Liz Warren's "Accountable Capitalism Act"

[Toro]

The cut was signed into law by Big Ears. The Rs and Ds worked together to limit SS benefits and BO signed it.

You haven't proved it.

Can you link it?

All the links you posted said that Obama had planned to cut SS, and nothing is showing up on Google.

not sure this is proof


Reality Check: Obama Cuts Social Security and Medicare by Much More Than the GOP - The Atlantic

You didn't read your own link. From the headline

Obama plans to cut​

What he proposed didn't happen.

Barack Obama Once Proposed Cutting Social Security. Here’s What Changed His Mind. | HuffPost
Obama Wanted to Cut Social Security. Then Bernie Sanders Happened.

 

[Mac1958]

The Democrats don't understand the difference between MORE regulation and BETTER regulation. I'm by no means saying more is better.

That's why I use the term "efficient". There are still LARGE holes, and there is still wasteful regulation. Since the two parties are unwilling to work together to address that, dangers remain.
.

We have gotten to the point where incremental regulations are slowing growth.

Trump is a douche, but the single best thing he has done IMO is to require two regulations to be removed for every one that goes on the books. That's not the most efficient way to construct a regulatory regime, but the direction is correct.

To me the issue is not the number of the regulations, but the nature and scope of each individual regulation. So I'm not real fond of that two-for-one thing. Two whats for one what? What is the actual net trade-off here?

And this may be heretical, but growth is not the only priority for me, but it's also the nature of the growth. The Meltdown was the perfect example. Bush was so proud to crow about the real estate market, until many of the very drivers of the "growth" turned out to be essentially fraudulent due to a financial industry run amok due to a lack of regs.

Look at our "growth" right now. It's certainly no coincidence that our deficit figures are exploding. We won't know the actual net gain here for a while.

So, at what net cost is growth? If it's based on the smoke & mirrors often brought about by deregulation, hell, I'll vote for slower, more sustainable growth.
.

 

[gipper]

The cut was signed into law by Big Ears. The Rs and Ds worked together to limit SS benefits and BO signed it.

You haven't proved it.

Can you link it?

All the links you posted said that Obama had planned to cut SS, and nothing is showing up on Google.

not sure this is proof


Reality Check: Obama Cuts Social Security and Medicare by Much More Than the GOP - The Atlantic

You didn't read your own link. From the headline

Obama plans to cut​

What he proposed didn't happen.

Barack Obama Once Proposed Cutting Social Security. Here’s What Changed His Mind. | HuffPost
Obama Wanted to Cut Social Security. Then Bernie Sanders Happened.

File and suspend was ended by BO. Do you know what that means?

 

[gipper]

The cut was signed into law by Big Ears. The Rs and Ds worked together to limit SS benefits and BO signed it.

You haven't proved it.

Can you link it?

All the links you posted said that Obama had planned to cut SS, and nothing is showing up on Google.

not sure this is proof


Reality Check: Obama Cuts Social Security and Medicare by Much More Than the GOP - The Atlantic

You didn't read your own link. From the headline

Obama plans to cut​

What he proposed didn't happen.

Barack Obama Once Proposed Cutting Social Security. Here’s What Changed His Mind. | HuffPost
Obama Wanted to Cut Social Security. Then Bernie Sanders Happened.

File and suspend was ended by BO. Do you know what that means?

In addition, Americans used to be able to take the SS benefit of their spouse and suspend theirs. BO ended that.

 

[Weatherman2020]

[
Well yes, I'm a partner in a firm now, have +/- 95 business clients, and have written three books and +/- 30 magazine articles on the topic.

My guess is you're just spouting off talk radio talking points. "We can't even call it capitalism". Silly, shallow hyperbole. I very much doubt you understand the details of the Meltdown, outside of "it was all the Democrats' fault".

Maybe you should try this crap on someone else.
.

Not crapping on anyone, just calling you out for your "efficient regulation" B.S. If you are in business you know the huge amount of regulation already in place, much of it ineffective, and inefficient which makes business difficult, cumbersome, and more costly than it should be.

More government regulation as you want is NOT the answer. BTW, I don't listen to much talk radio, nor watch Fox News, so don't get many talking points. I do have thirty five years experience running companies though.

The Democrats don't understand the difference between MORE regulation and BETTER regulation. I'm by no means saying more is better.

That's why I use the term "efficient". There are still LARGE holes, and there is still wasteful regulation. Since the two parties are unwilling to work together to address that, dangers remain.
.

The key word you keep avoiding in my rebuttals is ACCOUNTABLE. She put that word in the bill name because THERE IS NO ACCOUNTABILITY BY THE GOVERNMENT.

