Medical Advance??

[Moi]

(CNN) -- The announcement by South Korean scientists that they had created human embryos by cloning and extracted embryonic stem cells has raised concerns around the world.


"The South Korean experiment disturbingly goes significantly further. It produces human embryos for the explicit purpose of fatally mining them to obtain bodily materials for experimental purposes."


However, groups calling for cures for specific diseases disagree, arguing that human embryos are destroyed daily in fertility clinics, in abortions and in natural miscarriages.


"We don't care where they find a cure for this disease," Bob Goldstein of the Juvenile Diabetes Foundation added.


read the entire article here: http://www.cnn.com/2004/HEALTH/02/13/science.clone/index.html


I'm sorry, but is anyone else horrified by this Goldstein's statement that they don't care where they find a cure for a disease? This whole issue not only horrifies me because of the whole embryo thing but also because of the rather naive belief that curing disease is without consequences. There is always a quid pro quo in this world.

What if humankind found out that the way to cure a disease involves every baby being born blind. I mean, hey, they'd live right? What's the big deal if they go without eyes so that others don't have to have a disease? Sounds farfetched, but the repercussions of creating an embryo just to extract stuff from it is truly disturbing to me. Where does it end?

 

[jon_forward]

I guess the small amount "harvested" at child birth was not enough to answer the need...somethings I do believe are sacred, this being one of them...they keep this crap up it will be the down fall of mankind.....some weird shit disease will develop from all the monkeying around and we will cease to exist...

 

[Bullypulpit]

Originally posted by Moi
I'm sorry, but is anyone else horrified by this Goldstein's statement that they don't care where they find a cure for a disease? This whole issue not only horrifies me because of the whole embryo thing but also because of the rather naive belief that curing disease is without consequences. There is always a quid pro quo in this world.

What if humankind found out that the way to cure a disease involves every baby being born blind. I mean, hey, they'd live right? What's the big deal if they go without eyes so that others don't have to have a disease? Sounds farfetched, but the repercussions of creating an embryo just to extract stuff from it is truly disturbing to me. Where does it end?

You're trying to set up a straw-man to knock down. The "embyo" was at the blastocyst stage, about 100 cells and in no way resembles anything even remotely human. It is NOT a human life...It is a basically undifferentiated mass of cells. Trying to cal it a human life is a grossly ignorant overstatement that serves no useful purpose.

The stem cells harvested from such a blastocyst are genetically identical to those of the donor, thus decreasing the risk of rejection of those stem cells when used in treating a disease, like juvenile diabetes.

 

[Moi]

Originally posted by jimnyc
You're welcome. I'm hopeful that you have learned from this experience, but I have my doubts.

Apparently he must first learn to read as well as spell. For no where in my post was the word "human" used in reference to an embyo [sic] nor did I in any way state that my objection was in any way predicated on an E-M-B-R-Y-O being human.

 

[Bullypulpit]

Originally posted by Moi
Apparently he must first learn to read as well as spell. For no where in my post was the word "human" used in reference to an embyo [sic] nor did I in any way state that my objection was in any way predicated on an E-M-B-R-Y-O being human.

No old son...But it was implicit.

 

[jon_forward]

I dont care for the ramifacations of it....good,bad or indifferent...its wrong...you dont mess with mother nature...shes a class grade a bitch...

 

[jon_forward]

make that a capital A

 

[Moi]

Originally posted by Bullypulpit
No old son...But it was implicit.

If you had particular questions you wished to raise, the commonly accepted polite format is to pose them to the author. I did not state nor imply that my objection to this research was because an embryo is human (I did not, in fact, state whether I believed one was or wasn't). What I stated, rather plainly for those with a general command of the English language, is that the embryo research troubles me and that I found it quite disturbing that someone would say that they did not care about how a cure to a disease was founded.

There are many areas in which so-called scientific advances have resulted in dire consequences- drug resistant bacteria ring any bells? The thought that scientists (or their advocates) are not mindful of the generation and consequences of this type of research is scary to me. I do not avail myself of such wonder drugs and medical miracles. However, I cannot live my life unaffected by their existence. It is my hope that by voicing concerns people begin to tread slowly and research the consequences of actions rather than just travel the swift, blind road to scientific glory.

 

[Bullypulpit]

Originally posted by Moi
If you had particular questions you wished to raise, the commonly accepted polite format is to pose them to the author. I did not state nor imply that my objection to this research was because an embryo is human (I did not, in fact, state whether I believed one was or wasn't). What I stated, rather plainly for those with a general command of the English language, is that the embryo research troubles me and that I found it quite disturbing that someone would say that they did not care about how a cure to a disease was founded.

