Mike Pence gives finger to Constitution during Republican debate

[Billo_Really]

Never mind, if you couldn't keep up with the thread, it would be lost on you anyway. The really terrible thing is ignorant people like you vote.

If you can't state your point, why are you posting?

 

[johnwk]

Wrong. Due to the very misguided and Constitutionally defective Roe v. Wade decision, the abortion question authority had been seized by the federal government. By overruling Roe, the SCOTUS returned that authority to the States.

Roe v. Wade was defective just as you confirmed. So, its ruling was invalid from its very beginning, hence, the regulation of abortion, according to our Constitution, was always withing the powers reserved by the States. How can the S.C. return a power to the states which was always within their powers?

"The Constitution is the act of the people, speaking in their original character, and defining the permanent conditions of the social alliance; and there can be no doubt on the point with us, that every act of the legislative power contrary to the true intent and meaning of the Constitution, is absolutely null and void. ___ Chancellor James Kent, in his Commentaries on American Law , 1858.

An act, although masquerading as “law”, “imposes no duties, confers no rights, creates no office, bestows no power or authority on anyone, affords no protection, and justifies no acts performed under it.” ___ 16 Am Jur 2d, Sec 177 late 2d, Sec 256

 

[1srelluc]

Yeah, I was like WTF on that one too....SCOTUS sent the issue back to the states to handle, where it belongs.

 

[Concerned American]

If you can't state your point, why are you posting?

I did state my point. If you are incapable of comprehending simple English, why are you posting?

 

[Ordinary Guy]

Chris Christie I noticed talking out of both sides of his mouth on CNN. No one called him on it. But listen to what he said when asked about abortion. He said it's a states rights issue. Each state should decide for themselves". That's the standard Republican reply. But then he went on to admit that "IF our country reached a clear national consensus on the issue, he would sign legislation on a federal level".

Translation. He would sign a federal law saying abortion is murder if Republicans controlled the Senate and House and sent him a bill banning abortion and making it MURDER in the eyes of the law.

And if he wants consensus on this subject, women should know that's what this election is about.

it is murder by any definition, to say otherwise makes one look stupid

 

[BackAgain]

Roe v. Wade was defective just as you confirmed. So, its ruling was invalid from its very beginning, hence, the regulation of abortion, according to our Constitution, was always withing the powers reserved by the States. How can the S.C. return a power to the states which was always within their powers?

"The Constitution is the act of the people, speaking in their original character, and defining the permanent conditions of the social alliance; and there can be no doubt on the point with us, that every act of the legislative power contrary to the true intent and meaning of the Constitution, is absolutely null and void. ___ Chancellor James Kent, in his Commentaries on American Law , 1858.

An act, although masquerading as “law”, “imposes no duties, confers no rights, creates no office, bestows no power or authority on anyone, affords no protection, and justifies no acts performed under it.” ___ 16 Am Jur 2d, Sec 177 late 2d, Sec 256

SCOTUS decisions are not legislative acts.

Further, one can disagree with Pence without claiming that he flipped the bird to our Constitution.

 

[Votto]

So fetus' are citizens?

The question must be asked. What makes someone a human being?


Slaves at one time were not considered human beings either.

 

[Ordinary Guy]

The question must be asked. What makes someone a human being?


Slaves at one time were not considered human beings either.

And it was Democrats that thought that, so is that coincidence?

 

[jbrownson0831]

The question must be asked. What makes someone a human being?


Slaves at one time were not considered human beings either.

Exactly. Mean old Democrats.

 

[Votto]

Exactly. Mean old Democrats.

Democrats did not think slaves were human beings, so why would they think the unborn are?

To them, both are a commodity to make money off of.

Abortion is a billion dollar industry after all.

 

[sealybobo]

The front runner of the GOP is facing 4 indictments. How many counts? Even

it is murder by any definition, to say otherwise makes one look stupid

No. To say 1 in 4 American women are murderers is stupid. You can't murder a seed. It has to be a viable person to murder it.

 

[Votto]

The front runner of the GOP is facing 4 indictments. How many counts? Even

No. To say 1 in 4 American women are murderers is stupid. You can't murder a seed. It has to be a viable person to murder it.

Viable?

Even when born the infant is completely dependent on the mother for survival.

 

[sealybobo]

it is murder by any definition, to say otherwise makes one look stupid

People kill other people in a wide variety of situations, some intentional and not all defined as murder. Police kill people who are in the midst of a crime or suspected of criminal intent, and they often do so with impunity. Soldiers kill in war. We also kill people in self-defense, sometimes as related to Stand Your Ground laws. South Carolina last executed a prisoner by lethal injection in 2011. In 2019, the South Carolina senate voted to bring back the electric chair and firing squad as other execution options. When execution is the punishment, personhood does not protect a prisoner from being killed by the state.

Did George Zimmerman murder Trevon Martin?


