Let's take a look of what being gay can mean in Iran

[glockmail]

Hasn't Reneer given you studies? Haven't you been given evidence before? And yes, I am avoiding the question, but not because you've stumped me. I just seem to remember someone actually answering this question of yours before in another thread.

No, I haven't been involved in this discussion before. Perhaps your friend could point me in the right direction. Curious, though, that you use something to justify your position, but don't feel the need to have the back-up for it available. The appearance is that of someone with an indefensible position.

 

[Reneer]

I'm sure you are correct on the dates, but you missed the point completely. Since the exploitation of the ME oil resource didn't start until well after Ford built cars to actually use the stuff, then for several decades while we used our own, and then finally figured out how to get the ME oil to market via larger and larger tankers, it wasn't until the 50's or so the the ME kings became gazillionaires. So prior to the money and power, Arab immigrants weren't much different than most other immigrants, who simply desired to become part of the American Fabric. This is different than the Arab immigrants of today, many of which seek to destroy America, as well as France and all western society. And the difference is due to money and lust for power.

You're correct on the timeline, but I think you are 100% incorrect about the immigrants. Why? Arabs are still immigrating to America. I don't see New York / Dearborn burning. See here for a timeline. You'll note that the most recent 4th wave began after 1965. Oil tankers were well in use by then. So why hasn't there been numerous uprisings in Dearborn and New York City, if by your assertion all prior 1965 Arab immigrants simply want to destroy America?

No, I haven't been involved in this discussion before. Perhaps your friend could point me in the right direction. Curious, though, that you use something to justify your position, but don't feel the need to have the back-up for it available. The appearance is that of someone with an indefensible position.

See here, here (twin study), here, and here.

 

[glockmail]

..... So why hasn't there been numerous uprisings in Dearborn and New York City, if by your assertion all prior 1965 Arab immigrants simply want to destroy America?

......

I didn't say "all", I said "many". That was rather obvious.

1. Why would you attempt to misrepresent my position?
2. When the "destroy" crowd gets to a critical mass, then they will attack. This MO is written in the Koran, or a Hadith, whatever. This will take time in the US. It is happening now in France, as they are the "canary" of Europe, as I have stated earlier. Unless we react to it in Europe they will eventually try it here.
3. Are you denying that this is Islam's goal?

 

[Kagom]

No, I haven't been involved in this discussion before. Perhaps your friend could point me in the right direction. Curious, though, that you use something to justify your position, but don't feel the need to have the back-up for it available. The appearance is that of someone with an indefensible position.

I could easily get sources if I wanted to, but as I've said prior, I believe that someone had given you sources on the same or a similar issue and that I shouldn't have to work more than necessary. It's called laziness.

 

[Reneer]

I didn't say "all", I said "many". That was rather obvious.

1. Why would you attempt to misrepresent my position?

My apologies, I didn't mean to misrepresent your position. You asserted that many 'new' immigrants want to destroy America, not all.

2. When the "destroy" crowd gets to a critical mass, then they will attack. This MO is written in the Koran, or a Hadith, whatever. This will take time in the US. It is happening now in France, as they are the "canary" of Europe, as I have stated earlier. Unless we react to it in Europe they will eventually try it here.

I highly disagree with this. There are major cultural differences between the United States and Europe, particularly France. France's economic policies are quite different from the U.S - 25% of people under 25 in France are unemployed. There are roughly 39,746,734 people between the ages of 15 and 65 living in France. Let's say that 5 million of them are under 25. That leaves us with roughly one million two hundred fifty thousand (1,250,000) people out of work. You also have to remember that France is roughly twice the size of Colorado, so the population density is pretty high. There are many others reasons why there was a riot in France amongst young Muslims - they are socially forced into suburbs of Paris, which are basically projects. They don't have jobs and can't find new ones because of France's labor laws. It isn't simply because they are Muslim that they rioted.

3. Are you denying that this is Islam's goal?

Yes, I am denying that that is mainstream Islam's goal. However, the radical Islam fundamentalists do get away with it because the rest of Islam isn't trying to ouster them. And if it was Islam's overall goal, why aren't the Paris suburbs still burning? See here for some alternate reasons to why the riots in France started in the first place.