 

[gipper]

The cut was signed into law by Big Ears. The Rs and Ds worked together to limit SS benefits and BO signed it.

You haven't proved it.

Can you link it?

All the links you posted said that Obama had planned to cut SS, and nothing is showing up on Google.

not sure this is proof


Reality Check: Obama Cuts Social Security and Medicare by Much More Than the GOP - The Atlantic

You didn't read your own link. From the headline

Obama plans to cut​

What he proposed didn't happen.

Barack Obama Once Proposed Cutting Social Security. Here’s What Changed His Mind. | HuffPost
Obama Wanted to Cut Social Security. Then Bernie Sanders Happened.

The cut was signed into law by Big Ears. The Rs and Ds worked together to limit SS benefits and BO signed it.

You haven't proved it.

Can you link it?

All the links you posted said that Obama had planned to cut SS, and nothing is showing up on Google.

not sure this is proof


Reality Check: Obama Cuts Social Security and Medicare by Much More Than the GOP - The Atlantic

You didn't read your own link. From the headline

Obama plans to cut​

What he proposed didn't happen.

Barack Obama Once Proposed Cutting Social Security. Here’s What Changed His Mind. | HuffPost
Obama Wanted to Cut Social Security. Then Bernie Sanders Happened.

This is a perfect example of how the media operates. Most Americans have no idea BO cut SS benefits. Why? Because they were never told by the media.

Now...if Trump did this, you know damn well the DNCMSM would crucify him with the old petard that Rs want the elderly to stave.

Many think the cut in benefits was warranted and maybe so, but the impact is STILL a cut in benefits. No R POTUS could ever cut SS, but a D POTUS can.

 

[Toro]

File and suspend was ended by BO. Do you know what that means?

Yes, but that's irrelevant to what you posted in your links because what Obama proposed was to change the way inflation is measured, not to close a loophole that allowed to compound benefits at a faster rate than everyone else because of their marital and working status.

 

[gipper]

File and suspend was ended by BO. Do you know what that means?

Yes, but that's irrelevant to what you posted in your links because what Obama proposed was to change the way inflation is measured, not to close a loophole that allowed to compound benefits at a faster rate than everyone else because of their marital and working status.

No...your post is irrelevant.

BO signed the law. By doing so, he cut SS benefits.

 

[Toro]

This is a perfect example of how the media operates. Most Americans have no idea BO cut SS benefits. Why? Because they were never told by the media.

Now...if Trump did this, you know damn well the DNCMSM would crucify him with the old petard that Rs want the elderly to stave.

Many think the cut in benefits was warranted and maybe so, but the impact is STILL a cut in benefits. No R POTUS could ever cut SS, but a D POTUS can.

I'm not going to argue that the media was friendlier to Obama than it is to Trump.

What I'm arguing is that you posted links as prima facie truth which weren't correct. You and Jon posted links about Obama's proposals as truth. But those proposals never occurred.

 

[gipper]

This is a perfect example of how the media operates. Most Americans have no idea BO cut SS benefits. Why? Because they were never told by the media.

Now...if Trump did this, you know damn well the DNCMSM would crucify him with the old petard that Rs want the elderly to stave.

Many think the cut in benefits was warranted and maybe so, but the impact is STILL a cut in benefits. No R POTUS could ever cut SS, but a D POTUS can.

I'm not going to argue that the media was friendlier to Obama than it is to Trump.

What I'm arguing is that you posted links as prima facie truth which weren't correct. You and Jon posted links about Obama's proposals as truth. But those proposals never occurred.

Silly.

Do you deny BO signed the law that cut SS benefits?

 

[Toro]

No...your post is irrelevant.

BO signed the law. By doing so, he cut SS benefits.

Except that's NOT what you offered as evidence.

You are baiting and switching.

What you linked was a budgetary proposal that would have changed the definition of inflation that would have chopped hundreds of billions of dollars off SS, and would have affected every SS recipient. Instead what happened was that Obama ended file and suspend that effected few people and saved fraction of the original amount.

 

[Toro]

Do you deny BO signed the law that cut SS benefits?

No. I'm calling you out for using false evidence to bolster your argument.

 

[Toro]

To me the issue is not the number of the regulations, but the nature and scope of each individual regulation. So I'm not real fond of that two-for-one thing. Two whats for one what? What is the actual net trade-off here?

JP Morgan did a study a few years ago that concluded it is now harder to start a business in America than it is in France.

France.

They concluded that America now ranks in the lower half of the OECD in the ease of starting a business.

That's not entirely government's fault. Much is also due to the licensing and self-regulations of industry. The example they used was that it now takes three certifications and regulatory approvals to start a nail care business in the state of Georgia.

