Life as the Palestinian's know it

[Phoenall]

Face it Billy boy, you've been caught lying again.

You lied about the tunnels going into Israel and you're lying about this fantasy you have about being an electrical engineer.

My college room mate for a little over 12 years earned his PHD in electrical engineering. You are definitely NOT electrical engineer material.

Just like you don't know a thing about life as an Arab Muslim in Israel and yet your going on about that as well.

No credibility at all at this point Billy. None at all.

So where were we ;--)

Oh yeah, what have the Gazans brought on themselves

The Gazans have a choice, they can live in their own filth, or they can learn to live like civilized human beings. Its their choice

A PHD in electrical engineering? That means he's not good enough to get a job as an EE, so his plan B is to teach it.

If you have this friend, then why don't you get the answer to my question? Because if you can't, you shouldn't be on this train.

As for the tunnels, the UN says they go to Egypt, not Israel. And none of you have provided any evidence that they do.

Gazans did not bring it on themselves. Every time they try a civilized solution, Israel makes up some reason to attack them.

You don't need a PHD to teach a subject, but you do if you want to use the term engineer as a letterhead. Just as you need to have an M.D. to practise medicine, but can treat minor injuries without one. I can elevate, dress and clean a wound but I cant prescribe medication.
I worked towards a PHD but found it interfered with my social life so gave up training and became a drinker instead.
Just because the US state you work in does this it does not mean that the rest of the world does. So your question only applies to your small part of the whole world.

Get it right the report that you found contained one small mention of the tunnels prior to 2010 going to Egypt does not prove that the thousands of other UN reports regarding the tunnels going to Israel do not exist. Climb down of your high horse and admit that you made a mistake.

Can you show how over 2000 illegal rockets fired as Israeli children can be considered a civilised solution, how illegally kidnapping an Israeli soldier and denying him his basic rights under International law is a civilised solution. In fact can you find one civilised solution the Palestinians have tried that did not involve violence on their part that has been tried ?

 

[ForeverYoung436]

Face it Billy boy, you've been caught lying again.

You lied about the tunnels going into Israel and you're lying about this fantasy you have about being an electrical engineer.

My college room mate for a little over 12 years earned his PHD in electrical engineering. You are definitely NOT electrical engineer material.

Just like you don't know a thing about life as an Arab Muslim in Israel and yet your going on about that as well.

No credibility at all at this point Billy. None at all.

So where were we ;--)

Oh yeah, what have the Gazans brought on themselves

The Gazans have a choice, they can live in their own filth, or they can learn to live like civilized human beings. Its their choice

A PHD in electrical engineering? That means he's not good enough to get a job as an EE, so his plan B is to teach it.

If you have this friend, then why don't you get the answer to my question? Because if you can't, you shouldn't be on this train.

As for the tunnels, the UN says they go to Egypt, not Israel. And none of you have provided any evidence that they do.

Gazans did not bring it on themselves. Every time they try a civilized solution, Israel makes up some reason to attack them.

You don't need a PHD to teach a subject, but you do if you want to use the term engineer as a letterhead. Just as you need to have an M.D. to practise medicine, but can treat minor injuries without one. I can elevate, dress and clean a wound but I cant prescribe medication.
I worked towards a PHD but found it interfered with my social life so gave up training and became a drinker instead.
Just because the US state you work in does this it does not mean that the rest of the world does. So your question only applies to your small part of the whole world.

Get it right the report that you found contained one small mention of the tunnels prior to 2010 going to Egypt does not prove that the thousands of other UN reports regarding the tunnels going to Israel do not exist. Climb down of your high horse and admit that you made a mistake.

Can you show how over 2000 illegal rockets fired as Israeli children can be considered a civilised solution, how illegally kidnapping an Israeli soldier and denying him his basic rights under International law is a civilised solution. In fact can you find one civilised solution the Palestinians have tried that did not involve violence on their part that has been tried ?

There was a janitor at my high-school, Ace, who also called himself an engineer.