 

[glockmail]

I could easily get sources if I wanted to, but as I've said prior, I believe that someone had given you sources on the same or a similar issue and that I shouldn't have to work more than necessary. It's called laziness.

I think you should reconsider laziness as how you respond to important issues, especially atheism. Life is short, and eternity is forever.

 

[glockmail]

.....

I highly disagree with this. There are major cultural differences between the United States and Europe, particularly France. France's economic policies are quite different from the U.S - 25% of people under 25 in France are unemployed. There are roughly 39,746,734 people between the ages of 15 and 65 living in France. Let's say that 5 million of them are under 25. That leaves us with roughly one million two hundred fifty thousand (1,250,000) people out of work. You also have to remember that France is roughly twice the size of Colorado, so the population density is pretty high. There are many others reasons why there was a riot in France amongst young Muslims - they are socially forced into suburbs of Paris, which are basically projects. They don't have jobs and can't find new ones because of France's labor laws. It isn't simply because they are Muslim that they rioted.



Yes, I am denying that that is mainstream Islam's goal. However, the radical Islam fundamentalists do get away with it because the rest of Islam isn't trying to ouster them. And if it was Islam's overall goal, why aren't the Paris suburbs still burning? See here for some alternate reasons to why the riots in France started in the first place.

1. I never said the issue was simple. France is the "canary" because of French society- the economic issues that you raised are among the most important. But the fact is that France is an indicator of problems to come in Europe. And then there is Sudan and a few other places that radical Muslums are doing similar or worse things, like genocide.

2. This is about the third time that you have attempted to put words in my mouth. The written words of the Koran or Hadith state that the goal is to take over the world by force if necessary. That is the stated goal. I agree that most "moderate" Muslims have no intention of this. But likewise I have no faith in the moderates to contain the radicals once critical mass is met. After all, they have been unable to contain the radicals in the Middle East, even with US help.

 

[Reneer]

1. I never said the issue was simple. France is the "canary" because of French society- the economic issues that you raised are among the most important. But the fact is that France is an indicator of problems to come in Europe. And then there is Sudan and a few other places that radical Muslums are doing similar or worse things, like genocide.

My only question would be how you know that France is an indicator of problems in Europe.

2. This is about the third time that you have attempted to put words in my mouth. The written words of the Koran or Hadith state that the goal is to take over the world by force if necessary. That is the stated goal. I agree that most "moderate" Muslims have no intention of this. But likewise I have no faith in the moderates to contain the radicals once critical mass is met. After all, they have been unable to contain the radicals in the Middle East, even with US help.

I acknowledged and apologized for the other times that I accidentally misinterpreted your words, but this time I do not see how I am 'putting words into your mouth' by denying that Islam's goal is to convert all non-Muslims to Islam. I may be misinformed as to the Koran - I haven't read it - but there are a lot of things said in the Bible that Christians and Jews don't practice (both in the new and old Testaments, respectively.) Simply because it is in a holy book doesn't mean it is practiced. Simply because someone is Muslim doesn't mean they want to kill Americans or even convert them to Islam.

 

[Kagom]

I think you should reconsider laziness as how you respond to important issues, especially atheism. Life is short, and eternity is forever.

I do consider laziness when I respond to important issues. About 90% of the time, I don't because I have a point to make if it hasn't been made already. If it has been, then that's where the other 10% pops in.

I'm not an atheist, glock. I'm a deist. Different things.

Yes, life is short, but I believe in reincarnation.

 

[archangel]

I do consider laziness when I respond to important issues. About 90% of the time, I don't because I have a point to make if it hasn't been made already. If it has been, then that's where the other 10% pops in.

I'm not an atheist, glock. I'm a deist. Different things.

Yes, life is short, but I believe in reincarnation.

and here is where your ego lies...I have never met a person who was reincarnated...but hey if you have please tell all of us how it happens and what they must do to correct their pasts mistakes...this should be interesting!
I cannot for the life of me see why God would send us back...unless y'all believe in pergortory(here correct the sp if it helps!)...as is in Christain belief...one must stay in limbo until they correct past mistakes....Do Buddhist believe this also? I think this is their whole concept on life...could be wrong though!

