Lowering Corporate Tax Rates The Coward’s Way

[g5000]

I have low expectations of my fellow Americans to sacrifice their money saving(damn sarcasm again) deductions, I guess.

The American people have been seriously misled. The thing about the present day Republican Party (post year 2000) is their abdication of the moral high ground, their utter failure to make the case for fiscal conservatism. REAL fiscal conservatism.

Instead, they became spineless populists. The most cowardly partisan hacks who have ever walked the Earth.

If the Right grew a fucking spine and some brain cells, it would be a very SIMPLE matter to educate the American people on this course.

The GOP establishment are not conservatives, they are progressives that call themselves Republicans…

We are finally in agreement on something.

 

[Rustic]

You can get rid of all the special interest tax breaks except the ones that affect me. </sarcasm>

Well, that's the thing. We could leave in place both the mortgage interest deduction (with caps on how much the mortgage is) and tax breaks to employers providing workers's HC benefits. That has the disadvantage of treating taxpayers differently, but the idea is to pass something that makes it better.

In exchange for giving up the tax breaks, corporations could see their tax rate lowered in a revenue neutral way.

Also, the CBO or someone could score how much we need to tax profits kept overseas, to make it about equal for a corp to bring them back here and face taxes.

And, as G5000 is suggesting, a border adjustment tax would allow for some further corp tax rate deduction.

I don't agree with 5000 if he's saying we need to go completely to consumption (rather than earning) tax because that is a regressive move. Instead we could lower the corp rate even further by taxing cap gains at a higher rate.

OF COURSE ALL THIS IS HYPOTHETICAL NOW BECAUSE TRUMP WANTS A WINNER. He could not care less about deficits so long as he gets 'real tax reform passed that lowers rates."

Oh I agree completely and I would love to see tax reform of this type.

I have low expectations of my fellow Americans to sacrifice their money saving(damn sarcasm again) deductions, I guess.

Right now I have three years of extensions on my income tax so my accountant can find ways to save as much money as possible. Of course I only do that in principal, I pay far more for my accountant fees then I do in taxes.

If there were no tax expenditures, you could fill out your taxes in five minutes, on a postcard. And you would be paying a much lower tax rate.

Accountants hate the very idea of that. They lobby to keep your taxes as complicated as possible.

True, but I would rather see the money go to someone like a local accountant then to the federal government, on principle alone.

 

[g5000]

Here is the original individual tax return: https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-utl/1913.pdf

Check out page 3.

This is what we need to go back to.

 

[g5000]

You can get rid of all the special interest tax breaks except the ones that affect me. </sarcasm>

Well, that's the thing. We could leave in place both the mortgage interest deduction (with caps on how much the mortgage is) and tax breaks to employers providing workers's HC benefits. That has the disadvantage of treating taxpayers differently, but the idea is to pass something that makes it better.

In exchange for giving up the tax breaks, corporations could see their tax rate lowered in a revenue neutral way.

Also, the CBO or someone could score how much we need to tax profits kept overseas, to make it about equal for a corp to bring them back here and face taxes.

And, as G5000 is suggesting, a border adjustment tax would allow for some further corp tax rate deduction.

I don't agree with 5000 if he's saying we need to go completely to consumption (rather than earning) tax because that is a regressive move. Instead we could lower the corp rate even further by taxing cap gains at a higher rate.

OF COURSE ALL THIS IS HYPOTHETICAL NOW BECAUSE TRUMP WANTS A WINNER. He could not care less about deficits so long as he gets 'real tax reform passed that lowers rates."

Oh I agree completely and I would love to see tax reform of this type.

I have low expectations of my fellow Americans to sacrifice their money saving(damn sarcasm again) deductions, I guess.

Right now I have three years of extensions on my income tax so my accountant can find ways to save as much money as possible. Of course I only do that in principal, I pay far more for my accountant fees then I do in taxes.

If there were no tax expenditures, you could fill out your taxes in five minutes, on a postcard. And you would be paying a much lower tax rate.

Accountants hate the very idea of that. They lobby to keep your taxes as complicated as possible.

True, but I would rather see the money go to someone like a local accountant then to the federal government, on principle alone.

That's not the equation. In a world of no tax expenditures, money you save by not going to an accountant would not be going to the government. This would be a situation where you really do get to keep more of your own money.

 

[Rustic]

Here is the original individual tax return: https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-utl/1913.pdf

Check out page 3.

This is what we need to go back to.

Agree, then I could just pay one of my daughters to do my taxes for me...

 

[BuckToothMoron]

As I have explained many times, every time you give a special interest a tax break, someone else has to make up the difference. This is achieved by raising tax rates on everyone. So even the lobby that got the tax break now has a higher tax rate, along with everyone else.

However, if we raised tax rates high enough to pay for the $1.4 trillion of them that are given out each year, the American people would revolt. So tax rates are raised to a barely tolerable level, and then the rest is borrowed.

And that is how we got to $19 trillion in debt and a 39.1% corporate tax rate.

As I have explained many times, if you get rid of all these government gifts to all these special interests, you could substantially lower tax rates. And you get the extra bonus of everyone being on a level playing field. Entities which earn identical incomes would pay identical taxes.

Instead, we have an insane system where entities which earn identical incomes pay radically different taxes.

Enter the House Ways and Means Committee, chaired by Kevin Brady. This committee came up with a plan to do just what I have been saying for years. They came up with a plan to lower the corporate tax rate substantially by getting rid of all those government giveaways.

Their original plan was simple. Get rid of all the special interest deductions, credits, and exemptions.

Guess what? Those special interests are so powerful that this turned out to be impossible. Our Congress is now completely owned, boys and girls, and it is long past time to wake the fuck up to this fact.

You simply must wake up. Anyone who defends $1.4 trillion of thievery is on the wrong side, and yet we are burdened with pseudocons who do just that. They defend deductions, credits, and exemptions which add up to $1.4 trillion like they are welfare queens.