 

[Phoenall]

Another thing the Palestinian's must endure, is the constant barrage of lies and propaganda in the media. The whole discussion is about the rocket fire into the OPT, not the constant day to day killing of Palestinian's at the hands of the IDF.

Despite the fact that they have vastly inferior weapons, are killed in much greater numbers than Israelis, live under Israeli occupation and are having their land taken from them by Israelis, Palestinians are generally portrayed in the US as the aggressor. Ironically, under the much vilified Hamas-led Palestinian Authority, Palestinians have killed by far the fewest Israelis in any period during this six-year intifada — nineteen Israelis over seven months.
​

All we here about, are the weapons going into Gaza. By comparison, what we don't hear, is about all the weapons in Israel.

Israeli reporter Amira Hass put Gaza arms smuggling in perspective, writing in the Israeli Ha’aretz on October 18 that “what exists in Israelis’ consciousness is not the millions of cluster bombs … or the tens of millions of bombs and shells and lethal bullets stored in our arms warehouses and our gun barrels and the bellies of our helicopters and planes. Although the amount of such explosives is measured in the millions of tons, it is the 20 tons of explosives and the few thousand rifles that permeate the Israeli consciousness.”​

You even get this wrong as there is no rocket fire into the OPT, it is all coming out of the OPT into Israel. Every rocket fired is not just a war crime but a declaration of war, and so is returned. The simple fact that the Palestinians ignore the Geneva conventions and IHL by firing these illegal weapons from civilian areas and inside the grounds of schools, hospitals and mosques means that civilians will be killed in the return fire.
No matter how many times you post this anti Jew, anti American and anti democracy POS report that the author admits has no basis in facts or truth it will not change anything. The facts are still the same, the Palestinians fire from civilian areas so that civilians will be killed so that they can make false claims and propaganda to get empty headed numbskulls to shout for them that Israel is evil and murdering innocent people.

What about the many more trillions of cluster bombs, tens of trillions of bombs, shells and lethal bullets in the US warehouses bellies of helicopters and planes just ready to massacre America's enemies if they should ever start a war of attrition similar to the one started by the Palestinians against Israel.


What you should look at is why hamas and fatah fight from civilian areas when there is so much open ground that can be used, and why they complain if Israel responds in force to these attacks. I wonder how long you would allow it to happen if it was the Palestinians attacking the US in the same manner and making the same false claims.

 

[Phoenall]

If you're an electrical engineer, I'm president Obama LMAO

Is that a step up, or step down, from Pope?

In the US Phoenall we'd call him a Grunt. Most semiskilled laborers have one to do the heavy lifting and help prolong what passes for a career. Typically they are young, dumb, foul mouthed ( love to shoot their mouths off about things they don't know anything about ) and in general, not very happy.

Hmmmmm, who does that remind me of ;--)

This thread isn't about me.

Tell us more about the lives of people on the other side of the planet from you Billy, tell us more ;--)

That you have to go all the way to Nazi Germany to find an entire population of people treated worse.

In the end the lives of the palestinians as they'd sell it is entirely someone else's fault.

In this case, that would be the Israel's (who don't take responsibility for anything they do).

How about time to take responsibility for your own actions and face reality Gaza is an independent country without the capacity to act in a civilized manor.

If Gaza was independent, they'd have control of their airspace and territorial waters.

PS
Sounds like you pull wire for an electrician ( far cry from an electrical engineer ) on some filthy construction site. Best of luck with that, I hear construction is going through another slump.

Since you were unable to answer my question, you're not qualified to render a value judgement on my engineering skills.

"You'd have to go all the way back to Nazi Germany to find an entire population treated worse".

Since Nazi Germany, there have been genocides in Cambodia, Rwanda, Sudan, Bosnia, and in the Middle East today (concerning Christians). Don't they qualify as people?

Not unless there are Jews involved, otherwise they are of no concern to our resident Jew haters.

 

[Phoenall]

Face it Billy boy, you've been caught lying again.

You lied about the tunnels going into Israel and you're lying about this fantasy you have about being an electrical engineer.

