Zone1 Losing their religion: why US churches are on the decline

[Meriweather]

Honestly, I don't know what he believed. I know he was a very sick man, and that he felt remorse for what he did. Or at least he expressed remorse. Which is all that is required for Christian forgiveness.

It is hard to believe that you attended Catholic School one day, let alone twelve years. Do you recall the lessons of forgiveness, grace, and purification?

 

[Meriweather]

So assuming he was sincere for wanting forgiveness, does he deserve to get into heaven for accepting Jesus while Ann Frank burns in Hell for all eternity for not accepting Him? It doesn't matter what you did, I will forgive you if you massage my ego enough!

Forgiveness can often be the first step towards heaven, but remember the purification part. We are given grace to not only turn from sin, but to use it to purify ourselves and our existence so that we become a new person that shines through in everything we choose to do and who we are.

Do you believe Jeffrey Dahmer had the opportunity and the means to use the grace he was given to become pure in heart and soul? The Catholic faith is adamant that this is required and necessary to enter into the presence of God.

 

[Red Front]

Marism is an attempt to carry the message of Christ to help the poor, minus God.

We have seen how this works throughout history as Marxism and murdered hundreds of millions last century, and those who survive it endure horrible poverty and persecution

History laugh in your face and calls you a liar.

Why is it that you and self proclaimed Marxist groups follow a man steeped in systemic racism and anti-Semitism?

Karl Marx Was a Horrific Racist. Here Are the Quotes to Prove It

The evidence is clear: Karl Marx, the founder of communism and one of the most important socialists in history, was a terrible racist.

stoppingsocialism.com

You never heard such racist garbage from either Christ or Paul.
Here is a quote from your cult leader Marx

“The Jewish ****** Lassalle who, I’m glad to say, is leaving at the end of this week, has happily lost another 5,000 talers in an ill-judged speculation. The chap would sooner throw money down the drain than lend it to a ‘friend,’ even though his interest and capital were guaranteed. … It is now quite plain to me—as the shape of his head and the way his hair grows also testify—that he is descended from the negroes who accompanied Moses’

Sick.

That's just a bunch of silly capitalist rhetoric against Marxism. Capitalist colonialism and imperialism killed a lot more people than Marxism or Socialism. Many nations today thrive thanks to applying Socialist principles to their economies. So your point is moot when it depends so heavily on cheap cold war propaganda, ignoring the devastating consequences of capitalist neo-liberalism and imperialism. Emotionally charged death toll arguments against communism, don't strengthen your position as a capitalist or defender of capitalism, due to the mountain of dead, rotting corpses under capitalism's blood drenched, filthy feet. As an apologist for capitalism, you have no moral high ground upon which to stand and point your crooked feculent finger at communism or communists.

Ironically, from a Christian perspective, you have to deal with the fact that the first Jewish settlers in the land of Israel, in the early 1900s were Marxists and communists. They established the Kibutzim i.e. communes, and were instrumental in draining many of the swamps and wetlands in Israel, turning them into arabel land. Many of them died from malaria, in the effort to drain those swamps. The first two prime ministers of Israel were Marxists. Many members of the Israeli Knesset were Socialist - Marxists. So YHWH can use whomever he wants to use to accomplish His objectives, even Marxists.

What is sick is your idolatrous belief that YHWH became a man and died. Your attempt to kill YHWH God for your sins. That's definitely repulsive.

 

[Votto]

That's just a bunch of silly capitalist rhetoric against Marxism. Capitalist colonialism and imperialism killed a lot more people than Marxism or Socialism. Many nations today thrive thanks to applying Socialist principles to their economies. So your point is moot when it depends so heavily on cheap cold war propaganda, ignoring the devastating consequences of capitalist neo-liberalism and imperialism. Emotionally charged death toll arguments against communism, don't strengthen your position as a capitalist or defender of capitalism, due to the mountain of dead, rotting corpses under capitalism's blood drenched, filthy feet. As an apologist for capitalism, you have no moral high ground upon which to stand and point your crooked feculent finger at communism or communists.