They have been fed a lie that these tax expenditures mean they get to keep more of their own money. This is a giant lie. A YUGE lie.

As it happened, every time the House Ways and Means committee tried to take away all those special interest tax breaks, the special interests forced them back in. Which then forced the House Ways and Means to raise tax rates back to 39.1%.

Impasse.

So House Ways and Means came up with Plan B: The border adjustment tax. It’s real name is a “destination-based cash flow tax”, but the colloquial term is border adjustment tax.

The border adjustment tax is, very basically, an import tax. Even better, it’s a consumption tax. The corporate tax is a tax on production.

All of our allies have a border adjustment tax. We don’t. We’ve been living on that unlevel playing field forever. Now that House Ways and Means introduced the idea of the US moving to one, our allies are screaming at how unfair it would be for us to have the same kind of import tax they do!

Go figure.

We can get into the pluses and minuses of a border adjustment tax a little later. But for now, here’s how the GOP plan was going to work.

Since the special interests refused to give up their special tax breaks, the GOP decided to leave them in.

Since the special interests want their cake and to eat it, too, they also got the corporate tax rate lowered. To somewhere around 15%.

Because of this, all the lost revenue due to the tax breaks was no longer made up for by the 39.1% tax rate. So House Ways and Means intended to make up the lost revenues with the Border Adjustment Tax.

Enter Trump.

Donald Trump was “ambivalent”, at best, about the Border Adjustment Tax. And now he has decided he is against it.

So bye-bye Border Adjustment Tax.


But…he is keeping the lower corporate tax rate AND all those special interest tax breaks. And that means, boys and girls, a gigantic spurt in national debt if the Trump way comes to pass.


This is a total cop-out. It is the coward’s way out, and every fiscal conservative should be vehemently opposed to this.

There are 2 sides to every equation, and you are addressing the revenue side of the debt equation. The spending side is at least as treacherous as the revenue side. We have a national debt in excess of $19 trillion. Congress, be they left or right, has shown they are unable to control spending. If the government stole all the wealth of the 400 riches Americans, they would only pay down the debt about 12%. The reality is there is a limit to how much you can tax, and the spending limit is well beyond the taxing limit.

 

[bendog]

In exchange for giving up the tax breaks, corporations could see their tax rate lowered in a revenue neutral way.

Bingo. You got it. Exactly.

But as Nunes explains, the corporations REFUSED to go along with it. Game theory is very much at work here, except it is destroying our country.

And since Trump is not going to allow the BAT, our deficits will climb even higher if the corporate tax rate is lowered without taking away the tax breaks or adding the border adjustment tax.

The video doesn't play at work. All I could do was read the article. But yeah, dropping the corp rate real low w/o the border adjustment tax blows up the deficits.

And as for regressive effects of consumption tax, if revenue from that went NOT to corp rates but instead to lowering personal income tax rates on the middle class, then there would be less negative effect on consumption/demand - which Trump said he was for when he was having his rallies.

The overall point is that if tax reform included lower rates for workers AND a less market distortion for employers, Trump would be getting votes from some dems.

BUT ALL THAT IS IRRELEVANT. Because Trump wants to divert attention from Russia, to have a big win without the dems even if he has to settle for a three year window because he can't get 60 votes. And of course, he gets a Yuuuuge Tax Cut.

 

[Rustic]

As I have explained many times, every time you give a special interest a tax break, someone else has to make up the difference. This is achieved by raising tax rates on everyone. So even the lobby that got the tax break now has a higher tax rate, along with everyone else.

However, if we raised tax rates high enough to pay for the $1.4 trillion of them that are given out each year, the American people would revolt. So tax rates are raised to a barely tolerable level, and then the rest is borrowed.

And that is how we got to $19 trillion in debt and a 39.1% corporate tax rate.

As I have explained many times, if you get rid of all these government gifts to all these special interests, you could substantially lower tax rates. And you get the extra bonus of everyone being on a level playing field. Entities which earn identical incomes would pay identical taxes.

Instead, we have an insane system where entities which earn identical incomes pay radically different taxes.

Enter the House Ways and Means Committee, chaired by Kevin Brady. This committee came up with a plan to do just what I have been saying for years. They came up with a plan to lower the corporate tax rate substantially by getting rid of all those government giveaways.

Their original plan was simple. Get rid of all the special interest deductions, credits, and exemptions.

Guess what? Those special interests are so powerful that this turned out to be impossible. Our Congress is now completely owned, boys and girls, and it is long past time to wake the fuck up to this fact.

You simply must wake up. Anyone who defends $1.4 trillion of thievery is on the wrong side, and yet we are burdened with pseudocons who do just that. They defend deductions, credits, and exemptions which add up to $1.4 trillion like they are welfare queens.

They have been fed a lie that these tax expenditures mean they get to keep more of their own money. This is a giant lie. A YUGE lie.

As it happened, every time the House Ways and Means committee tried to take away all those special interest tax breaks, the special interests forced them back in. Which then forced the House Ways and Means to raise tax rates back to 39.1%.

Impasse.

So House Ways and Means came up with Plan B: The border adjustment tax. It’s real name is a “destination-based cash flow tax”, but the colloquial term is border adjustment tax.

The border adjustment tax is, very basically, an import tax. Even better, it’s a consumption tax. The corporate tax is a tax on production.

All of our allies have a border adjustment tax. We don’t. We’ve been living on that unlevel playing field forever. Now that House Ways and Means introduced the idea of the US moving to one, our allies are screaming at how unfair it would be for us to have the same kind of import tax they do!

Go figure.

We can get into the pluses and minuses of a border adjustment tax a little later. But for now, here’s how the GOP plan was going to work.

Since the special interests refused to give up their special tax breaks, the GOP decided to leave them in.

Since the special interests want their cake and to eat it, too, they also got the corporate tax rate lowered. To somewhere around 15%.