There are many areas in which so-called scientific advances have resulted in dire consequences- drug resistant bacteria ring any bells? The thought that scientists (or their advocates) are not mindful of the generation and consequences of this type of research is scary to me. I do not avail myself of such wonder drugs and medical miracles. However, I cannot live my life unaffected by their existence. It is my hope that by voicing concerns people begin to tread slowly and research the consequences of actions rather than just travel the swift, blind road to scientific glory.

The means seldom justify the ends. The example you used (blind babies) was flawed.

 

[jon_forward]

may be somewhat flawed..to you....I understood what Moi was attemptting to imply.. I too feel this road that science has choosen to go down...if they must go down it at all, should be very slowly as to not endanger the entire human race....It cant be that hard to see, understand or comprehend....

 

[jon_forward]

In a word....carefull.....and the little guy will be in my prayers....

 

[Bullypulpit]

As he shall be in mine.

 

[nbdysfu]

Life involves death disability, loss of loved ones. I have one and now it looks like two older relatives falling victim to alzheimer's. Another died of gastrointestinal cancer that could have been caught if he had been checking up regularly. Another died of a second stroke after a long day of work in his vegetable garden. I also have great memories of all of them, even the latter who died when I was four. I can't help but thinking if he had a slightly healthier diet(he had his own deep fryer), it would have saved him. Or modern medical innovations might have been able to monitor his heart more accurately.

I am for stem stell research on one side, because I have experienced loss and I sympathize with those that this could benefit. I agree with Moi that medical innovation has usually created problems along with the ones it solves.

I think at some point we have to accept our own physical mortality, even though our humanity desires that we live by our wills rather than our bodies.

How will I live on health foods till I am eighty, when I can fish for crab off the dock with my kids, deep fry them (the crabs) and die blissfully at fifty? For me that would depend on who and in what state I leave them behind. Some don't get this choice, and I feel sorry for them. But it in the end it is not how many years you acrue, it is only how well you spend them.

 

[Bullypulpit]

My 5 year old nephew has been diabetic for 2 years. But, as an RN I'm predjudiced towards any research which will improve the lives of those I care for.

 

[tim_duncan2000]

"We don't care where they find a cure for this disease," Bob Goldstein of the Juvenile Diabetes Foundation added.

Surely he doesn't really mean that. I mean, I can't imagine that he'd want a cure that resulted from the killing of others (like what happened in that so-so Hugh Grant and Gene Hackman movie Extreme Measures, as if that would happen in real life).

However, groups calling for cures for specific diseases disagree, arguing that human embryos are destroyed daily in fertility clinics

I've wondered why they couldn't just use those. They are going to throw them out anyway and if they had the permission of the donors, why couldn't they use them?

 

[jon_forward]

my thought is this.....once a line[as yet undetermined] is crossed there is no going back...

 

[Moi]

I don't think anyone wants others to suffer. I have certainly never made another human being suffer, never wished for children to get horrible diseases and I've always lended a hand when I could to make someone's life better.

As much as it tugs at the heart strings that children and others suffer, disregarding the consequences of our actions and thinking that everyone should live forever with no sickness is absurd. Unfortunately, the debate about medical research clearly shows there are morons out there who espouse the "damn the consequences" attitude held by this Goldstein guy. That's what this post was about. That there needs to be some curtailment to these efforts.


People weren't meant to live forever. Organisms will continue to be born damaged and diseases will continue to develop. Personally, I understand why people want to fight diseases if they had relatives who were affected. However, that understanding does not obliterate my fear that by engaging in these actions something worse is around the corner. We need to be mindful of the consequences of our actions and begin to take some responsibility as ordinary citizens for creating some guidelines for this type of research.

 

[Bullypulpit]

Originally posted by jon_forward
my thought is this.....once a line[as yet undetermined] is crossed there is no going back...

Sorry jon, this djinn is already out of the bottle. The best we can hope for now is that sanity prevails. No cloning of humans or animals...no chimera...just stem cells.

 

[jon_forward]

in all of history in the field of science when the envelope has been pushed out there....when has it ever been retracted.... never!!! that what scares me...

 

[wonderwench]

For those who claim that we shouldn't mess with mother nature:

How do you feel about anti-biotics?
How do you feel about surgery to correct cleft palettes?
How do you feel about eye glasses and contact lenses?
How do you feel about organ transplants?

We live longer than our ancestors precisely because we have used our cognitive and conceptual abilities to create medical technology which prolongs life and makes it healthier.

I have no problems with this type of research. If someday, my heart is failing and a new organ can be grown to save my life - fabulous. It is entirely plausible that organs can be grown without having to harvest them from another human.

The analogy of living longer by blinding babies is specious. Nobody in their right mind advocates forcibly ending a life to save another. A hundred cells is not a human life.

My husband is a Type I diabetic. If he could receive a new pancrease or platelette cells to cure his diabetes, I would be overjoyed. Without research, this will never happen.