My college room mate for a little over 12 years earned his PHD in electrical engineering. You are definitely NOT electrical engineer material.

Just like you don't know a thing about life as an Arab Muslim in Israel and yet your going on about that as well.

No credibility at all at this point Billy. None at all.

So where were we ;--)

Oh yeah, what have the Gazans brought on themselves

The Gazans have a choice, they can live in their own filth, or they can learn to live like civilized human beings. Its their choice

A PHD in electrical engineering? That means he's not good enough to get a job as an EE, so his plan B is to teach it.

If you have this friend, then why don't you get the answer to my question? Because if you can't, you shouldn't be on this train.

As for the tunnels, the UN says they go to Egypt, not Israel. And none of you have provided any evidence that they do.

Gazans did not bring it on themselves. Every time they try a civilized solution, Israel makes up some reason to attack them.

You don't need a PHD to teach a subject, but you do if you want to use the term engineer as a letterhead. Just as you need to have an M.D. to practise medicine, but can treat minor injuries without one. I can elevate, dress and clean a wound but I cant prescribe medication.
I worked towards a PHD but found it interfered with my social life so gave up training and became a drinker instead.
Just because the US state you work in does this it does not mean that the rest of the world does. So your question only applies to your small part of the whole world.

Get it right the report that you found contained one small mention of the tunnels prior to 2010 going to Egypt does not prove that the thousands of other UN reports regarding the tunnels going to Israel do not exist. Climb down of your high horse and admit that you made a mistake.

Can you show how over 2000 illegal rockets fired as Israeli children can be considered a civilised solution, how illegally kidnapping an Israeli soldier and denying him his basic rights under International law is a civilised solution. In fact can you find one civilised solution the Palestinians have tried that did not involve violence on their part that has been tried ?

There was a janitor at my high-school, Ace, who also called himself an engineer.

In the US train drivers are called engineers, I wonder why that was.

 

[Phoenall]

They have access to over 2300 calories a day. In fact, there is an obesity problem in Gaza with nearly 70% of people being overweight or obese.

There shouldn't be any restrictions on food.

Actually, the Gaza strip is agriculturally self-sufficient. They produce enough fruits and vegetables for their domestic population and are now farming items such as strawberries and flowers for export.

A third of Gazans farmland fall within these "buffer zones".

"...35 percent of the strip’s farming land is located in areas close to the border."
​

Exports from Gaza is virtually non-existent.

Israeli's..."allow up to 10 truckloads of exports a day. This number represents less than 30 percent of pre-2007 exports from Gaza. Also, only specific kinds of products may be exported.

The severe restrictions on exports have severely reduced the income of farmers, who previously exported their produce and now must sell at a loss in the local market, and workshops and factories have had to close because they are prevented from marketing their goods abroad."​

Fishing and fish farming produce 224 tons of fish annually.

That doesn't change the fact that you shoot at them while they are trying to fish and you have no right restricting them to 6 miles from their own coast. That is deliberate and it is intentional.

The Coastal Aquifer is a mess, but it is certainly not caused exclusively by the conflict (without doubt the conflict exacerbated the problem -- but that is NOT equivalent to an intentional genocide). Its caused by a variety of factors, most of which are the responsibility of the Gaza people and government to address. Israel also provides water to Gaza.

The aquifer is a mess and it is definitely Israel's fault.

18,000 homes destroyed in a conflict, while tragic, does not make a genocide. To my knowledge no deaths have occurred due to lack of shelter.

Over 100,000 people are homeless. You make such a fine German.

There are 32 hospitals in Gaza. And 93 primary health care centers. Israel also offers medical care to some citizens of Gaza.

While it let others die.

"Israel has cut back on issuing permits to enter the country for the hundreds of patients each month who need immediate life-saving treatment and urgent, advanced treatment unavailable in Gaza."​

I'm not trying to argue that there aren't some issues and problems to be solved in Gaza. There most certainly are. I'm also not trying to say that Israel's economic sanctions aren't contributing to the problem. They most certainly are. (As they are intended to).