Because of this, all the lost revenue due to the tax breaks was no longer made up for by the 39.1% tax rate. So House Ways and Means intended to make up the lost revenues with the Border Adjustment Tax.

Enter Trump.

Donald Trump was “ambivalent”, at best, about the Border Adjustment Tax. And now he has decided he is against it.

So bye-bye Border Adjustment Tax.


But…he is keeping the lower corporate tax rate AND all those special interest tax breaks. And that means, boys and girls, a gigantic spurt in national debt if the Trump way comes to pass.


This is a total cop-out. It is the coward’s way out, and every fiscal conservative should be vehemently opposed to this.

There are 2 sides to every equation, and you are addressing the revenue side of the debt equation. The spending side is at least as treacherous as the revenue side. We have a national debt in excess of $19 trillion. Congress, be they left or right, has shown they are unable to control spending. If the government stole all the wealth of the 400 riches Americans, they would only pay down the debt about 12%. The reality is there is a limit to how much you can tax, and the spending limit is well beyond the taxing limit.

That's what I've been saying all along, we are fucked. There is not enough money to pay for the debt that career politicians put on to this country.

 

[bendog]

As I have explained many times, every time you give a special interest a tax break, someone else has to make up the difference. This is achieved by raising tax rates on everyone. So even the lobby that got the tax break now has a higher tax rate, along with everyone else.

However, if we raised tax rates high enough to pay for the $1.4 trillion of them that are given out each year, the American people would revolt. So tax rates are raised to a barely tolerable level, and then the rest is borrowed.

And that is how we got to $19 trillion in debt and a 39.1% corporate tax rate.

As I have explained many times, if you get rid of all these government gifts to all these special interests, you could substantially lower tax rates. And you get the extra bonus of everyone being on a level playing field. Entities which earn identical incomes would pay identical taxes.

Instead, we have an insane system where entities which earn identical incomes pay radically different taxes.

Enter the House Ways and Means Committee, chaired by Kevin Brady. This committee came up with a plan to do just what I have been saying for years. They came up with a plan to lower the corporate tax rate substantially by getting rid of all those government giveaways.

Their original plan was simple. Get rid of all the special interest deductions, credits, and exemptions.

Guess what? Those special interests are so powerful that this turned out to be impossible. Our Congress is now completely owned, boys and girls, and it is long past time to wake the fuck up to this fact.

You simply must wake up. Anyone who defends $1.4 trillion of thievery is on the wrong side, and yet we are burdened with pseudocons who do just that. They defend deductions, credits, and exemptions which add up to $1.4 trillion like they are welfare queens.

They have been fed a lie that these tax expenditures mean they get to keep more of their own money. This is a giant lie. A YUGE lie.

As it happened, every time the House Ways and Means committee tried to take away all those special interest tax breaks, the special interests forced them back in. Which then forced the House Ways and Means to raise tax rates back to 39.1%.

Impasse.

So House Ways and Means came up with Plan B: The border adjustment tax. It’s real name is a “destination-based cash flow tax”, but the colloquial term is border adjustment tax.

The border adjustment tax is, very basically, an import tax. Even better, it’s a consumption tax. The corporate tax is a tax on production.

All of our allies have a border adjustment tax. We don’t. We’ve been living on that unlevel playing field forever. Now that House Ways and Means introduced the idea of the US moving to one, our allies are screaming at how unfair it would be for us to have the same kind of import tax they do!

Go figure.

We can get into the pluses and minuses of a border adjustment tax a little later. But for now, here’s how the GOP plan was going to work.

Since the special interests refused to give up their special tax breaks, the GOP decided to leave them in.

Since the special interests want their cake and to eat it, too, they also got the corporate tax rate lowered. To somewhere around 15%.

Because of this, all the lost revenue due to the tax breaks was no longer made up for by the 39.1% tax rate. So House Ways and Means intended to make up the lost revenues with the Border Adjustment Tax.

Enter Trump.

Donald Trump was “ambivalent”, at best, about the Border Adjustment Tax. And now he has decided he is against it.

So bye-bye Border Adjustment Tax.


But…he is keeping the lower corporate tax rate AND all those special interest tax breaks. And that means, boys and girls, a gigantic spurt in national debt if the Trump way comes to pass.


This is a total cop-out. It is the coward’s way out, and every fiscal conservative should be vehemently opposed to this.

There are 2 sides to every equation, and you are addressing the revenue side of the debt equation. The spending side is at least as treacherous as the revenue side. We have a national debt in excess of $19 trillion. Congress, be they left or right, has shown they are unable to control spending. If the government stole all the wealth of the 400 riches Americans, they would only pay down the debt about 12%. The reality is there is a limit to how much you can tax, and the spending limit is well beyond the taxing limit.

Trump is increasing spending. And the dems are fighting cuts to domestic spending. Spending is off the board.

 

[g5000]

When I first saw the video of Congressman Nunes this past February, he skyrocketed in my esteem. You can tell he's fucking pissed at all the special interests who are forcing the corporate tax rate up. Really pissed.

You're looking at a genuine fiscal conservative who gets it. Really gets it. And he's trying his best to do something about it.

He dropped in my esteem when he started throwing up a smokescreen for Trump over the whole bogus wiretap thing. But at least he's done the right thing and recused himself.

 

[g5000]

As I have explained many times, every time you give a special interest a tax break, someone else has to make up the difference. This is achieved by raising tax rates on everyone. So even the lobby that got the tax break now has a higher tax rate, along with everyone else.

However, if we raised tax rates high enough to pay for the $1.4 trillion of them that are given out each year, the American people would revolt. So tax rates are raised to a barely tolerable level, and then the rest is borrowed.

And that is how we got to $19 trillion in debt and a 39.1% corporate tax rate.

As I have explained many times, if you get rid of all these government gifts to all these special interests, you could substantially lower tax rates. And you get the extra bonus of everyone being on a level playing field. Entities which earn identical incomes would pay identical taxes.

Instead, we have an insane system where entities which earn identical incomes pay radically different taxes.