In other cases, killing is unrelated to any crime held up as justification. As an ICU physician, I take instruction from my patient's reasonable proxy. That proxy can direct me not to resuscitate, which results in the death of the patient. Is that murder? Assisted suicide is legal in 10 U.S. states and the District of Columbia. Some countries like Canada, Belgium, and Switzerland practice active euthanasia, which kills thousands of people every year. These situations further demonstrate that not all acts of killing are defined as murder, and even individuals who are indisputably considered persons before the law are not always protected by the law from being killed. In cases where individuals cannot give an opinion about their desire to live and under what circumstances, proxies, usually those legally considered their next of kin, are allowed to make decisions on their behalf. Who's a fetus' next of kin?

 

[sealybobo]

Viable?

Even when born the infant is completely dependent on the mother for survival.

Well I agree you can't kill the baby if it's healthy. But if it's got severe birth defects, kill it. It's not murder.

Granting an embryo the status of full legal personhood is, in reality, just another fraudulent way to suppress the decision-making of women.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

During last night’s debate, after whining and dinning our ears to how loyal he is to the Constitution, with reference to President Trump and the 2020 election, Mike Pence went on to take a dump on the Constitution by indicating he wants Congressional legislation banning abortion.

Pence stated:

“When the Supreme Court returned this question to the American people, they didn't just send it to the states only. It's not a states-only issue. It's a moral issue, Pence said. He argued that there should be a minimum standard for abortion to be banned at 15 weeks of pregnancy." SOURCE

First of all, the S. C. did not return the issue of abortion regulation, if any, to the States. It was always within those powers reserved by the states and people therein. The S.C. merely confirmed what our Constitution stated from the beginning.

The irrefutable fact is, there is not a syllable in the Constitution delegating a power to Congress to enter the States and impose Mike Pence’s personal predilections upon the people therein. In fact, the Tenth Amendment codifies into the constitution the supremacy of powers reserve by the states and people therein which are eloquently summarized in Federalist No 45:



Mike Pence needs to take his sanctimonious dog and pony show elsewhere, especially now that he has openly taken a dump on our Constitution.

JWK

When a Republican Legislator demands a national ban on abortions, or a Democrat Legislator demands a total unregulated access to abortion, both are domestic enemies of Federalism, our Constitution’s plan, and need to be excoriated for the traitors they are in wanting to exercise authoritarian power over the states and people therein.

Further proof of the dishonesty of the right; overturning Roe was never about states' rights, it was about more conservative big government authoritarianism.

 

[BackAgain]

Murder is generally defined as the unlawful taking of human life.

A legal execution isn’t murder by that definition.

Self defense ending in the death of another isn’t murder under that definition.

Killing an enemy in time of war is usually not a murder by that definition, either.

Police validly using deadly force in defense of others is akin to self defense. If it is justified in the eyes of the law, it doesn’t qualify as murder, either.

Where abortion is legal, it can’t properly be defined as “murder.” But, the definition can remove abortion from a list of legal authorities for the taking of human life in order to qualify abortion as murder.

 

[Lord Long Rod]

So fetus' are citizens?

Why not?

 

[johnwk]

SCOTUS decisions are not legislative acts.

Further, one can disagree with Pence without claiming that he flipped the bird to our Constitution.

Roe v. Wade was not in harmony with our Constitution. The regulation of abortion, if any, is within those powers reserved by the States under the Tenth Amendment. How can the S.C. return a power to the states which was always within their powers?

Last time I looked, Congress is bound by the terms of our Constitution, and that includes adhering to federalism, our Constitution's big-tent system in which the States and people therein, and not Congress, get to decide on those matters which ". . . in the ordinary course of affairs, concern the lives, liberties, and properties of the people, and the internal order, improvement, and prosperity of the State."

Mike Pence did "flip the bird" to our Constitution when stating he wants federal legislation regulating abortion.

 

[BackAgain]

Roe v. Wade was not in harmony with our Constitution. The regulation of abortion, if any, is within those powers reserved by the States under the Tenth Amendment. How can the S.C. return a power to the states which was always within their powers?

Last time I looked, Congress is bound by the terms of our Constitution, and that includes adhering to federalism, our Constitution's big-tent system in which the States and people therein, and not Congress, get to decide on those matters which ". . . in the ordinary course of affairs, concern the lives, liberties, and properties of the people, and the internal order, improvement, and prosperity of the State."

Mike Pence did "flip the bird" to our Constitution when stating he wants federal legislation regulating abortion.

I agree Roe was invalid. I’m glad the Court finally acknowledged that fact.

And Pence clearly did not “flip the bird” to our Constitution. It’s one thing to disagree with his position. It’s very much another thing to make your silly and baseless claim.

 

[Concerned American]

Further proof of the dishonesty of the right; overturning Roe was never about states' rights, it was about more conservative big government authoritarianism.

Wrong again. It was about the right to life.