There, you said it. What Israel is doing to Gaza is intentional.

My argument is that these problems, real as they are, do not meet the criteria for an intentional, physical genocide and the argument that they do remains more than a little ridiculous.

You just got done admitting it was intentional.

But, I suppose, no more or less ridiculous than stating that all Israelis are "fair game" and that there were never any tunnels built from Gaza into Israel.

Why do you keep telling that lie? Show me where I said "all Israeli's are fair game", or shut your fucking mouth!

The bottom line is, you cannot do that much widespread destruction unintentionally. You need to stop telling the world the emperor has new clothes.

There isn't, the restrictions are on dual purpose materials

LINK as this would mean 30% of gaza is within 100 yards of the border ?

You do know that the Palestinians wanted Israel to provide transport, pay shipping costs and be fully accountable for the quality of the produce, and when Israel declined the produce was left to rot in the fields.

And you have yet to prove this as a fact as all you show is boats on water somewhere in the universe with cargo nets being deployed. No actual proof of anything and they could be filmed anywhere in the world. BUT IF THE EVIDENCE SHOWS THE TONNAGE OF FISH LANDED THAT IS PROOF THAT THEY ARE NOT SYSTEMATICALLY SHOT AT

Do explain how a natural occurrence losing its ability to produce more water than it holds is down to Israel. That is like saying that the moon is not edible because the US landed there and poisoned all the cheese.

Nothing to do with the Germans, but it is down to hamas who has stolen 90% of the building materials to rebuild the tunnels and their shelters so they don't face the Israeli return fire.

So why don't you take them in and pay for their treatment, I forgot they are not Americans and don't have medical insurance.
It is not up to Israel to take care of the Palestinians it is up to their elected government who steal all the medical supplies and sells them on the black market.

Yes but not illegal, just as what the US did to Iraq and Iran was not illegal either, and more goods were blockaded then that Israel blockaded in gaza.

When you say that foreign nationals can not claim self defence

And you need to tell him to put some clothes on.

 

[Phoenall]

Post #175 on the thread: IDF preps fro ground strike

When asked for clarification you replied, on post #234 of the same thread:

Fair game=not protected persons=nationals of Israel=Israelis.

You are really pushing it as much as you can to take what I said out of context. Nationals of a foreign force, are those living in an area of occupation and therefore, according to the 4th Geneva Convention, are not protected persons. Israeli's, living in Israel proper, are.

So I cannot possibly be talking about "ALL" Israeli's. You knew this going in and you still deliberately took my statements out of context.

The rest of your post still fails to demonstrate that the criteria for both the intent and the physical destruction of genocide has been met.

Well, if my statements didn't, then operation protective edge certainly did. And looking back on everything the Israeli's have done (since 1948) to the Palestinian's, there is no question the intent is genocide.

a systematic campaign of murder and ethnic cleansing in 1947-48,
the killing of an estimated 13,000 Palestinians,
the forcible eviction of 850,000
the depopulation and subsequent destruction of nearly 500 villages and localities.​

Massacre's at...

Deir Yassin, Tantoura, Abbasiyya, Beit Daras, Bir Al-Saba’, Haifa ​

That is deliberate; that is intentional; that is ethnic cleansing; that is genocide!

As an example:

If 35% of Gazan land is not-farmable due to a buffer zone, and Gaza is STILL self-sufficient agriculturally and is capable of producing a surplus for export -- the criteria for the intentional physical destruction of the people of Gaza, in terms of food production, falls far short.

Here we are how many webpages in and you still haven't addressed any other issue that was listed in the OP. You are deliberately trying to derail the conversation off on one issue, in order to prevent any meaningful discussion on the Palestinian plight. Because nothing happens in a vacuum. You have to look at everything they've gone through to get a clear understanding of...

...LIFE AS THE PALESTINIANS KNOW IT!​

Then you use the same article to show that the targets of the illegal rockets are foreign nationals and not covered, so they cant claim self defence. Forgetting that Israel is not occupying gaza under the same Geneva conventions and IHL.