But government regulation of business is certainly a big part of it.

Business formation has been anemic compared to past decades.

 

[gipper]

Do you deny BO signed the law that cut SS benefits?

No. I'm calling you out for using false evidence to bolster your argument.

Good thing we have you here as our very own Forum Watchdog.

 

[Toro]

Good thing we have you here as our very own Forum Watchdog.

Just demonstrating that most of the stuff posted on this board is biased partisan nonsense.

Thanks for complying.

 

[gipper]

Good thing we have you here as our very own Forum Watchdog.

Just demonstrating that most of the stuff posted on this board is biased partisan nonsense.

Thanks for complying.

But you failed to prove that. I clearly posted that BO cut SS. You can have your fun arguing nonsense, but no one will think you better for it.

 

[Weatherman2020]

The cut was signed into law by Big Ears. The Rs and Ds worked together to limit SS benefits and BO signed it.

You haven't proved it.

Can you link it?

All the links you posted said that Obama had planned to cut SS, and nothing is showing up on Google.

not sure this is proof


Reality Check: Obama Cuts Social Security and Medicare by Much More Than the GOP - The Atlantic

You didn't read your own link. From the headline

Obama plans to cut​

What he proposed didn't happen.

Barack Obama Once Proposed Cutting Social Security. Here’s What Changed His Mind. | HuffPost
Obama Wanted to Cut Social Security. Then Bernie Sanders Happened.

The cut was signed into law by Big Ears. The Rs and Ds worked together to limit SS benefits and BO signed it.

You haven't proved it.

Can you link it?

All the links you posted said that Obama had planned to cut SS, and nothing is showing up on Google.

not sure this is proof


Reality Check: Obama Cuts Social Security and Medicare by Much More Than the GOP - The Atlantic

You didn't read your own link. From the headline

Obama plans to cut​

What he proposed didn't happen.

Barack Obama Once Proposed Cutting Social Security. Here’s What Changed His Mind. | HuffPost
Obama Wanted to Cut Social Security. Then Bernie Sanders Happened.

This is a perfect example of how the media operates. Most Americans have no idea BO cut SS benefits. Why? Because they were never told by the media.

Now...if Trump did this, you know damn well the DNCMSM would crucify him with the old petard that Rs want the elderly to stave.

Many think the cut in benefits was warranted and maybe so, but the impact is STILL a cut in benefits. No R POTUS could ever cut SS, but a D POTUS can.

Plus if Trump did it we’d have 7/24 coverage of a 96 year old vet having a hard time over it.

 

[Toro]

But you failed to prove that. I clearly posted that BO cut SS. You can have your fun arguing nonsense, but no one will think you better for it.

lol

No you didn't.

You posted links to things that never happened.

Awesome debating skills, dude.

 

[Tehon]

The point you seem reluctant to admit is that capital couldn't have brought us into the 21st century without labor. Human labor is the only way to improve upon nature. Capital is merely a facilitator.

No, I know what you are saying. And I don't disagree that the labor came before capital. As I said earlier in this thread, capital is merely labor in another form. Capital can best be thought of as the accumulation of past labor and knowledge today in a permanent or financial form.

But your argument is still false. Labor cannot replicate what capital offers in today's economy. Therefore, capital is a necessary condition to improve mankind's lot. It is due to investment that we become more efficient and productive, and thus have higher living standards.

If you are looking at the world in a Marxist context, you are looking at the world in a 19th century context.

I never claimed that labor replicated what capital does in a capitalist system. That is your straw man. I made a simple statement that it is only by the physical act of manipulating nature that man improved upon it. That is a simple fact that exists on its own, it does not require a capital investment.

Within the capitalist system, capital sets labor in motion and does all those wonderful things that you admire so much.

As I said earlier in this thread, capital is merely labor in another form. Capital can best be thought of as the accumulation of past labor and knowledge today in a permanent or financial form.

This is true, even from the Marxist perspective.

"In bourgeois society, therefore, the past dominates the present; in Communist society, the present dominates the past. In bourgeois society capital is independent and has individuality, while the living person is dependent and has no individuality."
Marx & Engels, Communist Manifesto (1848)

 

[edthecynic]

The cut was signed into law by Big Ears. The Rs and Ds worked together to limit SS benefits and BO signed it.

You haven't proved it.

Can you link it?

All the links you posted said that Obama had planned to cut SS, and nothing is showing up on Google.

This cut to SS is well known to those of us paying attention.

File and suspend Social Security loophole closing fast

Your own link calls it a loophole, which was closed because the rich were abusing it.