Ironically, from a Christian perspective, you have to deal with the fact that the first Jewish settlers in the land of Israel, in the early 1900s were Marxists and communists. They established the Kibutzim i.e. communes, and were instrumental in draining many of the swamps and wetlands in Israel, turning them into arabel land. Many of them died from malaria, in the effort to drain those swamps. The first two prime ministers of Israel were Marxists. Many members of the Israeli Knesset were Socialist - Marxists. So YHWH can use whomever he wants to use to accomplish His objectives, even Marxists.

What is sick is your idolatrous belief that YHWH became a man and died. Your attempt to kill YHWH God for your sins. That's definitely repulsive.

I never mentioned Capitalism, you did

In fact, capitalists are no match for Leftists such as yourself as you have transformed pretty much every government on the face of the planet towards Marxism in some form or fashion. But to glibly ignore the crimes of Marxists, just as Stalin and Moa and Pol Pot as they have murdered hundreds of millions is mind numbingly frightening, but that is the price of joining a cult. As we speak, capitalists in America, like Bill Gates and George Soros, sit around telling us how wonderful the democrat party is and how we all need to surrender more and more of our power to the US government that has the blood of about 60 million plus unborn babies on their hands.

Speaking of which, Jim Jones is perhaps the best known cult leader of our time, and yes friends, he was a Marxist who felt the church was not woke enough, so he left to the jungles of Central America where he had his followers all drink cool aid and die.

No, my religion is not capitalism, but yours is Marxism.

Both Paul and Christ were moral giants compared to both Marx and his groupies and you.

In fact, I bet you think living in North Korea beats living anywhere in the world cuz Marxism is so wonderful.

 

[JoeB131]

Doesn't matter. God provided one, and ONLY one path to Himself. And it ain't through religion. It is through the born again relationship that He Himself set up for sinful man. And one sin is not worse than the other as far as He is concerned. They all lead to death and He'll without Christ's redemption.

That's not God..> Those are the voices in your head. They have medications for that now.

 

[JoeB131]

It is hard to believe that you attended Catholic School one day, let alone twelve years. Do you recall the lessons of forgiveness, grace, and purification?

What I remember is that we were told when we went to confessional and told the pervert priests all our dirty little secrets, that we'd be forgiven. Then I actually bothered to think about how absurd that was.

Forgiveness can often be the first step towards heaven, but remember the purification part. We are given grace to not only turn from sin, but to use it to purify ourselves and our existence so that we become a new person that shines through in everything we choose to do and who we are.

Uh-huh... still seems like a lot of groveling. So if Jeff Dahmner groveled enough, does he get forgiven for all those guys he ate?

Do you believe Jeffrey Dahmer had the opportunity and the means to use the grace he was given to become pure in heart and soul? The Catholic faith is adamant that this is required and necessary to enter into the presence of God.

Well, first, he didn't get baptized as a Catholic, it was some other flavor of Christianity. Trust me, you don't want me going down that road for even more merciless mockery.

Second, is there a time limit? Again, I am working on the assumption that his repentance was TRULY sincere. I guess he didn't have time to touch all the bases (whichever how many there actually are) because he got brained by a fellow inmate.

But let's work on the assumption that he did an adequate amount of Groveling and had plenty of time. Do you think he should be allowed to get into heaven after eating 17 people? I mean, I guess you can argue the cannibalism as a mitigating factor because it's less wasteful.. (SNARK).

My view is that if there IS an afterlife, there should be a judgement based on what kind of person you were. Not what church you went to or what meaningless ceremonies you engaged in. Were you a good person? Did you help people when you were alive. Was the world a better place or a worse place for you being in it.

Dahmner was clearly a bad person. He snuffed out 17 lives. He might well have been sick in the head, but at the end of the day, he killed people because of some weird sexual obsession. (There's actually a technical term for it called Vorephilia, and I can thank the internet for giving me information I'd rather not know).

 

[GMCGeneral]

That's not God..> Those are the voices in your head. They have medications for that now.

No, that IS the very nature of God. Read your Bible and you will see for yourself.

 

[Red Front]

I never mentioned Capitalism, you did

In fact, capitalists are no match for Leftists such as yourself as you have transformed pretty much every government on the face of the planet towards Marxism in some form or fashion. But to glibly ignore the crimes of Marxists, just as Stalin and Moa and Pol Pot as they have murdered hundreds of millions is mind numbingly frightening, but that is the price of joining a cult. As we speak, capitalists in America, like Bill Gates and George Soros, sit around telling us how wonderful the democrat party is and how we all need to surrender more and more of our power to the US government that has the blood of about 60 million plus unborn babies on their hands.