Unproven and your claims are based on islamonazi propaganda

People get killed in war which is why 10% of the Jewish population was killed at the same time. Can we claim that as genocide ?

Not bad from a population of only 350,000 So the other 500,000 must be illegal immigrants or arab league soldiers

Enemy strongholds which became military targets

Again unproven and just conjecture


This is islamonazi propaganda and Jew hatred because that is all you know.

 

[Phoenall]

Of coarse they do. The ONLY reason ANY of the restrictions are NECESSARY is directly because of the endless violence of the Arab Muslims. They declared war in 1948 and have created their own little world ever since.

Violence didn't start until the Zionist migration. Before that, Palestinian-Jews and Palestinian-Arabs got along just fine. They still do. It was the Zionist migration that imported all the hostility violence into the area.

And no, I didn't pay much attention to your question. Actually I don't pay much attention to you. I do recall the questions were something about rigging and code and had nothing to do with actual electrical engineering. So yeah. I'm not impressed. My bet is your a laborer for an electrician in charge of carrying tools and pulling wire. Maybe you get to bend a conduit every once in a while.

You didn't pay attention to what I said, you don't pay much attention to me, yet you insist on making value judgments on what I do? And to top it off, you claim the electrical code, has nothing to do with electrical engineering? Trolls like you would claim Michael Jordan doesn't know shit about basketball.

Oh and no my buddy isn't a teacher, he's at Los Alimos. It'll be a cold day, well you get the picture, before I discuss any of our studies online.

Then have him answer my question, if he's so smart.

Oh, I forgot, trolls don't answer direct questions, either.

Long story short, if your an electrical engineer I'm back to being the Pope. Since you have trouble understanding other metaphors

What was wrong with Obama? Dude, you waffle more than IHOP.

As for the condition of the Arab Muslims living in Israel. They'd have been a lot better off without all the racism and hatred than they are now desperately trying to tunnel into Israel while they let their woman and children suffer

Prove the tunnels go into Israel. Just saying they do, doesn't cut it.

Then when was this Zionist migration so I can produce evidence of massacres of the Jews by arab muslims prior to this.

Have done and you insist that a ten year old UN trade report is more evidence that the words of a hamas leader from last year

 

[fanger]

You are delusional. Before Israel your buddies were planning genocide

Now there's life as the pali's know it. Conferring with their fellow Nazi's on just how to "get along" as you call it, with their Jewish neighbors.

US President Hoover meets Hitler

 

[Boston1]

Yes they did meet Hitler, but they were negotiating peace. When the Mufti met Hitler they were planning genocide

 

[Shusha]

Here we are how many webpages in and you still haven't addressed any other issue that was listed in the OP.

Are you getting bored with flailing around trying unsuccessfully to defend your silly notion that Israel is committing a genocide in Gaza and the West Bank?

All right then. Let's try this one:

Having your free movement denied by enclosed population centers, closed borders, regular curfews, roadblocks, checkpoints, electric fences, and separation walls.

The problem with this is that it fails to recognize the responsibility for one's own actions. The reason these things exist is because of the violence committed against innocent Israeli citizens. The way to solve the problem is to stop the violence. It doesn't serve any purpose anyways, in that it is not an effective way of furthering the Palestinians cause.

What do you think will happen if the people of Gaza and the West Bank Palestine just stopped attacking the people of Israel?

 

[Billo_Really]

Are you getting bored with flailing around trying unsuccessfully to defend your silly notion that Israel is committing a genocide in Gaza and the West Bank?

All right then. Let's try this one:

Having your free movement denied by enclosed population centers, closed borders, regular curfews, roadblocks, checkpoints, electric fences, and separation walls.

The problem with this is that it fails to recognize the responsibility for one's own actions. The reason these things exist is because of the violence committed against innocent Israeli citizens. The way to solve the problem is to stop the violence. It doesn't serve any purpose anyways, in that it is not an effective way of furthering the Palestinians cause.