Enter the House Ways and Means Committee, chaired by Kevin Brady. This committee came up with a plan to do just what I have been saying for years. They came up with a plan to lower the corporate tax rate substantially by getting rid of all those government giveaways.

Their original plan was simple. Get rid of all the special interest deductions, credits, and exemptions.

Guess what? Those special interests are so powerful that this turned out to be impossible. Our Congress is now completely owned, boys and girls, and it is long past time to wake the fuck up to this fact.

You simply must wake up. Anyone who defends $1.4 trillion of thievery is on the wrong side, and yet we are burdened with pseudocons who do just that. They defend deductions, credits, and exemptions which add up to $1.4 trillion like they are welfare queens.

They have been fed a lie that these tax expenditures mean they get to keep more of their own money. This is a giant lie. A YUGE lie.

As it happened, every time the House Ways and Means committee tried to take away all those special interest tax breaks, the special interests forced them back in. Which then forced the House Ways and Means to raise tax rates back to 39.1%.

Impasse.

So House Ways and Means came up with Plan B: The border adjustment tax. It’s real name is a “destination-based cash flow tax”, but the colloquial term is border adjustment tax.

The border adjustment tax is, very basically, an import tax. Even better, it’s a consumption tax. The corporate tax is a tax on production.

All of our allies have a border adjustment tax. We don’t. We’ve been living on that unlevel playing field forever. Now that House Ways and Means introduced the idea of the US moving to one, our allies are screaming at how unfair it would be for us to have the same kind of import tax they do!

Go figure.

We can get into the pluses and minuses of a border adjustment tax a little later. But for now, here’s how the GOP plan was going to work.

Since the special interests refused to give up their special tax breaks, the GOP decided to leave them in.

Since the special interests want their cake and to eat it, too, they also got the corporate tax rate lowered. To somewhere around 15%.

Because of this, all the lost revenue due to the tax breaks was no longer made up for by the 39.1% tax rate. So House Ways and Means intended to make up the lost revenues with the Border Adjustment Tax.

Enter Trump.

Donald Trump was “ambivalent”, at best, about the Border Adjustment Tax. And now he has decided he is against it.

So bye-bye Border Adjustment Tax.


But…he is keeping the lower corporate tax rate AND all those special interest tax breaks. And that means, boys and girls, a gigantic spurt in national debt if the Trump way comes to pass.


This is a total cop-out. It is the coward’s way out, and every fiscal conservative should be vehemently opposed to this.

There are 2 sides to every equation, and you are addressing the revenue side of the debt equation. The spending side is at least as treacherous as the revenue side. We have a national debt in excess of $19 trillion. Congress, be they left or right, has shown they are unable to control spending. If the government stole all the wealth of the 400 riches Americans, they would only pay down the debt about 12%. The reality is there is a limit to how much you can tax, and the spending limit is well beyond the taxing limit.

That's what I've been saying all along, we are fucked. There is not enough money to pay for the debt that career politicians put on to this country.

Actually, there is enough money to pay down the debt. More than enough.

It's what I have tried to explain a zillion times. If you ban tax expenditures, you will have a trillion dollar surplus. You spend the surplus by using part to reduce tax rates (as Nunes is trying to do), and part to pay down the debt. Then once the debt is paid off, you lower tax rates even more.

You would also have the benefit of an economy which would boom on such a level playing field.

 

[Rustic]

Well, that's the thing. We could leave in place both the mortgage interest deduction (with caps on how much the mortgage is) and tax breaks to employers providing workers's HC benefits. That has the disadvantage of treating taxpayers differently, but the idea is to pass something that makes it better.

In exchange for giving up the tax breaks, corporations could see their tax rate lowered in a revenue neutral way.

Also, the CBO or someone could score how much we need to tax profits kept overseas, to make it about equal for a corp to bring them back here and face taxes.

And, as G5000 is suggesting, a border adjustment tax would allow for some further corp tax rate deduction.

I don't agree with 5000 if he's saying we need to go completely to consumption (rather than earning) tax because that is a regressive move. Instead we could lower the corp rate even further by taxing cap gains at a higher rate.

OF COURSE ALL THIS IS HYPOTHETICAL NOW BECAUSE TRUMP WANTS A WINNER. He could not care less about deficits so long as he gets 'real tax reform passed that lowers rates."

Oh I agree completely and I would love to see tax reform of this type.

I have low expectations of my fellow Americans to sacrifice their money saving(damn sarcasm again) deductions, I guess.

Right now I have three years of extensions on my income tax so my accountant can find ways to save as much money as possible. Of course I only do that in principal, I pay far more for my accountant fees then I do in taxes.

If there were no tax expenditures, you could fill out your taxes in five minutes, on a postcard. And you would be paying a much lower tax rate.

Accountants hate the very idea of that. They lobby to keep your taxes as complicated as possible.

True, but I would rather see the money go to someone like a local accountant then to the federal government, on principle alone.

That's not the equation. In a world of no tax expenditures, money you save by not going to an accountant would not be going to the government. This would be a situation where you really do get to keep more of your own money.

See that's the problem, with an over-bearing, obese federal government and the concept of a safety net counts on human nature to do the right thing, It never has happened in history…

 

[g5000]

Real tax reform would have another benefit. The people who lend money to the government would suddenly have much more faith in our ability to honor our debts, and interest rates would drop, making the interest on our debt easier to manage.

It's win/win.

 

[g5000]

Oh I agree completely and I would love to see tax reform of this type.

I have low expectations of my fellow Americans to sacrifice their money saving(damn sarcasm again) deductions, I guess.

Right now I have three years of extensions on my income tax so my accountant can find ways to save as much money as possible. Of course I only do that in principal, I pay far more for my accountant fees then I do in taxes.

If there were no tax expenditures, you could fill out your taxes in five minutes, on a postcard. And you would be paying a much lower tax rate.

Accountants hate the very idea of that. They lobby to keep your taxes as complicated as possible.