Speaking of which, Jim Jones is perhaps the best known cult leader of our time, and yes friends, he was a Marxist who felt the church was not woke enough, so he left to the jungles of Central America where he had his followers all drink cool aid and die.

No, my religion is not capitalism, but yours is Marxism.

Both Paul and Christ were moral giants compared to both Marx and his groupies and you.

In fact, I bet you think living in North Korea beats living anywhere in the world cuz Marxism is so wonderful.

For those who want a detailed communist refutation of all of Votto's cold war propaganda, read the following books:

Khrushchev Lied (Grover Furr) (z-lib.org).pdf

drive.google.com

Stalin Waiting for ... the Truth (Grover Furr) (z-lib.org).pdf

drive.google.com

I couldn't find the book titled "Blood Lies" in PDF anywhere, but you can get it in paperback. It's worth it.

More books are attached to this post in PDF format.

​

 

[Red Front]

How America and China supported Pol Pot:

​

Just as there are now and have been in the past, psychopathic capitalists and dictators, that doesn't imply that capitalism "doesn't work" or should be discarded. Correct? Do you throw away capitalism, because of its own crimes against humanity? Does that by default render capitalism an ineffective system of production? As a communist, I don't resort to cheap, death toll rhetoric, because both the capitalists and communists are guilty of killing people, so there's no moral high ground upon which to stand and point fingers at each other when it comes to violence. Class warfare is violent.

 

[Meriweather]

What I remember is that we were told when we went to confessional and told the pervert priests all our dirty little secrets, that we'd be forgiven. Then I actually bothered to think about how absurd that was.

Nothing ever clicked for you, did it. I'm sorry about that. One of the first things I learned was, "God made me to know Him, love Him, and serve Him...and to be happy with Him."

I was a little kid. Wasn't really possible for me to know Him. I did my best to love Him, but he was at the end of the list of those I loved. That left me with serving Him. Wasn't always perfect doing that, but there was reconciliation/confession with the opportunity to be forgiven and to receive grace to improve. Improvement was an uphill climb--but that was the tangible part of the relationship I had with God as a little kid. There was nothing absurd about that and I continued work with knowing and loving.

 

[Meriweather]

Uh-huh... still seems like a lot of groveling. So if Jeff Dahmner groveled enough, does he get forgiven for all those guys he ate?

Groveling? Hardly. It was second chance after second chance, those endless refills of grace and going back to try again.

What Jeffrey Dahmer had was his first chance at forgiveness, the opportunity to try again...except...he was in prison with very few choices and practically no opportunity in this life.

In Catholic thought, this leaves the next life to complete purification when a person is sincerely sorry, and has turned totally towards God. Purgatory is that place where any needed purification can take place--the purification needed to enable one to stand in the presence of God.

 

[Meriweather]

Well, first, he didn't get baptized as a Catholic, it was some other flavor of Christianity. Trust me, you don't want me going down that road for even more merciless mockery.

Merciless? 'Feeble' or 'frail' are the adjectives that come to mine when you attempt moc--no, that's not the word, either. "Ragging" might be overstating it still, but it is a bit closer.

 

[Meriweather]

Second, is there a time limit? Again, I am working on the assumption that his repentance was TRULY sincere. I guess he didn't have time to touch all the bases (whichever how many there actually are) because he got brained by a fellow inmate.

I don't see God as a genii who with the blink of an eye makes a change. He takes His time. Think of how long He took to form the earth. There is also the matter of free will, and Mr. Dahmer might find it an effort to resist temptation.

One of the things we were taught in Catholic school is that what makes repeating a sin almost a given is that the sin is always so much easier to commit the second time around--and from then on, it is barely given a thought, it is something natural, and not a sin at all. How easy it is to become immune to sin. That is another benefit to confession.

 

[Meriweather]

My view is that if there IS an afterlife, there should be a judgement based on what kind of person you were. Not what church you went to or what meaningless ceremonies you engaged in. Were you a good person? Did you help people when you were alive. Was the world a better place or a worse place for you being in it.