 

[Kagom]

[/B]

and here is where your ego lies...I have never met a person who was reincarnated...but hey if you have please tell all of us how it happens and what they must do to correct their past mistakes...this should be interesting!
I cannot for the life of me see why God would send us back...unless y'all believe in Purgatory(spelling corrected!)...as is in Christain belief...one must stay in limbo until they correct past mistakes....Do Buddhist believe this also? I think this is their whole concept on life...could be wrong though!

I will admit I have a hard time explaining my belief in reincarnation, but it goes along the lines of letting us experience life differently each time. Nothing to do with mistakes.

Why would a god reincarnate us? I can't answer for any single deity that may (or may not) exist. I only speculate. But I do believe we don't retain knowledge from our former lives, which is why you've "never met someone who has been reincarnated."

 

[archangel]

I will admit I have a hard time explaining my belief in reincarnation, but it goes along the lines of letting us experience life differently each time. Nothing to do with mistakes.

Why would a god reincarnate us? I can't answer for any single deity that may (or may not) exist. I only speculate. But I do believe we don't retain knowledge from our former lives, which is why you've "never met someone who has been reincarnated."

Then what pray tell would be the point of reincarnation? If it is not to correct past mistakes!..Ya can't have your proverbial cake and eat it too!...and for not remembering ones past...why not...after all according to known science...we are nothing more than electronic energy...kinda sorta like a pc mother board...does it die with the body?...we are getting to the nitty gritty now! Have fun with this kag...it is time to start dinner...this body needs food...albeit is is nothing more than electronic energy...or so y'all say!

 

[Kagom]

Then what pray tell would be the point of reincarnation? If it is not to correct past mistakes!..Ya can't have your proverbial cake and eat it too!...and for not remembering ones past...why not...after all according to known science...we are nothing more than electronic energy...kinda sorta like a pc mother board...does it die with the body?...we are getting to the nitty gritty now! Have fun with this kag...it is time to start dinner...this body needs food...albeit is is nothing more than electronic energy...or so y'all say!

Like I said, I can't completely explain my beliefs. I can try though.

The point? Does there really have to be a point? Deities, by religious standards, have feelings and thoughts of their own and can experience loneliness. So instead of leaving the body to completely decay as well as the spirit, it recycles so the deity will never have to be alone.

You can't retain information in your brain through a type of transubstantiation. It'd be physically impossible. And the deity may not want us to remember for whatever reasons we're incapable of comprehending.

Yes, we are electronic energy, at least our physical selves are. Spirit is noncorpreal and is not tangible.

 

[glockmail]

My only question would be how you know that France is an indicator of problems in Europe.



I acknowledged and apologized for the other times that I accidentally misinterpreted your words, but this time I do not see how I am 'putting words into your mouth' by denying that Islam's goal is to convert all non-Muslims to Islam. I may be misinformed as to the Koran - I haven't read it - but there are a lot of things said in the Bible that Christians and Jews don't practice (both in the new and old Testaments, respectively.) Simply because it is in a holy book doesn't mean it is practiced. Simply because someone is Muslim doesn't mean they want to kill Americans or even convert them to Islam.

1. Because historically, at least for the last 9 or 10 decades, it ahs always been this way, becuase France is weak and tirants and bullys always go after the weak first.
2. You are confusing the stated goal of Islam (the religion) with what you percieve as the intentions of moderate Muslims (the people). What's the deal with that?

 

[glockmail]

I do consider laziness when I respond to important issues. About 90% of the time, I don't because I have a point to make if it hasn't been made already. If it has been, then that's where the other 10% pops in.

I'm not an atheist, glock. I'm a deist. Different things.

Yes, life is short, but I believe in reincarnation.

What do you suppose your deity will send you back as?

 

[Gunny]

What do you suppose your deity will send you back as?

A gay lizard, of course.

 

[Nienna]

I tell you, it's that damn Mexican food. Too spicy for my stomach nowadays :/

You're too young to be upset by Mexican food. But here's something for you, Honey...

 

[Kagom]

What do you suppose your deity will send you back as?

Who knows. That's something up to the deity to decide.

 

[Kagom]

You're too young to be upset by Mexican food. But here's something for you, Honey...

I know I"m too young and that's what's sad. My body's messing up too early. Quite frankly, I blame the genetics on both sides of my family

 

[Gunny]

I know I"m too young and that's what's sad. My body's messing up too early. Quite frankly, I blame the genetics on both sides of my family

Y'know, it would just be WAY too easy ......