Misconception Faith vs. Reason

Discussion in 'Religion and Ethics' started by Phaedrus, May 19, 2006.

  1. Phaedrus
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    Phaedrus Member

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    This is a subject that came up in a different thread, but I thought it deserved more delving into. Looking at Creationism and other theories, such as that of random convergance, there came the idea that something that requires less faith is more reasonable.

    This is a very interesting/odd idea, and I was wondering what you all thought of it. In general, I define faith as something that doesn't require the backing of reason. I realize negative definitions aren't generally the most reliable, but in this case I find it apt.

    This is the secondary definition at http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=faith

    Because of this, I see faith and reason as generally unrelated. However, "People" often construe them as at odds, when it's more often then not that the people themselves are at odds. Just looking for different opinions here, watcha think?

    General question: origin/validty/assessment of the statement "Something that requires less faith is more reasonable"

    Addition: What is your natural characterization of the word "reasonable". What connotations do you associate with it?

    Note: The word require in my definition is important.
     
  2. rtwngAvngr
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    rtwngAvngr Guest

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    People attack the faith of others when they want to change them. The "reason" advocates as they like to think of themselves, are trying to create a society which is not really consistent with the christian worldview, they're creating a totalitarian world using the arguments that "it's best for the majority", pure democracy, mob rule. Christian faith deals with individuals, not THE GROUP and as such, is inherently incompatible with their vision. This is why godless liberals attack christians on almost a daily basis. Christian faith is in their way.
     
  3. The ClayTaurus
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    The ClayTaurus Senior Member

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    That's entirely dependant, I feel. Certainly, on an absolute level, that which requires less faith is more reasonable. Faith fills in for the absence of confirmation. It does not exclude reason, though. Only confirmation.


    However, on a less absolute level, if something requires faith for you personally, it does not make it necessarily less reasonable. There are plenty of complex realities that require the average person's faith, but the requirement of said faith does not detraact from their reasonable-ness.


    And stuff.
     
  4. LOki
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    LOki The Yaweh of Mischief

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    I think that something that requires less faith has more opportunity to be reasonable, while it can still be as unreasonable as all get-out.

    As knowing is probably the greatest impediment to learning--something requiring less faith has less "knowing" (unsupported in logical proof or material evidence) getting in the way of using the faculty of reason to learn the truth, value, or trustworthiness of a person, idea, or thing.

    The application of sound logic and/or verifiable evidence to establish, or judge, the truth, value, or trustworthiness of a person, idea, or thing.

    Connotations=sanity, rationality, and to be valid, objectivity.

    Noted.

    Or they can burn them, stone them, hang them, torture them, dash their babies against rocks, etc...

    Bullshit. :D

    Bullshit. :D

    Bullshit. :D

    Bullshit. :D

    Truth. :thup:

    Is this placing "faith" symbolically in the spot of "I don't know" and then manipulating that "knowledge" within our desciptions of reality that include knowledge (to use your word) confirmed by logic and evidence?

    If so, why not just say "I don't know" or "I am only certain to this degree"?
     
  5. rtwngAvngr
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    rtwngAvngr Guest

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    Jesus H., step into the now.
     
  6. dmp
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    dmp Senior Member

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    EVERYBODY uses Faith. Nobody is completely free of faith. Faith in Science and faith in random chance = Macro evolution. Faith in one's car or one's tires or one's spouse.

    Christian faith, specifically, is under attack - but that's expected and foretold. Christians know non-christians will eventually seek to kill them. It's happened before and is on the way towards happening again.

    (shrug).
     
  7. HopeandGlory
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    HopeandGlory Member

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    I agree with your definition. I have a strong faith but I can't in all honesty apply any reason to it. In fact, if I relied on reason alone, I could argue myself out of all faith!

    I suppose what I do is cherry-pick between the bits I like. I reject certain tenets and doctrines and try to apply what I consider proof-positive scientific evidence to coincide with my beliefs.

    This doesn't come close to explaining away a sense of spirituality. I think :) on the whole, we can think too much and we certainly don't know everything . . . nothing like!

    I don't consider my beliefs to be at odds with each other - I just think it's arrogant of mankind to assume he has or will ever have all the answers. Just as I assume it's foolish of mankind to believe without question, everything that was written down by various mediaeval scribes!
     
  8. The ClayTaurus
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    The ClayTaurus Senior Member

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    Do you not place faith in anything?

    Faith is often required in life so that you don't go insane, as non-intellectual as that sounds. I have no idea of knowing whether or not my girlfriend or wife has/will have cheated on me, as I haven't been tethered to her throughout our relationship. So I must place faith in her, faith based on other factors, so that I'm not a complete nutcase. Faith is not merely a substitution for "I don't know." The two can, but often are not required to be interchangeable.
     
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  9. HopeandGlory
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    HopeandGlory Member

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    Good point. A live devoid of faith would be pretty bleak. I guess most of us base our faith on a number of factors which make it seem more or less viable. It can never be totally infallable.
     
  10. dilloduck
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    dilloduck Diamond Member

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    Agreed--faith is choice you make when you just decide something to be true and/or you have no ability to control it.
     

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