I think of this life as the opportunity to explore. Would we be happier in our next life being a servant of God, or would we rather have nothing to do with Him. In other words, take you as an example. You are a very good person in this life, but you don't want anything to do with God, so your happiness clearly lies in being separated from Him.

 

[Meriweather]

Dahmner was clearly a bad person. He snuffed out 17 lives. He might well have been sick in the head, but at the end of the day, he killed people because of some weird sexual obsession.

Mr. Dahmer said what he wanted was someone he could completely control. I found that interesting because clearly, he could not control himself. What a forlorn irony.

 

[JoeB131]

No, that IS the very nature of God. Read your Bible and you will see for yourself.

I have read the bible, that's why I'm an atheist. I refuse to believe the universe is so badly designed the God of the Hebrews is in charge.

 

[JoeB131]

Nothing ever clicked for you, did it. I'm sorry about that. One of the first things I learned was, "God made me to know Him, love Him, and serve Him...and to be happy with Him."

One of the first things I learned was the nuns and priests were psychopaths... and their god reflected that.

Do I need to go over how Sr. Mary Butch rationalized the drowning of all babies during the flood? Because that one never got old. Or how they said that God sank the Titanic because someone said God himself couldn't sink this ship.

I was a little kid. Wasn't really possible for me to know Him. I did my best to love Him, but he was at the end of the list of those I loved. That left me with serving Him. Wasn't always perfect doing that, but there was reconciliation/confession with the opportunity to be forgiven and to receive grace to improve. Improvement was an uphill climb--but that was the tangible part of the relationship I had with God as a little kid. There was nothing absurd about that and I continued work with knowing and loving.

The problem here is that the love of your sky pixie is a little one sided. You grovel all day, give him money, spend hours on the internet rationalizing religion to people who've rejected it... and what does he do for you? Oh, nothing, he's too busy "not existing".

Groveling? Hardly. It was second chance after second chance, those endless refills of grace and going back to try again.

Yes, the church is great at guilting you for feeling bad about things you should never feel bad about.

What Jeffrey Dahmer had was his first chance at forgiveness, the opportunity to try again...except...he was in prison with very few choices and practically no opportunity in this life.

Oh, I agree, they ALL find Jesus in Prison. Or Mohammed. Or C'Thulhu. Whatever. But wasn't the topic of discussion. If Chef Jeff was truly sincere in his repentance, he gets into heaven. That's messed up, yo!

Here's a fun cartoon that shows the absolute absurdity of Christian Salvation if we applied it to our criminal law. I'm betting you won't watch it all the way through.

In Catholic thought, this leaves the next life to complete purification when a person is sincerely sorry, and has turned totally towards God. Purgatory is that place where any needed purification can take place--the purification needed to enable one to stand in the presence of God.

But, um, Purgatory appears nowhere in the Bible and it didn't really get made up by the Catholic Church until the Middle Ages. You know, when the Church was selling indulgences...

I remember the first time I was introduced to the concept of Purgatory at my grandpa's funeral. How we had to pray really hard to make sure Grandpa wasn't in Purgatory and could get to heaven at some point. Actually, sounds like another scam to keep the rubes grovelling, no wonder the Catholics made it up. Just like they made up Limbo out of whole cloth (nowhere in the Bible, either ) to terrify parents into getting their babies dipped as soon as possible. Got to keep shaking down those rubes for money!

Merciless? 'Feeble' or 'frail' are the adjectives that come to mine when you attempt moc--no, that's not the word, either. "Ragging" might be overstating it still, but it is a bit closer.

Yes, that's why you spent six posts responding to me. Because I reject your backwards superstitions.

I don't see God as a genii who with the blink of an eye makes a change. He takes His time. Think of how long He took to form the earth. There is also the matter of free will, and Mr. Dahmer might find it an effort to resist temptation.

Honestly, your God comes off more like a Batman Villain. He gives people impossible choices and then screws them for making the wrong one.

One of the things we were taught in Catholic school is that what makes repeating a sin almost a given is that the sin is always so much easier to commit the second time around--and from then on, it is barely given a thought, it is something natural, and not a sin at all. How easy it is to become immune to sin. That is another benefit to confession.

