Let's have a reasonable and open-minded objective discussion about marijuana.

[Anachronism]

It is an intoxicant. Therefore, I would use the alcohol model. The country seems pretty comfortable with the sale of intoxicants with certain basic assurance of a minimum control.

Which is consistant with my desire to make consumptive alcohol and tobacco illegal as well.

 

[Tech_Esq]

I know a guy who is a hard-line Atheist and Libertarian. He believes ALL drugs should be legal. He says it's a freedom question, believes we should all be free to put whatever we want, into our body and the G has no business regulating any of it. He then goes on to say that Darwin's theories are real, and that in his idea of a free society, the addicts would weed themselves out of the gene pool within two generations.

He also says we should withdraw ALL troops from foreign soil and place them instead on our own borders. Close all bases, cede all islands to the natives of them, sell Alaska to the highest bidder, use our Navy only for defense of our waters, and essentially close this country off from the rest of the world and say "screw you." Cutting trillions off of foreign aid, "defense" and other wasteful stuff over his first four year term. And increasing GDP and revenue by becoming the world's largest supplier of drugs, cocaine, heroin, weed.... Wants a massive trade imbalance on this in our favor.

At last knowledge, he plans to run for President on the Libertarian ticket in 2016, the first election when he will be old enough to be POTUS.

An insider look at one of the most virulent, radical, pro-marijuana legalization zealots we have.

I don't have a problem with the first point. I think the second is absolutely what the Libertarian platform is, but it is still naive. The world is too small to only be defensive. If we understood the world like the Chinese do, (see the difference between Go! and Chess), then perhaps we could do that, but we don't so their is no point in disarming ourselves in the face of a pack of wolves. We need to play the game we understand.

 

[Tech_Esq]

It is an intoxicant. Therefore, I would use the alcohol model. The country seems pretty comfortable with the sale of intoxicants with certain basic assurance of a minimum control.

Which is consistant with my desire to make consumptive alcohol and tobacco illegal as well.

Prohibition of things is a bad idea and it's a worse idea in a putatively "free" country.

I hope you are unsuccessful in your efforts.

 

[Tech_Esq]

MJ can trigger mental illness. Am I going to be paying for other people' self inflicted mental instability?

What about driving under the influence of MJ? Is it gonna be acceptable to kill other people because of your inability to lay off the weed?

I have enough shit picking up the tab for other people's obesity, and alcohol problems. I don't see why I should have to take on yet more shit because other people want to get stoned.

Get stoned. Kill yourself. I don't care. Just keep it out of my life, you self-centered SOBs.

I've seen a lot of dope smoking in my time, but I've never seen it cause mental illness.

When I was growing up "they" used to say if you take LSD 5 times you become "legally insane" but apart from that, I've never heard of such a thing.

 

[Anachronism]

Prohibition of things is a bad idea and it's a worse idea in a putatively "free" country.

I think we're TOO "free". We've lost sight of the duties and responsibilities that come with "freedom"; therefore we need to rein it in before we lose any chance of getting back to what this country and our society was intended to be.

 

[JWBooth]

All hail the omnipresent and all powerful state. The state is my god, it shall tell me what I may or may not do with this body that it allows me to occupy. Marijuana is an evil derived from the soul of satan, I know this because agents of the state tell me so.

The state loves me this I know
for the state it tells me so
All of us to it belong
we are weak, but the state is strong

Yes, the state loves me! Yes, the state loves me!
Yes, the state loves me! Its acolytes tell me so.


The state, it loves me! This I know
as it loved so long ago
indoctrinating children in our schools
saying, "Make them come unto me."


Yes, the state loves me! Yes, the state loves me!
Yes, the state loves me! Its acolytes tell me so.

The state loves me still today,
walking with me on my way
cameras watching as I pass
big brother's love to all who live.

Yes, the state loves me! Yes, the state loves me!
Yes, the state loves me! Its acolytes tell me so.

/sarcasm

Too free my ass.
​

 

[Anachronism]

Too free my ass.

I have never, and will never recognize a "Right" to act in an Immoral manner. However, many people do seem to see such a "Right" to do so. While my acting in a moral and decent manner does not adversely affect their lives, their inability to do so most definitely DOES affect my life (and the lives of many others) in a negative way.

 

[JBeukema]

I'm not against the legalization of marijuana. I'm neither an advocate for it or a crusader against it. I have a open mind on the topic and really want to see reasonable discussions about it without the typical BS.

What would it be? What would it look like? How would it be administered? Would it follow the tobacco model, the alcohol one, or parts of both? Or would it be a unique model?

Do it just like tobacco

Also, stop sin-taxing the fuck out of tobacco- just an aside

Would we be allowed to grow it? Give it to our friends?

Can you give me any damned good reason to restrict this liberty?

