Lend-Lease: Whose Idea?

PoliticalChic

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Oct 6, 2008
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I see that an earlier OP on Lend-Lease stirred up a lot of discussion among history buffs.

So...a closer examination of FDR's brilliant plan might be in order.
The following might prove interesting.




1. There is copious evidence that Russia gained immense amounts of material via Lend-Lease, both during and after the war. This included material for their atomic bomb. The man in charge of Lend-Lease was Harry Hopkins, and there is evidence that Hopkins was an agent of the USSR.




2. How did the idea of Lend-Lease come about?

a. "How Roosevelt arrived at this ingenious idea, which cut through all the stale debates in Washington about loans and gifts, is unclear."
Doris Kearns Goodwin, "No Ordinary Time," p. 193.

b. Goodwin quotes Robert Sherwood, [author, "Roosevelt and Hopkins: An Intimate History"] who describes a conversation with Hopkins in which he, Hopkins, claimed that during a fishing trip with Roosevelt, "he suddenly came out with it (Lend-Lease)- the whole programme."

c. "One can only say that Roosevelt, a creative artist in politics, had put in his time on this cruise evolving the pattern of a masterpiece."
Sherwood, "The White House Papers of Harry L Hopkins Vol 1 Sept. 1939 - January 1942," p. 223.

d. I really like Labor Secretary Frances Perkins' description of Roosevelt's Lend-Lease plan as "a flash of almost clairvoyant knowledge and understanding."
Goodwin, Op. Cit.

Wadda guy! Brilliant!
Maybe FDR is the messiah that many believe him to be....






3. But what if Roosevelt didn't come up with the idea at all. What if someone else did?
Now, who would have benefited most from this idea?
Hmmm.....

a. "The millionaire industrialist, Armand Hammer played a key role in laying the foundations of Lend-Lease. As a dyed-in-the-wool collaborator of Lenin´s and Stalin’s in procuring Western, especially American, assistance in the industrialization of the USSR..... in November 1940

Armand Hammer met with FDR in the White House. He and the president discussed the idea of developing American military assistance to Britain, the Neutrality Act and Roosevelt’s campaign promises not to embroil the United States in the European war to the contrary.

Roosevelt thereupon suggested to Hammer that he discuss this plan with Harry Hopkins. Hopkins twice traveled to New York City, Hammer´s base of operations, to discuss this idea with officials and businessmen there.” Roosevelt?s Lend-Lease Act: The Arm and Hammer / Hammer and Sickle Connection | Justice for Germans

b. The program was finally authorized by Congress and signed into effect on March 11, 1941. By November, after much heated debate, Congress extended the terms of Lend-Lease to the Soviet Union, even though the USSR had already been the recipient of American military weapons and had been promised $1 billion in financial aid. FDR signs Lend-Lease ? History.com This Day in History ? 3/11/1941





4. From a review of "Dossier: The Secret History of Armand Hammer," by Edward Jay Epstein: The meticulously documented exposé of a celebrated American philanthropist - and traitor - that reads like a classic thriller.
New York Times Book Review Notable Book of the Year
Winner of the Financial Times Book Award

The dossier on Hammer tells another story. With unprecedented access to the files of both American and Soviet intelligence agencies as well as Hammer's own secretly taped conversations, investigative author Edward Jay Epstein lays bare the appalling fraud, unconscionable corruption, international treachery, and personal betrayal that indict beyond doubt this ruthlessly manipulative opportunist who courted American presidents and conspired with every Soviet leader from Lenin to Gorbachev.[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Dossier-Secret-History-Armand-Hammer/dp/B000GG4HG6]Amazon.com: Dossier: The Secret History of Armand Hammer: Edward Jay Epstein: Books[/ame]






5. And this about the man who shared lunches with Roosevelt, and Harry Hopkins: "Hammer sometimes claimed that his father had named him after a character, Armand Duval, in La Dame aux Camélias, a novel by Alexandre Dumas, fils.

In fact, according to multiple biographers, Hammer was named after the "arm and hammer" graphic symbol of the Socialist Labor Party of America(SLP), in which his father, a committed socialist, had a leadership role at one time.[8]

(After the Russian Revolution, a part of the SLP under Julius' leadership split off to become a founding element of the Communist Party USA.) Later in his life, Hammer confirmed that this was the origin of his given name.[2]" Armand Hammer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Seems that there are a lot of dots that need be connected....


Could it be that the brilliant FDR was not that brilliant.....and, in fact, was a dupe of the USSR?
 
Britain received about 3 times more money under Lend Lease than the USSR, so does that mean Britain was 3 times more communistic than the USSR? And what of the other 38 nations getting aid, innocent parties suppose? And was it just a cover-up move by the Congress passing Lend Lease even before the USSR was in the war?
 
Britain received about 3 times more money under Lend Lease than the USSR, so does that mean Britain was 3 times more communistic than the USSR? And what of the other 38 nations getting aid, innocent parties suppose? And was it just a cover-up move by the Congress passing Lend Lease even before the USSR was in the war?





"Your decision, Mr. President, to grant the Soviet Union an interest-free loan to the value of $1,000,000,000 to meet deliveries of munitions and raw materials to the Soviet Union is accepted by the Soviet Government with heartfelt gratitude as vital aid to the Soviet Union in its tremendous and onerous struggle against our common enemy-bloody Hitlerism.

Yours very sincerely, November 4, 1941

J. STALIN"

Correspondence of Roosevelt and Truman with Stalin on Lend Lease and Other Aid to the Soviet Union, 1941-1945






There must be a reason why you avoid the essence of these OP's....
i.e., whose idea Lend-Lease was.

