook chicken. Some person would have to change the setting at the very least.

Someone orders chicken, the computer tells the machine to cook chicken. If it's a self serve kiosk, there need be no human intervention, except maybe to load more burger patties and chicken chunks into the machine. A bit more investment and robots could move product from freezer to machine on demand. Technology is available to run a Mickey D's with just one employee present to babysit the machines.
But, Liberals will claim that now one man can do what it used to take 10 and call that a 10 fold increase in productivity when in fact, there is no increase in productivity attributable to employees. All productivity gain is a result of technology and equipment bought and paid for by management.

I agree with most of your post but I'll play the devils advocate. When 90% of Mickey D's employees and all the other fast food chains, along with retail stores, and what remains of American manufacturing are replaced by robots, what are these people made redundant by automation going to do?

Automation of course does create jobs, but those jobs require not just more training, but more intelligence, and more dedication than that of most low income workers. Trying to turn hamburger flippers into computer network technicians, design engineers, and accountants is not going to be very successful. I'm afraid that in this brave new world about 40% will end up supporting 60% of the population, not a very good outcome.

Building and implementing new technology may turn out to be simple compared to dealing with resulting social problems.

 

[hadit]

Actually, we have machines that can grind meat, shape burger patties, and cook burgers - do you seriously believe burger assembly is an engineering challenge we can't solve?

How many restaurants serve nothing but hamburgers?

Why do we still have cooks?

Fast found restaurants don't just serve hamburgers. A McDonald kitchen prepares fried and broiled chicken sandwiches, fish sandwiches, chicken nuggets, snack wraps, a multitude of special burgers, a variety of egg muffin sandwiches, pancakes, eggs, sausages, biscuits, and constantly changing specials.

Unless your restaurant served just burgers, a burger machine with have a minimal impact on employment because the kitchen staff is still needed to prepare other food.

There is also another problem with automation. It's not flexible. The machine can only perform the tasks that it has been built to perform. So management's menu is limited by the machine; not a good idea since fast food restaurants have built their menu by trying out new menu offerings.
.

When people cost more than machines, and machines can do a better job than people, machines will do the job. It used to be that a man could make a career bolting or welding car parts together on an assembly line. Not any more. It used to be that a woman could make a career out of making clothes by hand. Not any more. It used to be that a computer programmer could make a career out of writing file I/O and screen painting routines. Not any more.

I agree that when wage cost are more than machines and those machines can do a better job, those machines will replace the workers. However, there is more to it than that. What if wage costs are much lower than the cost of machines that can do the job better and produce a better product. Will the business pay more for the machines that delivery better products? Maybe or maybe not. In China and third world countries, cheap labor is producing tons of junk that last only long enough to sell because it's more profitable than using expensive machines.

If the cost of labor is exceedingly high, say $25/hr. The business must buy the burger machine to stay in business and the public will have to put up with the crappy burgers because they just can't or won't pay $20 for a good burger.

My point is neither a very high or very low minimum wage is desirable.

Actually, the machine can make burgers as good, if not better, than a human can. It can start with fresh ground custom blends of meat, shape them perfectly every time, and cook them precisely every time.

Can it also collect trays, take out the trash, mop the floor, clean restrooms, police the parking lot, etc etc? That machine would work great for a walk up type restaurant with no dining in option, otherwise you still need employees.

Note that I never said it would replace all employees. In fact, I noted that there would be a few left to call tech support when something went wrong. They would also police the area. Why the need to carry it to the extreme? Perhaps you haven't read everything I wrote on the subject and are operating from ignorance?

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

How many restaurants serve nothing but hamburgers?
Fast found restaurants don't just serve hamburgers. A McDonald kitchen prepares fried and broiled chicken sandwiches, fish sandwiches, chicken nuggets, snack wraps, a multitude of special burgers, a variety of egg muffin sandwiches, pancakes, eggs, sausages, biscuits, and constantly changing specials.

Unless your restaurant served just burgers, a burger machine with have a minimal impact on employment because the kitchen staff is still needed to prepare other food.

There is also another problem with automation. It's not flexible. The machine can only perform the tasks that it has been built to perform. So management's menu is limited by the machine; not a good idea since fast food restaurants have built their menu by trying out new menu offerings.
.

When people cost more than machines, and machines can do a better job than people, machines will do the job. It used to be that a man could make a career bolting or welding car parts together on an assembly line. Not any more. It used to be that a woman could make a career out of making clothes by hand. Not any more. It used to be that a computer programmer could make a career out of writing file I/O and screen painting routines. Not any more.

