Lileks on Pope Benedict

Discussion in 'Religion and Ethics' started by theim, Apr 19, 2005.

  1. theim
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    theim Senior Member

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    had me laughing..

     
  2. Annie
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    Annie Diamond Member

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    Thanks for the opening. At school today thanks to whoever posted the 'white smoke,' I turned on the tv with the students. Acting as vice-principal today, I let all the teachers know that it was on and a pope was selected.

    The older kids chose to eat lunch in their rooms, so they could keep watching until the Pope made his appearance. Lucky me, I too got to eat with the kids and watch. The other teachers were in the lounge, with a television on. The Pastor chose to watch with them.

    Second hand info but I'm sure pretty close, the pastor was opining that whomever was chosen, had to be better than JPII. He brought up Ratzinger, but was sure that could NEVER happen. Many of you might love this pastor, until a year ago, there was no crucifix in this church, (in order for him to get a $100k donation the parishioner insisted on a crucifix. It's of the 'Risen Christ' suspended in front of a cross.) There are no statues and the communion is kept outside of the church sanctuary. Stations are hung only during lent. I'd say that it's a Catholic version of Protestant, but that would be an insult to the Protestants.

    Needless to say, he was furious at the selection. He was joined by the 2nd grade teacher, an ex-nun and the 4th grade teacher who is not Catholic.

    I must admit to being confused by those that want to be 'Catholic' but don't want to follow the doctrine-rather would prefer to choose their own. I might be wrong here, but isn't what the Reformation and the following schisms within the Protestant umbrella all about? In the US, no one is forced to belong to a particular religion or any at all.
     
  3. freeandfun1
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    freeandfun1 VIP Member

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    I've been reading a lot about catholocism lately and from what I gather kat, there are a lot of people (catholics) that have broken away from the church. But all of them (from what I read) want to take the church back. Even a lot of protestants believe the catholic church is the first and rightful church, but that it has been taken over by those that have lost the meaning of the church. those that would rather participate in ceremonies instead of spreading the word as was the original mission of the apostles that started the church. so although they don't have to belong, maybe they feel that they would like to see the church restored to its original glory as the keeper of the word.

    Just a thought from a non-catholic that also believes the founding fathers of the catholic church would not be pleased with the catholic church today.

    (for the record, even I believe that the catholic church - in its original format, was/is the keeper of God's word and his direct agent on earth).
     
  4. Bonnie
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    Bonnie Senior Member

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    Well those same reformers would also like Gay marriage, women priests, abortion to be okayed by the church, and so on. In order to do that we need to change Christs words and the Gospels. The Founding Fathers were democratic as they should be, the church is not a democracy it is supposed to be a rock in a changing world, It's not supposed change it's principals to suit decling morality, and pride. Pope John Paul and this new Pope Benedict would have made the St Peter the founder of the Catholic church very proud as they were the ones who actually brought the church back to it's original teachings and tennants.
     
  5. freeandfun1
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    freeandfun1 VIP Member

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    I think you misunderstood. I meant the founding fathers of the Catholic Church. Not of America. The founding fathers of the Catholic Church were not democratic. And yes, Peter was the ROCK on which the church was built.

    I know that all protestant religions have their roots in the catholic church. I also believe that one day, all the protestant faiths will once again turn to their roots, but under a reformed church. I believe from the scriptures, that there will once again be 7 churches that spread the word of God. I believe at some point that all the different Christian (not Islamic, Buddhist, etc.) faiths will again come together and return to the roots established by the early apostles.

    I don't want my point to be misunderstood. I am NOT blasting the catholic church. But I do believe there are many catholics that are asking themselves, "have I left the Catholic Church, or has the Catholic Church left me?" Their points being that so many (maybe not the Pope) want to loosen the rules and have gotten away from the original teachings and intentions of the church.

    The Church was NEVER meant to become royalty. It was never meant to become a symbolic institution. It was meant to be a teacher. A sower of the seeds of Christianity.

    And I did not say that the founding fathers of the Church would not be proud of JPII, etc. I said they would not be proud of the Church as a whole. But that is just my humble opinion.
     
  6. Bonnie
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    Bonnie Senior Member

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    Okay if that's true, than the translation to that is the church won't bend to my liking and allow me to do what I want so Ill leave it and find one that says I can do what I want. Loosen the rules?? Meaning change Christs teachings to suit the new morality? Well then maybe they should move on?

    The church is not royalty but it's not a democracy either. The gospels are the gospels they don't change. If you want to disagree that the church is misinterpretating the gospels then you are certainly entitled to do that, and I respect that, however when people proclaim to be Catholic they accept the churches doctrine for what it is, not change it to suit their liking. The whole purpose of the church like you said is to teach Christs words, what good does it do to teach the wrong tennents just to make people feel better, or tell them what they want to thear?? Makes no sense?

    We expect our leaders to stick to their words and their principals right? It's even more important for religious leaders who are responsible for representing Christ on earth to do the same even in the face of criticism.

    :beer:
     
  7. Avatar4321
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    Avatar4321 Diamond Member Gold Supporting Member

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    I think that is what Christ says about the matter. I'm not sure people think about it that much.
     
  8. ScreamingEagle
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    ScreamingEagle Gold Member

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    There are quite a few Catholics (especially in Europe and America) who want to "reform" the Catholic Church to accomodate their progressive beliefs. One of the loudest is Andrew Sullivan, a gay man who thinks the Catholic Church needs to change to accomodate him and his personal view on such matters as gay marriage. How arrogant is that?

    Sullivan, like many other reformers, is terribly upset that a conservative Pope was elected as there obviously will be very little room for progressive dissent. This radical is attacking the traditional values of the Church simply because he does not agree with them. IMO if he doesn't like it, he needs to simply find another church. Here's some of his screeching:

    http://www.qando.net/details.aspx?Entry=1625
     
  9. Bonnie
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    Bonnie Senior Member

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    What a sad and arrogant person!
     
  10. freeandfun1
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    freeandfun1 VIP Member

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    Bonnie,

    by your reply, I still think you are missing my points.

    Christ told the Apostles when they went to preach, don't take anything with you (food, blankets, money, etc.) as everything would be provided by the Holy Spirit (paraphrasing). The Catholic Church has become one of the wealthiest (assets not cash) entities on earth. I don't think Christ would be too happy with that. The people I am talking about that are asking if the church has left them, are those that think the church is becoming too liberal. Not the ones that don't think it is liberal enough. The ones that think the church has become a corporate entity, not an entity teaching the message of Christ.

    I am NOT AT ALL suggesting the catholic church should bend to those that want it to become more liberal. But I am suggesting there are many that see the catholic church (at least large parts of it) as being corrupt and not what it was intended to be. That it (the church) as a whole, is not keeping/following the tenants of which it was founded upon by the Peter and the apostles.

    Perhaps I am not articulating myself well enough. If not, sorry.
     

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