Smoke it in public places where we can't smoke tobacco?

noxious smoke is noxious smoke

Legalization and decriminalization advocates, let's hear your ideas. I really believe I would vote for this if it's done intelligently.

No. In a free society, the burden is on those who want to curtail liberty to demonstrate why something should be illegal in the first place.

Would "big tobacco" take on the market?

I suspect so, insomuch as is feasible

Or would they by law be excluded

What would "big weed" be?

There are already lobbyists for medical (and recreational) marijuana in DC

 

[JBeukema]

I have faith in a free market finding the solution on who would sell it;be it tobacco companies or others; but regulations like those with alcohol could easily be imposed.

Now, it can be grown but beer can be micro brewed so it's not going to "cure our ills" such as children having access but I do think it would help make it harder. I know it was easier for me to get pot at 15 than beer and that was in the 70's.

Yes, would the law be okay with home grown strictly for personal use, like home brew beer? Would grow your own kits crop up at wal-mart? Would it be sold "loose" like RYO tobacco? For bong use? Bongs, pipes and other and paraphernalia would then be legal too?

Lotsa questions. Great input.

Can anyone make a good argument for curtailing such liberties, now that we've shown that the Jazz musicians and the Mexicans didn't go crazy on devil weed and kill all thew whities they saw?

Oh, and the paper/textiles industry can just suck it up and adapt or go out of business

 

[JBeukema]

What more can really be said?

Both sides are at impasse.

One of the safest drugs known to man -- one with enormous medical benefits -- is outlawed when tens of thousands of drugs with terrible contraindications are handed our like water to us and our children by big PHARMA and the medical cabal.

What is the justification for this?

Basically it comes down to this...marijuna is a litmus test of the authoritarian cranks.

If you sign on to the insane prohibition, (be you leaning right OR left) then you're on their authoritarian side of the human rights issue.

If you are a user? Then you are targeted from POLITICAL harassment using this insane law to do the dirty work.

Marijuana is illegal for POLTICAL REASONS, not medical, not social, but entirely for political reasons.

political,. racist, and economic-competition reasons, historically

 

[JBeukema]

MJ can trigger mental illness.

Demonstrate.

Am I going to be paying for other people' self inflicted mental instability?

Like when you run out of cigarettes? Oh wait, those are both physiaclly addictive...

What about driving under the influence of MJ? Is it gonna be acceptable to kill other people because of your inability to lay off the weed?

I oppose DUI laws. I support laws that make it a crime to operate a vehicle when impaired- be it alcohol, weed, or lack of sleep. If you can't pass a field cognizance/reflex test, you are to be charged with reckless endangerment and operating heavy aching while impaired.

 

[JBeukema]

MJ can trigger mental illness. Am I going to be paying for other people' self inflicted mental instability?

What about driving under the influence of MJ? Is it gonna be acceptable to kill other people because of your inability to lay off the weed?

I have enough shit picking up the tab for other people's obesity, and alcohol problems. I don't see why I should have to take on yet more shit because other people want to get stoned.

Get stoned. Kill yourself. I don't care. Just keep it out of my life, you self-centered SOBs.

Better to pay to out smokers in jail...

 

[xotoxi]

What about driving under the influence of MJ? Is it gonna be acceptable to kill other people because of your inability to lay off the weed?

You really think that it would be legal to operate a motor vehicle when under the influence of marijuana?

Do you think it is legal now?

 

[Triton]

Intoxicants and consciousness shifting substances should not be illegal. No government should be allowed to punish someone who ingests such substances and prevent one from altering their own consciousness.

Now, infringing upon the rights of another human being while intoxicated or in an altered state of consciousness should result in punishment. With freedom comes responsibility.

I and everyone else should be able to grow Marijuana in their home or front yard. Marijuana is perhaps the most studied substance on earth. Despite its perceptual and thought processing effects Marijuana is quite benign. It produces almost no toxicity with its only known impairing effects to be on short term memory and REM sleep. Marijuana's medicinal uses have also been well documented.

Marijuana is far less detrimental to the mind and body than most legal drugs. Its prohibition, along with many other drugs, is indeed political. Yet, I fear that legislation ending prohibition would meet strong resistance from the criminal element who profits so greatly from it and the lives of supporting legislators and their families would be put at great risk in doing so.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

I'm not against the legalization of marijuana. I'm neither an advocate for it or a crusader against it. I have a open mind on the topic and really want to see reasonable discussions about it without the typical BS.

What would it be? What would it look like? How would it be administered? Would it follow the tobacco model, the alcohol one, or parts of both? Or would it be a unique model?

Would we be allowed to grow it? Give it to our friends? Smoke it in public places where we can't smoke tobacco?

Legalization and decriminalization advocates, let's hear your ideas. I really believe I would vote for this if it's done intelligently.