Keeping people guilt ridden and dependent? Um, yeah, Not sure why you think that's a good thing. Actually, what I thought was kind of messed up (and I so want to drop an F-bomb, but Zone 1) was that merely THINKING about doing something sinful was as bad as doing a sin. You finally notice the icky girls have breasts and nice tight asses? SINNER! Want to punch out the bully who harrasses you, even though you never act on it. SINNER!!!

I rejected Catholicism after my mom died, but it took YEARS to undo all the psychological damage Catholicism inflicted.

I think of this life as the opportunity to explore. Would we be happier in our next life being a servant of God, or would we rather have nothing to do with Him. In other words, take you as an example. You are a very good person in this life, but you don't want anything to do with God, so your happiness clearly lies in being separated from Him.

My happiness is in not groveling in front of imaginary sky pixies and their stuck up clergy, yeah. If you clowns kept your bronze age superstitions in your churches, I really wouldn't have a problem with you. BUt you keep trying to impose yourselves on the rest of us.

Mr. Dahmer said what he wanted was someone he could completely control. I found that interesting because clearly, he could not control himself. What a forlorn irony.

Yes, why did God make him that way? Oh, wait, no, you don't have an answer for that one.

 

[Meriweather]

Yes, that's why you spent six posts responding to me.

Actually, I was under the weather and bored. Feeling better today, so just this one post.

 

[GMCGeneral]

I have read the bible, that's why I'm an atheist. I refuse to believe the universe is so badly designed the God of the Hebrews is in charge.

That's your problem. Psalm 14:2 says the fool in his heart says there is no God. You REFUSE God now you will pay for your unbelief. That is God's righteous and Holy justice.

 

[ding]

One of the first things I learned was the nuns and priests were psychopaths... and their god reflected that.

Do I need to go over how Sr. Mary Butch rationalized the drowning of all babies during the flood? Because that one never got old. Or how they said that God sank the Titanic because someone said God himself couldn't sink this ship.



The problem here is that the love of your sky pixie is a little one sided. You grovel all day, give him money, spend hours on the internet rationalizing religion to people who've rejected it... and what does he do for you? Oh, nothing, he's too busy "not existing".



Yes, the church is great at guilting you for feeling bad about things you should never feel bad about.



Oh, I agree, they ALL find Jesus in Prison. Or Mohammed. Or C'Thulhu. Whatever. But wasn't the topic of discussion. If Chef Jeff was truly sincere in his repentance, he gets into heaven. That's messed up, yo!

Here's a fun cartoon that shows the absolute absurdity of Christian Salvation if we applied it to our criminal law. I'm betting you won't watch it all the way through.






But, um, Purgatory appears nowhere in the Bible and it didn't really get made up by the Catholic Church until the Middle Ages. You know, when the Church was selling indulgences...

I remember the first time I was introduced to the concept of Purgatory at my grandpa's funeral. How we had to pray really hard to make sure Grandpa wasn't in Purgatory and could get to heaven at some point. Actually, sounds like another scam to keep the rubes grovelling, no wonder the Catholics made it up. Just like they made up Limbo out of whole cloth (nowhere in the Bible, either ) to terrify parents into getting their babies dipped as soon as possible. Got to keep shaking down those rubes for money!



Yes, that's why you spent six posts responding to me. Because I reject your backwards superstitions.



Honestly, your God comes off more like a Batman Villain. He gives people impossible choices and then screws them for making the wrong one.



Keeping people guilt ridden and dependent? Um, yeah, Not sure why you think that's a good thing. Actually, what I thought was kind of messed up (and I so want to drop an F-bomb, but Zone 1) was that merely THINKING about doing something sinful was as bad as doing a sin. You finally notice the icky girls have breasts and nice tight asses? SINNER! Want to punch out the bully who harrasses you, even though you never act on it. SINNER!!!

I rejected Catholicism after my mom died, but it took YEARS to undo all the psychological damage Catholicism inflicted.



My happiness is in not groveling in front of imaginary sky pixies and their stuck up clergy, yeah. If you clowns kept your bronze age superstitions in your churches, I really wouldn't have a problem with you. BUt you keep trying to impose yourselves on the rest of us.


Yes, why did God make him that way? Oh, wait, no, you don't have an answer for that one.

Good thing you aren't bitter or anything.