I agree that when wage cost are more than machines and those machines can do a better job, those machines will replace the workers. However, there is more to it than that. What if wage costs are much lower than the cost of machines that can do the job better and produce a better product. Will the business pay more for the machines that delivery better products? Maybe or maybe not. In China and third world countries, cheap labor is producing tons of junk that last only long enough to sell because it's more profitable than using expensive machines.

If the cost of labor is exceedingly high, say $25/hr. The business must buy the burger machine to stay in business and the public will have to put up with the crappy burgers because they just can't or won't pay $20 for a good burger.

My point is neither a very high or very low minimum wage is desirable.

Actually, the machine can make burgers as good, if not better, than a human can. It can start with fresh ground custom blends of meat, shape them perfectly every time, and cook them precisely every time.

Can it also collect trays, take out the trash, mop the floor, clean restrooms, police the parking lot, etc etc? That machine would work great for a walk up type restaurant with no dining in option, otherwise you still need employees.

Note that I never said it would replace all employees. In fact, I noted that there would be a few left to call tech support when something went wrong. They would also police the area. Why the need to carry it to the extreme? Perhaps you haven't read everything I wrote on the subject and are operating from ignorance?

You're the one taking things to a bizarre extreme. We will ALWAYS need a minimum wage law, agree or disagree?

 

[hadit]

Actually, we have machines that can grind meat, shape burger patties, and cook burgers - do you seriously believe burger assembly is an engineering challenge we can't solve?

How many restaurants serve nothing but hamburgers?

Why do we still have cooks?

Fast found restaurants don't just serve hamburgers. A McDonald kitchen prepares fried and broiled chicken sandwiches, fish sandwiches, chicken nuggets, snack wraps, a multitude of special burgers, a variety of egg muffin sandwiches, pancakes, eggs, sausages, biscuits, and constantly changing specials.

Unless your restaurant served just burgers, a burger machine with have a minimal impact on employment because the kitchen staff is still needed to prepare other food.

There is also another problem with automation. It's not flexible. The machine can only perform the tasks that it has been built to perform. So management's menu is limited by the machine; not a good idea since fast food restaurants have built their menu by trying out new menu offerings.
.

When people cost more than machines, and machines can do a better job than people, machines will do the job. It used to be that a man could make a career bolting or welding car parts together on an assembly line. Not any more. It used to be that a woman could make a career out of making clothes by hand. Not any more. It used to be that a computer programmer could make a career out of writing file I/O and screen painting routines. Not any more.

I agree that when wage cost are more than machines and those machines can do a better job, those machines will replace the workers. However, there is more to it than that. What if wage costs are much lower than the cost of machines that can do the job better and produce a better product. Will the business pay more for the machines that delivery better products? Maybe or maybe not. In China and third world countries, cheap labor is producing tons of junk that last only long enough to sell because it's more profitable than using expensive machines.

If the cost of labor is exceedingly high, say $25/hr. The business must buy the burger machine to stay in business and the public will have to put up with the crappy burgers because they just can't or won't pay $20 for a good burger.

My point is neither a very high or very low minimum wage is desirable.

Actually, the machine can make burgers as good, if not better, than a human can. It can start with fresh ground custom blends of meat, shape them perfectly every time, and cook them precisely every time.

All that and nobody is using it.

It's still new. There are a number of factor at play here, if you bothered to apply a little thinkery. There is the cost factor. New technology always costs a lot when it first comes out, then the price drops sharply as it is adopted. I used to work in IT at Circuit City. They told us that when the first TV's came out, they were able to make a good profit off each sale for about 40 years. When DVD players came out, that period lasted about 2 years. There is also the period in which the machines have to prove their worth and reliability. You might as well be saying. in 1880, "All that wonderful stuff they say about the telephone and nobody is using it".

 

[hadit]

When people cost more than machines, and machines can do a better job than people, machines will do the job. It used to be that a man could make a career bolting or welding car parts together on an assembly line. Not any more. It used to be that a woman could make a career out of making clothes by hand. Not any more. It used to be that a computer programmer could make a career out of writing file I/O and screen painting routines. Not any more.

I agree that when wage cost are more than machines and those machines can do a better job, those machines will replace the workers. However, there is more to it than that. What if wage costs are much lower than the cost of machines that can do the job better and produce a better product. Will the business pay more for the machines that delivery better products? Maybe or maybe not. In China and third world countries, cheap labor is producing tons of junk that last only long enough to sell because it's more profitable than using expensive machines.