Would "big tobacco" take on the market? Or would they by law be excluded, allowing a whole new industry to crop up? (puns, love 'em) What would "big weed" be?

GO!

I'm for the individual right to choose whether or not you wish to consume without the fear of being called a criminal and the lose of your job.

 

[Mr Liberty]

I know a guy who is a hard-line Atheist and Libertarian. He believes ALL drugs should be legal. He says it's a freedom question, believes we should all be free to put whatever we want, into our body and the G has no business regulating any of it. He then goes on to say that Darwin's theories are real, and that in his idea of a free society, the addicts would weed themselves out of the gene pool within two generations.

He also says we should withdraw ALL troops from foreign soil and place them instead on our own borders. Close all bases, cede all islands to the natives of them, sell Alaska to the highest bidder, use our Navy only for defense of our waters, and essentially close this country off from the rest of the world and say "screw you." Cutting trillions off of foreign aid, "defense" and other wasteful stuff over his first four year term. And increasing GDP and revenue by becoming the world's largest supplier of drugs, cocaine, heroin, weed.... Wants a massive trade imbalance on this in our favor.

At last knowledge, he plans to run for President on the Libertarian ticket in 2016, the first election when he will be old enough to be POTUS.

An insider look at one of the most virulent, radical, pro-marijuana legalization zealots we have.

We should legalize all drugs. Once again we have allow the government to interfere and violate our rights. We have the right to do whatever we want as long as we don't violate the rights of another. How can anyone profess to believe in liberty and natural rights, while supporting the so called war on drugs?

What are the results of this immoral act? Simply making it a crime has not prevented drug use, anymore than prohibition prevented drinking. Like prohibition organize criminals commit violent crimes in public, endangering the public, Look at the situation in the border region of Mexico. Drug cartels killing innocent civilians and public officials.

How much money has been spent, attempting to enforce this unenforceable laws? Even if a state passes a medical marijuana law the DEA will still arrest sick people. Our prisons are full of people because they decided to use or transport drugs. Who were their victims?
These laws just don't make sense to me.

This government was created to protect our rights, not violate them. Even if the majority disapproves of a certain behavior, it is wrong to criminalize it. All governments are evil and not to be trusted with too much power. Once you do, you will find yourself living under all kind of laws, designed to protect you from yourself.

 

[MikeK]

MJ can trigger mental illness. Am I going to be paying for other people' self inflicted mental instability?

What about driving under the influence of MJ? Is it gonna be acceptable to kill other people because of your inability to lay off the weed?

I have enough shit picking up the tab for other people's obesity, and alcohol problems. I don't see why I should have to take on yet more shit because other people want to get stoned.

Get stoned. Kill yourself. I don't care. Just keep it out of my life, you self-centered SOBs.

There is no more effective palliative for menstrual and menopausal discomforts than TetraHydraCannabinol (THC / cannabis / marijuana). It is superior to Midol or any other OTC or prescribed medication. In fact, prior to 1937 there was a perfectly legal OTC product called Lydia Pinkum's Ladies' Tonic, a thick, syrupy liquid which was distilled extract of high-potency cannabis combined with ordinary licorice for flavor. It was commonly used to relieve menstrual discomfort and to pacify cranky old bitches who were going through menopause.

I just thought you'd like to know.

Also, mothers would rub it on the gums of colicky babies to calm them and induce sleep.

Then came Reefer Madness and the Harrison Act which made marijuana illegal and fostered successive generations of ignorant, brainwashed, mean-spirited anti-marijuana stooges

 

[MikeK]

Which is consistant with my desire to make consumptive alcohol and tobacco illegal as well.

We already tried that and it didn't work out very well. In fact it gave rise to crime (bootlegging) syndicates.

We have a similar situation with marijuana prohibition, which has created the violent cartels that are wreaking havoc in Mexico and eventually will be doing the same thing here. Legalizing marijuana will break the back of those cartels

 

[MikeK]

We should force politicians to cut spending before we let them create a new method of taxation. The debate about marijuana is only necessary because the politicians know you aren't smart enough to talk about issues that matter.

If you consider the cost of prohibiting marijuana, which includes police, court personnel and prisons, you'll realize that legalizing marijuana will effect a major spending cut as well as generating substantial tax revenue.

 

[MikeK]

While I agree with your sentiment, we're already paying for the ill effects of drug use which is a by product of our welfare state which needs to be abolished too.

It's important to understand that marijuana should not have been included in the same (Schedule One) category as such addictive and truly harmful drugs as opiates and amphetamines because it is comparatively benign. Marijuana is not addictive and there is no record in the annals of medical science of anyone dying or being made sick from using (un-tainted) marijuana.

Simply stated, marijuana is relatively harmless and the only problems arising from its use are the consequence of ignorance, which derives from prohibution and facilitates misuse.