True, but I would rather see the money go to someone like a local accountant then to the federal government, on principle alone.

That's not the equation. In a world of no tax expenditures, money you save by not going to an accountant would not be going to the government. This would be a situation where you really do get to keep more of your own money.

See that's the problem, with an over-bearing, obese federal government and the concept of a safety net counts on human nature to do the right thing, It never has happened in history…

Yes it has. In 1986. Reagan enacted tax reform very much like what is being proposed now. Huge swaths of tax expenditures were slaughtered.

 

[DarkFury]

As I have explained many times, every time you give a special interest a tax break, someone else has to make up the difference. This is achieved by raising tax rates on everyone. So even the lobby that got the tax break now has a higher tax rate, along with everyone else.

However, if we raised tax rates high enough to pay for the $1.4 trillion of them that are given out each year, the American people would revolt. So tax rates are raised to a barely tolerable level, and then the rest is borrowed.

And that is how we got to $19 trillion in debt and a 39.1% corporate tax rate.

As I have explained many times, if you get rid of all these government gifts to all these special interests, you could substantially lower tax rates. And you get the extra bonus of everyone being on a level playing field. Entities which earn identical incomes would pay identical taxes.

Instead, we have an insane system where entities which earn identical incomes pay radically different taxes.

Enter the House Ways and Means Committee, chaired by Kevin Brady. This committee came up with a plan to do just what I have been saying for years. They came up with a plan to lower the corporate tax rate substantially by getting rid of all those government giveaways.

Their original plan was simple. Get rid of all the special interest deductions, credits, and exemptions.

Guess what? Those special interests are so powerful that this turned out to be impossible. Our Congress is now completely owned, boys and girls, and it is long past time to wake the fuck up to this fact.

You simply must wake up. Anyone who defends $1.4 trillion of thievery is on the wrong side, and yet we are burdened with pseudocons who do just that. They defend deductions, credits, and exemptions which add up to $1.4 trillion like they are welfare queens.

They have been fed a lie that these tax expenditures mean they get to keep more of their own money. This is a giant lie. A YUGE lie.

As it happened, every time the House Ways and Means committee tried to take away all those special interest tax breaks, the special interests forced them back in. Which then forced the House Ways and Means to raise tax rates back to 39.1%.

Impasse.

So House Ways and Means came up with Plan B: The border adjustment tax. It’s real name is a “destination-based cash flow tax”, but the colloquial term is border adjustment tax.

The border adjustment tax is, very basically, an import tax. Even better, it’s a consumption tax. The corporate tax is a tax on production.

All of our allies have a border adjustment tax. We don’t. We’ve been living on that unlevel playing field forever. Now that House Ways and Means introduced the idea of the US moving to one, our allies are screaming at how unfair it would be for us to have the same kind of import tax they do!

Go figure.

We can get into the pluses and minuses of a border adjustment tax a little later. But for now, here’s how the GOP plan was going to work.

Since the special interests refused to give up their special tax breaks, the GOP decided to leave them in.

Since the special interests want their cake and to eat it, too, they also got the corporate tax rate lowered. To somewhere around 15%.

Because of this, all the lost revenue due to the tax breaks was no longer made up for by the 39.1% tax rate. So House Ways and Means intended to make up the lost revenues with the Border Adjustment Tax.

Enter Trump.

Donald Trump was “ambivalent”, at best, about the Border Adjustment Tax. And now he has decided he is against it.

So bye-bye Border Adjustment Tax.


But…he is keeping the lower corporate tax rate AND all those special interest tax breaks. And that means, boys and girls, a gigantic spurt in national debt if the Trump way comes to pass.


This is a total cop-out. It is the coward’s way out, and every fiscal conservative should be vehemently opposed to this.

Whats your plan, G?

I hope it involves him sticking his head in a toilet and flushing!

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

As I have explained many times, every time you give a special interest a tax break, someone else has to make up the difference. This is achieved by raising tax rates on everyone. So even the lobby that got the tax break now has a higher tax rate, along with everyone else.

However, if we raised tax rates high enough to pay for the $1.4 trillion of them that are given out each year, the American people would revolt. So tax rates are raised to a barely tolerable level, and then the rest is borrowed.

And that is how we got to $19 trillion in debt and a 39.1% corporate tax rate.

As I have explained many times, if you get rid of all these government gifts to all these special interests, you could substantially lower tax rates. And you get the extra bonus of everyone being on a level playing field. Entities which earn identical incomes would pay identical taxes.

Instead, we have an insane system where entities which earn identical incomes pay radically different taxes.

Enter the House Ways and Means Committee, chaired by Kevin Brady. This committee came up with a plan to do just what I have been saying for years. They came up with a plan to lower the corporate tax rate substantially by getting rid of all those government giveaways.

Their original plan was simple. Get rid of all the special interest deductions, credits, and exemptions.

Guess what? Those special interests are so powerful that this turned out to be impossible. Our Congress is now completely owned, boys and girls, and it is long past time to wake the fuck up to this fact.

You simply must wake up. Anyone who defends $1.4 trillion of thievery is on the wrong side, and yet we are burdened with pseudocons who do just that. They defend deductions, credits, and exemptions which add up to $1.4 trillion.

They have been fed a lie that these tax expenditures mean they get to keep more of their own money. This is a giant lie. A YUGE lie.

As it happened, every time the House Ways and Means committee tried to take away all those special interest tax breaks, the special interests forced them back in. Which then forced the House Ways and Means to raise tax rates back to 39.1%.

Impasse.

So House Ways and Means came up with Plan B: The border adjustment tax. It’s real name is a “destination-based cash flow tax”, but the colloquial term is border adjustment tax.

The border adjustment tax is, very basically, an import tax. Even better, it’s a consumption tax. The corporate tax is a tax on production.

All of our allies have a border adjustment tax. We don’t. We’ve been living on that unlevel playing field forever. Now that House Ways and Means introduced the idea of the US moving to one, our allies are screaming at how unfair it would be for us to have the same kind of import tax they do!