What do you think will happen if the people of Gaza and the West Bank Palestine just stopped attacking the people of Israel?

Do you think you have a right to tell me what I can (and cannot) do on my own property?

Do you think you have a right to build a fence on my front lawn?

Do you think you have a right to prevent me from accessing my own driveway?

Because that's what you're doing in the OPT.

BTW, Israeli's living in the West Bank, should be attacked. They are there illegally and are doing nothing but exacerbating the problem.

 

[Billo_Really]

Are you getting bored with flailing around trying unsuccessfully to defend your silly notion that Israel is committing a genocide in Gaza and the West Bank?

I almost forgot; the answer is 'no'. I dig this shit. Arguments are my Disneyland.

 

[Billo_Really]

There was a janitor at my high-school, Ace, who also called himself an engineer.

Custodial engineer?

Sometimes they call themselves Plant Manager.

 

[Shusha]

Are you getting bored with flailing around trying unsuccessfully to defend your silly notion that Israel is committing a genocide in Gaza and the West Bank?

I almost forgot; the answer is 'no'. I dig this shit. Arguments are my Disneyland.

LOL. Grin.

 

[Billo_Really]

Since Nazi Germany, there have been genocides in Cambodia, Rwanda, Sudan, Bosnia, and in the Middle East today (concerning Christians). Don't they qualify as people?

Did theirs last 60 years?

 

[Billo_Really]

LOL. Grin.

That's one of my biggest problems. Sometimes I get too confrontational.

Yeah, I know. Sometimes?

 

[Shusha]

That's one of my biggest problems. Sometimes I get too confrontational.

Yeah, I know. Sometimes?

Meh. I LIKE your confrontational. If you stopped arguing stupid things -- you would be a monster to have to put an argument in front of.

 

[Shusha]

BTW, Israeli's living in the West Bank, should be attacked. They are there illegally and are doing nothing but exacerbating the problem.

You didn't answer my question. What would happen if the people of Gaza and the people of "Palestine" just stopped attacking the people of Israel?

 

[Boston1]

Are you getting bored with flailing around trying unsuccessfully to defend your silly notion that Israel is committing a genocide in Gaza and the West Bank?

All right then. Let's try this one:

Having your free movement denied by enclosed population centers, closed borders, regular curfews, roadblocks, checkpoints, electric fences, and separation walls.

The problem with this is that it fails to recognize the responsibility for one's own actions. The reason these things exist is because of the violence committed against innocent Israeli citizens. The way to solve the problem is to stop the violence. It doesn't serve any purpose anyways, in that it is not an effective way of furthering the Palestinians cause.

What do you think will happen if the people of Gaza and the West Bank Palestine just stopped attacking the people of Israel?

Do you think you have a right to tell me what I can (and cannot) do on my own property?

Do you think you have a right to build a fence on my front lawn?

Do you think you have a right to prevent me from accessing my own driveway?

Because that's what you're doing in the OPT.

BTW, Israeli's living in the West Bank, should be attacked. They are there illegally and are doing nothing but exacerbating the problem.

You crack me up with this shit. OK so you seem to think you have an automatic right to access your property. Sorry but you'd better read that deed carefully. Lots of properties can be had cheap because they lack access.

The land use dep definitely has the ability to tell you what you can and can't do on your own property.

As far as that fence is concerned, pre existing or court ordered right of way is often an obstacle on private property.

Depends if you had a driveway permit ;--)

And last but not least that nonsense about Israeli's living in the disputed territories. What makes you think the remnant Arab Armies and their families living in the disputed territories have any more right to that area than Israel does ? Given Israel has the last legally binding claim; the mandate. Everything west of the Jordan is open to use for the creation of the national Jewish homeland.

Your funny. I've been having way to much fun refuting your nonsense, but yeah at least this time you stuck to the subject.

The simple reality is neither of us can speak from a position of experience of life as a pali, so the subject is kinda moot. As there is no one here who is an Arab Muslim living in Israel.