If the cost of labor is exceedingly high, say $25/hr. The business must buy the burger machine to stay in business and the public will have to put up with the crappy burgers because they just can't or won't pay $20 for a good burger.

My point is neither a very high or very low minimum wage is desirable.

Actually, the machine can make burgers as good, if not better, than a human can. It can start with fresh ground custom blends of meat, shape them perfectly every time, and cook them precisely every time.

Can it also collect trays, take out the trash, mop the floor, clean restrooms, police the parking lot, etc etc? That machine would work great for a walk up type restaurant with no dining in option, otherwise you still need employees.

Note that I never said it would replace all employees. In fact, I noted that there would be a few left to call tech support when something went wrong. They would also police the area. Why the need to carry it to the extreme? Perhaps you haven't read everything I wrote on the subject and are operating from ignorance?

You're the one taking things to a bizarre extreme. We will ALWAYS need a minimum wage law, agree or disagree?

Not at this point, no. There is a societal recognition that a wage below a certain amount just isn't worth working for. Of course, that's different for everyone. A single wage earner with 4 children has a much higher threshold than a teenager still living at home.

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

I agree that when wage cost are more than machines and those machines can do a better job, those machines will replace the workers. However, there is more to it than that. What if wage costs are much lower than the cost of machines that can do the job better and produce a better product. Will the business pay more for the machines that delivery better products? Maybe or maybe not. In China and third world countries, cheap labor is producing tons of junk that last only long enough to sell because it's more profitable than using expensive machines.

If the cost of labor is exceedingly high, say $25/hr. The business must buy the burger machine to stay in business and the public will have to put up with the crappy burgers because they just can't or won't pay $20 for a good burger.

My point is neither a very high or very low minimum wage is desirable.

Actually, the machine can make burgers as good, if not better, than a human can. It can start with fresh ground custom blends of meat, shape them perfectly every time, and cook them precisely every time.

Can it also collect trays, take out the trash, mop the floor, clean restrooms, police the parking lot, etc etc? That machine would work great for a walk up type restaurant with no dining in option, otherwise you still need employees.

Note that I never said it would replace all employees. In fact, I noted that there would be a few left to call tech support when something went wrong. They would also police the area. Why the need to carry it to the extreme? Perhaps you haven't read everything I wrote on the subject and are operating from ignorance?

You're the one taking things to a bizarre extreme. We will ALWAYS need a minimum wage law, agree or disagree?

Not at this point, no. There is a societal recognition that a wage below a certain amount just isn't worth working for. Of course, that's different for everyone. A single wage earner with 4 children has a much higher threshold than a teenager still living at home.

In that case, I note that you are just a fucking retard and will retire from the conversation. Good day retard.

 

[hadit]

Actually, the machine can make burgers as good, if not better, than a human can. It can start with fresh ground custom blends of meat, shape them perfectly every time, and cook them precisely every time.

Can it also collect trays, take out the trash, mop the floor, clean restrooms, police the parking lot, etc etc? That machine would work great for a walk up type restaurant with no dining in option, otherwise you still need employees.

Note that I never said it would replace all employees. In fact, I noted that there would be a few left to call tech support when something went wrong. They would also police the area. Why the need to carry it to the extreme? Perhaps you haven't read everything I wrote on the subject and are operating from ignorance?

You're the one taking things to a bizarre extreme. We will ALWAYS need a minimum wage law, agree or disagree?

Not at this point, no. There is a societal recognition that a wage below a certain amount just isn't worth working for. Of course, that's different for everyone. A single wage earner with 4 children has a much higher threshold than a teenager still living at home.

In that case, I note that you are just a fucking retard and will retire from the conversation. Good day retard.

Aw, gee, you got all butthurt and went juvenile.

 

[hadit]

And unemployment going down.

You asked the question wrong .... how many work hours have been created?

We all know that the government has changed the way they calculate the unemployment rate, in order to hide the truth. So, how many of these supposed jobs are full time jobs? What is the average wage per hour of these newly created jobs?

You can't accept the numbers prima facie ... you need to look at the reality that created the numbers.

Sorry but your claims have been proven false. Despite increased machine use unemployment is going down.

You need to revisit this "unemployment is going down' mantra ... it is, simply, false. You are accepting manipulated data put forth by those who are best served by the manipulation.

If employment is going down, why is our labor force participation rate the lowest in 75 years? What is the average $/hour for our workers? What is the average hours/worker trending negative? Counting a part-time job as if it is a full time job is, simply, misleading the public.

All Brain does is rehash the same crap over and over.

History doesn't change and the facts are the facts.

But you attempting to extrapolate from history to predict the future.