Go figure.

We can get into the pluses and minuses of a border adjustment tax a little later. But for now, here’s how the GOP plan was going to work.

Since the special interests refused to give up their special tax breaks, the GOP decided to leave them in.

Since the special interests want their cake and to eat it, too, they also got the corporate tax rate lowered. To somewhere around 15%.

Because of this, all the lost revenue due to the tax breaks was no longer made up for by the 39.1% tax rate. So House Ways and Means intended to make up the lost revenues with the Border Adjustment Tax.

Enter Trump.

Donald Trump was “ambivalent”, at best, about the Border Adjustment Tax. And now he has decided he is against it.

So bye-bye Border Adjustment Tax.


But…he is keeping the lower corporate tax rate AND all those special interest tax breaks. And that means, boys and girls, a gigantic spurt in national debt if the Trump way comes to pass.


This is a total cop-out. It is the coward’s way out, and every fiscal conservative should be vehemently opposed to this.

An insanely high corporate tax rate that we happen to have now, along with the stupidity of capital gains tax makes for a weak economy… Fact

G lives in the classic liberal lala land where money is finite. If the gubmint don't get this $, then it has to get that $. They don't understand t hat taking a $ from an entity that does nothing but spend it, and giving it to entity t hat will grow it is a +. What generates more taxes, $1 or $5?

 

[Rustic]

As I have explained many times, every time you give a special interest a tax break, someone else has to make up the difference. This is achieved by raising tax rates on everyone. So even the lobby that got the tax break now has a higher tax rate, along with everyone else.

However, if we raised tax rates high enough to pay for the $1.4 trillion of them that are given out each year, the American people would revolt. So tax rates are raised to a barely tolerable level, and then the rest is borrowed.

And that is how we got to $19 trillion in debt and a 39.1% corporate tax rate.

As I have explained many times, if you get rid of all these government gifts to all these special interests, you could substantially lower tax rates. And you get the extra bonus of everyone being on a level playing field. Entities which earn identical incomes would pay identical taxes.

Instead, we have an insane system where entities which earn identical incomes pay radically different taxes.

Enter the House Ways and Means Committee, chaired by Kevin Brady. This committee came up with a plan to do just what I have been saying for years. They came up with a plan to lower the corporate tax rate substantially by getting rid of all those government giveaways.

Their original plan was simple. Get rid of all the special interest deductions, credits, and exemptions.

Guess what? Those special interests are so powerful that this turned out to be impossible. Our Congress is now completely owned, boys and girls, and it is long past time to wake the fuck up to this fact.

You simply must wake up. Anyone who defends $1.4 trillion of thievery is on the wrong side, and yet we are burdened with pseudocons who do just that. They defend deductions, credits, and exemptions which add up to $1.4 trillion like they are welfare queens.

They have been fed a lie that these tax expenditures mean they get to keep more of their own money. This is a giant lie. A YUGE lie.

As it happened, every time the House Ways and Means committee tried to take away all those special interest tax breaks, the special interests forced them back in. Which then forced the House Ways and Means to raise tax rates back to 39.1%.

Impasse.

So House Ways and Means came up with Plan B: The border adjustment tax. It’s real name is a “destination-based cash flow tax”, but the colloquial term is border adjustment tax.

The border adjustment tax is, very basically, an import tax. Even better, it’s a consumption tax. The corporate tax is a tax on production.

All of our allies have a border adjustment tax. We don’t. We’ve been living on that unlevel playing field forever. Now that House Ways and Means introduced the idea of the US moving to one, our allies are screaming at how unfair it would be for us to have the same kind of import tax they do!

Go figure.

We can get into the pluses and minuses of a border adjustment tax a little later. But for now, here’s how the GOP plan was going to work.

Since the special interests refused to give up their special tax breaks, the GOP decided to leave them in.

Since the special interests want their cake and to eat it, too, they also got the corporate tax rate lowered. To somewhere around 15%.

Because of this, all the lost revenue due to the tax breaks was no longer made up for by the 39.1% tax rate. So House Ways and Means intended to make up the lost revenues with the Border Adjustment Tax.

Enter Trump.

Donald Trump was “ambivalent”, at best, about the Border Adjustment Tax. And now he has decided he is against it.

So bye-bye Border Adjustment Tax.


But…he is keeping the lower corporate tax rate AND all those special interest tax breaks. And that means, boys and girls, a gigantic spurt in national debt if the Trump way comes to pass.


This is a total cop-out. It is the coward’s way out, and every fiscal conservative should be vehemently opposed to this.

There are 2 sides to every equation, and you are addressing the revenue side of the debt equation. The spending side is at least as treacherous as the revenue side. We have a national debt in excess of $19 trillion. Congress, be they left or right, has shown they are unable to control spending. If the government stole all the wealth of the 400 riches Americans, they would only pay down the debt about 12%. The reality is there is a limit to how much you can tax, and the spending limit is well beyond the taxing limit.

That's what I've been saying all along, we are fucked. There is not enough money to pay for the debt that career politicians put on to this country.

Actually, there is enough money to pay down the debt. More than enough.

It's what I have tried to explain a zillion times. If you ban tax expenditures, you will have a trillion dollar surplus. You spend the surplus by using part to reduce tax rates (as Nunes is trying to do), and part to pay down the debt. Then once the debt is paid off, you lower tax rates even more.

You would also have the benefit of an economy which would boom on such a level playing field.

Well, you can't count on the federal government with all those career politicians to do the right thing. And this far as a surplus there is no such thing in the federal bureaucracy(except debt). And anyway would you trust the federal government with a surplus of the taxpayers money? Lol

 

[g5000]

As I have explained many times, every time you give a special interest a tax break, someone else has to make up the difference. This is achieved by raising tax rates on everyone. So even the lobby that got the tax break now has a higher tax rate, along with everyone else.

However, if we raised tax rates high enough to pay for the $1.4 trillion of them that are given out each year, the American people would revolt. So tax rates are raised to a barely tolerable level, and then the rest is borrowed.

And that is how we got to $19 trillion in debt and a 39.1% corporate tax rate.

As I have explained many times, if you get rid of all these government gifts to all these special interests, you could substantially lower tax rates. And you get the extra bonus of everyone being on a level playing field. Entities which earn identical incomes would pay identical taxes.

Instead, we have an insane system where entities which earn identical incomes pay radically different taxes.

Enter the House Ways and Means Committee, chaired by Kevin Brady. This committee came up with a plan to do just what I have been saying for years. They came up with a plan to lower the corporate tax rate substantially by getting rid of all those government giveaways.

Their original plan was simple. Get rid of all the special interest deductions, credits, and exemptions.

Guess what? Those special interests are so powerful that this turned out to be impossible. Our Congress is now completely owned, boys and girls, and it is long past time to wake the fuck up to this fact.

You simply must wake up. Anyone who defends $1.4 trillion of thievery is on the wrong side, and yet we are burdened with pseudocons who do just that. They defend deductions, credits, and exemptions which add up to $1.4 trillion like they are welfare queens.

They have been fed a lie that these tax expenditures mean they get to keep more of their own money. This is a giant lie. A YUGE lie.

As it happened, every time the House Ways and Means committee tried to take away all those special interest tax breaks, the special interests forced them back in. Which then forced the House Ways and Means to raise tax rates back to 39.1%.

Impasse.

So House Ways and Means came up with Plan B: The border adjustment tax. It’s real name is a “destination-based cash flow tax”, but the colloquial term is border adjustment tax.

The border adjustment tax is, very basically, an import tax. Even better, it’s a consumption tax. The corporate tax is a tax on production.

All of our allies have a border adjustment tax. We don’t. We’ve been living on that unlevel playing field forever. Now that House Ways and Means introduced the idea of the US moving to one, our allies are screaming at how unfair it would be for us to have the same kind of import tax they do!

Go figure.

We can get into the pluses and minuses of a border adjustment tax a little later. But for now, here’s how the GOP plan was going to work.

Since the special interests refused to give up their special tax breaks, the GOP decided to leave them in.

Since the special interests want their cake and to eat it, too, they also got the corporate tax rate lowered. To somewhere around 15%.

Because of this, all the lost revenue due to the tax breaks was no longer made up for by the 39.1% tax rate. So House Ways and Means intended to make up the lost revenues with the Border Adjustment Tax.

Enter Trump.

Donald Trump was “ambivalent”, at best, about the Border Adjustment Tax. And now he has decided he is against it.

So bye-bye Border Adjustment Tax.


But…he is keeping the lower corporate tax rate AND all those special interest tax breaks. And that means, boys and girls, a gigantic spurt in national debt if the Trump way comes to pass.


This is a total cop-out. It is the coward’s way out, and every fiscal conservative should be vehemently opposed to this.

There are 2 sides to every equation, and you are addressing the revenue side of the debt equation. The spending side is at least as treacherous as the revenue side. We have a national debt in excess of $19 trillion. Congress, be they left or right, has shown they are unable to control spending. If the government stole all the wealth of the 400 riches Americans, they would only pay down the debt about 12%. The reality is there is a limit to how much you can tax, and the spending limit is well beyond the taxing limit.

You don't understand.

Tax expenditures ARE spending!

That's why they are called tax expenditures.

They are the largest part of the budget. By far.

You see, after our government has spent all that money on roads and defense and puppies for hookers and Social Security and whatnot, it then spends an additional $1.4 trillion on tax expenditures.

So you go right ahead and cut spending for roads and defense and puppies for hookers, but you have barely scratched the surface. You haven't even touched the $1.4 trillion of tax expenditures.

How are those roads and tanks and puppies paid for? With taxes. The more you spend on roads and defense and puppies for hookers, the higher you have to raise tax rates.

Just so with tax expenditures. The more you spend on them, the higher you have to raise tax rates. This is the part which completely escapes the pseudocons.

 

[g5000]

As I have explained many times, every time you give a special interest a tax break, someone else has to make up the difference. This is achieved by raising tax rates on everyone. So even the lobby that got the tax break now has a higher tax rate, along with everyone else.

However, if we raised tax rates high enough to pay for the $1.4 trillion of them that are given out each year, the American people would revolt. So tax rates are raised to a barely tolerable level, and then the rest is borrowed.

And that is how we got to $19 trillion in debt and a 39.1% corporate tax rate.

As I have explained many times, if you get rid of all these government gifts to all these special interests, you could substantially lower tax rates. And you get the extra bonus of everyone being on a level playing field. Entities which earn identical incomes would pay identical taxes.

Instead, we have an insane system where entities which earn identical incomes pay radically different taxes.

Enter the House Ways and Means Committee, chaired by Kevin Brady. This committee came up with a plan to do just what I have been saying for years. They came up with a plan to lower the corporate tax rate substantially by getting rid of all those government giveaways.

Their original plan was simple. Get rid of all the special interest deductions, credits, and exemptions.

Guess what? Those special interests are so powerful that this turned out to be impossible. Our Congress is now completely owned, boys and girls, and it is long past time to wake the fuck up to this fact.

You simply must wake up. Anyone who defends $1.4 trillion of thievery is on the wrong side, and yet we are burdened with pseudocons who do just that. They defend deductions, credits, and exemptions which add up to $1.4 trillion.

They have been fed a lie that these tax expenditures mean they get to keep more of their own money. This is a giant lie. A YUGE lie.

As it happened, every time the House Ways and Means committee tried to take away all those special interest tax breaks, the special interests forced them back in. Which then forced the House Ways and Means to raise tax rates back to 39.1%.

Impasse.

So House Ways and Means came up with Plan B: The border adjustment tax. It’s real name is a “destination-based cash flow tax”, but the colloquial term is border adjustment tax.

The border adjustment tax is, very basically, an import tax. Even better, it’s a consumption tax. The corporate tax is a tax on production.

All of our allies have a border adjustment tax. We don’t. We’ve been living on that unlevel playing field forever. Now that House Ways and Means introduced the idea of the US moving to one, our allies are screaming at how unfair it would be for us to have the same kind of import tax they do!

Go figure.

We can get into the pluses and minuses of a border adjustment tax a little later. But for now, here’s how the GOP plan was going to work.

Since the special interests refused to give up their special tax breaks, the GOP decided to leave them in.

Since the special interests want their cake and to eat it, too, they also got the corporate tax rate lowered. To somewhere around 15%.

Because of this, all the lost revenue due to the tax breaks was no longer made up for by the 39.1% tax rate. So House Ways and Means intended to make up the lost revenues with the Border Adjustment Tax.

Enter Trump.

Donald Trump was “ambivalent”, at best, about the Border Adjustment Tax. And now he has decided he is against it.

So bye-bye Border Adjustment Tax.


But…he is keeping the lower corporate tax rate AND all those special interest tax breaks. And that means, boys and girls, a gigantic spurt in national debt if the Trump way comes to pass.


This is a total cop-out. It is the coward’s way out, and every fiscal conservative should be vehemently opposed to this.

An insanely high corporate tax rate that we happen to have now, along with the stupidity of capital gains tax makes for a weak economy… Fact

G lives in the classic liberal lala land where money is finite. If the gubmint don't get this $, then it has to get that $. They don't understand t hat taking a $ from an entity that does nothing but spend it, and giving it to entity t hat will grow it is a +. What generates more taxes, $1 or $5?

Soggy, you have always spoken from a place of deep and willful ignorance. You don't even realize how badly you are exposing your ignorance of this issue.

 

[DarkFury]

As I have explained many times, every time you give a special interest a tax break, someone else has to make up the difference. This is achieved by raising tax rates on everyone. So even the lobby that got the tax break now has a higher tax rate, along with everyone else.

However, if we raised tax rates high enough to pay for the $1.4 trillion of them that are given out each year, the American people would revolt. So tax rates are raised to a barely tolerable level, and then the rest is borrowed.

And that is how we got to $19 trillion in debt and a 39.1% corporate tax rate.

As I have explained many times, if you get rid of all these government gifts to all these special interests, you could substantially lower tax rates. And you get the extra bonus of everyone being on a level playing field. Entities which earn identical incomes would pay identical taxes.

Instead, we have an insane system where entities which earn identical incomes pay radically different taxes.

Enter the House Ways and Means Committee, chaired by Kevin Brady. This committee came up with a plan to do just what I have been saying for years. They came up with a plan to lower the corporate tax rate substantially by getting rid of all those government giveaways.

Their original plan was simple. Get rid of all the special interest deductions, credits, and exemptions.

Guess what? Those special interests are so powerful that this turned out to be impossible. Our Congress is now completely owned, boys and girls, and it is long past time to wake the fuck up to this fact.

You simply must wake up. Anyone who defends $1.4 trillion of thievery is on the wrong side, and yet we are burdened with pseudocons who do just that. They defend deductions, credits, and exemptions which add up to $1.4 trillion like they are welfare queens.

They have been fed a lie that these tax expenditures mean they get to keep more of their own money. This is a giant lie. A YUGE lie.

As it happened, every time the House Ways and Means committee tried to take away all those special interest tax breaks, the special interests forced them back in. Which then forced the House Ways and Means to raise tax rates back to 39.1%.

Impasse.

So House Ways and Means came up with Plan B: The border adjustment tax. It’s real name is a “destination-based cash flow tax”, but the colloquial term is border adjustment tax.

The border adjustment tax is, very basically, an import tax. Even better, it’s a consumption tax. The corporate tax is a tax on production.

All of our allies have a border adjustment tax. We don’t. We’ve been living on that unlevel playing field forever. Now that House Ways and Means introduced the idea of the US moving to one, our allies are screaming at how unfair it would be for us to have the same kind of import tax they do!

Go figure.

We can get into the pluses and minuses of a border adjustment tax a little later. But for now, here’s how the GOP plan was going to work.

Since the special interests refused to give up their special tax breaks, the GOP decided to leave them in.

Since the special interests want their cake and to eat it, too, they also got the corporate tax rate lowered. To somewhere around 15%.

Because of this, all the lost revenue due to the tax breaks was no longer made up for by the 39.1% tax rate. So House Ways and Means intended to make up the lost revenues with the Border Adjustment Tax.

Enter Trump.

Donald Trump was “ambivalent”, at best, about the Border Adjustment Tax. And now he has decided he is against it.

So bye-bye Border Adjustment Tax.


But…he is keeping the lower corporate tax rate AND all those special interest tax breaks. And that means, boys and girls, a gigantic spurt in national debt if the Trump way comes to pass.


This is a total cop-out. It is the coward’s way out, and every fiscal conservative should be vehemently opposed to this.

There are 2 sides to every equation, and you are addressing the revenue side of the debt equation. The spending side is at least as treacherous as the revenue side. We have a national debt in excess of $19 trillion. Congress, be they left or right, has shown they are unable to control spending. If the government stole all the wealth of the 400 riches Americans, they would only pay down the debt about 12%. The reality is there is a limit to how much you can tax, and the spending limit is well beyond the taxing limit.

You don't understand.

Tax expenditures ARE spending!

That's why they are called tax expenditures.

They are the largest part of the budget. By far.

You see, after our government has spent all that money on roads and defense and puppies for hookers and Social Security and whatnot, it then spends an additional $1.4 trillion on tax expenditures.

So you go right ahead and cut spending for roads and defense and puppies for hookers, but you have barely scratched the surface. You haven't even touched the $1.4 trillion of tax expenditures.

So you idiot want to spend 17 trillion to make 1,4 trillion?
No.