...and how this has been covered up.






Do you have figures as to how much atomic bomb material Britain received?
I have same for the USSR.
 
Here are the implications presented as I understand them:

1. FDR is not a genius. If so, check. I never thought he was anyway.

2. FDR did not come up with Lend-Lease. Okay. Fair enough. No contention there. Although I'm not sure how important that detail is in and of itself.

3. The idea was formulated by an American business man with ties to the Soviet Union.

4. The U.S. was pulled into WWII via a plot by the Soviet Union that we would not have or should not have otherwise entered. I'm not sure if that is the point you are making, or some variant thereof, but if so, I'm not so sure our involvement was quite as simple as that. Likewise, I don't know that our alliance with the Soviets, while certainly a questionable alliance, was quite as simple as that. Rarely are such alliances that black and white. I am not certain if this is a point you are trying to make, so consider it much more of a question than an assumption.

The decision to involve ourselves overseas or take a more isolationist posture is never an easy one. I don't know exactly why such a thing was kept secret, just like I don't know every reason why a number of things about the U.S. and Allied operations were kept secret during and well after WWII. What are your thoughts?

Respectfully,
J.J.
 
Here are the implications presented as I understand them:

1. FDR is not a genius. If so, check. I never thought he was anyway.

2. FDR did not come up with Lend-Lease. Okay. Fair enough. No contention there. Although I'm not sure how important that detail is in and of itself.

3. The idea was formulated by an American business man with ties to the Soviet Union.

4. The U.S. was pulled into WWII via a plot by the Soviet Union that we would not have or should not have otherwise entered. I'm not sure if that is the point you are making, or some variant thereof, but if so, I'm not so sure our involvement was quite as simple as that. Likewise, I don't know that our alliance with the Soviets, while certainly a questionable alliance, was quite as simple as that. Rarely are such alliances that black and white. I am not certain if this is a point you are trying to make, so consider it much more of a question than an assumption.

The decision to involve ourselves overseas or take a more isolationist posture is never an easy one. I don't know exactly why such a thing was kept secret, just like I don't know every reason why a number of things about the U.S. and Allied operations were kept secret during and well after WWII. What are your thoughts?

Respectfully,
J.J.



1. "FDR did not come up with Lend-Lease. Okay. Fair enough. No contention there. Although I'm not sure how important that detail is in and of itself."

Well...who did.....and why did they?


The suggestion....and I don't know how you missed it...is that the idea came from those who wanted to nourish Mother Russia.
No...this is not a geographical designation, it is a political one.
It refers to folks who believed that the Soviet system is better than the one designed by the Founding Fathers.


2. ".... by an American business man with ties to the Soviet Union."
Ties?

The kind of relationship that one might have with their parent?
If that is the case.....it seems to me that the equanimity you evince is out of order.



3. "The U.S. was pulled into WWII via a plot by the Soviet Union that we would not have or should not have otherwise entered."
I'm hoping to have folks question the degree of involvement in the program, the amount and kinds of materials sent, and the length of time we did so.


4. "...or take a more isolationist posture..."
Not mine.


5. "What are your thoughts?"
My thoughts are that Harry Hopkins was a Soviet Spy. Rexford Tugwell was one in effect if not in actuality. Roosevelt was a simpleton who was manipulated by Stalin and the multitude of Soviet spies in his administration.




By the way, it didn't end with the penetration of the government.

This may provide some insight as to what has happened:

Soviet Prime Minister Vyacheslav Molotov [3] (of Molotov cocktail fame) outlined the strategy:
“Who reads the Communist papers? Only a few people who are already Communists. We don’t need to propagandize them [...]. We have to influence non-Communists if we want to make them Communists or if we want to fool them. So, we have to try to infiltrate in the big press.”
The Freedom Fighter's Journal: THE AMERICAN COMMUNIST MEDIA EXPOSED

Emphasis, mine.
 
Here are the implications presented as I understand them:

1. FDR is not a genius. If so, check. I never thought he was anyway.

2. FDR did not come up with Lend-Lease. Okay. Fair enough. No contention there. Although I'm not sure how important that detail is in and of itself.

3. The idea was formulated by an American business man with ties to the Soviet Union.

4. The U.S. was pulled into WWII via a plot by the Soviet Union that we would not have or should not have otherwise entered. I'm not sure if that is the point you are making, or some variant thereof, but if so, I'm not so sure our involvement was quite as simple as that. Likewise, I don't know that our alliance with the Soviets, while certainly a questionable alliance, was quite as simple as that. Rarely are such alliances that black and white. I am not certain if this is a point you are trying to make, so consider it much more of a question than an assumption.

The decision to involve ourselves overseas or take a more isolationist posture is never an easy one. I don't know exactly why such a thing was kept secret, just like I don't know every reason why a number of things about the U.S. and Allied operations were kept secret during and well after WWII. What are your thoughts?

Respectfully,
J.J.



1. "FDR did not come up with Lend-Lease. Okay. Fair enough. No contention there. Although I'm not sure how important that detail is in and of itself."

Well...who did.....and why did they?


The suggestion....and I don't know how you missed it...is that the idea came from those who wanted to nourish Mother Russia.
No...this is not a geographical designation, it is a political one.
It refers to folks who believed that the Soviet system is better than the one designed by the Founding Fathers.


2. ".... by an American business man with ties to the Soviet Union."
Ties?

The kind of relationship that one might have with their parent?
If that is the case.....it seems to me that the equanimity you evince is out of order.



3. "The U.S. was pulled into WWII via a plot by the Soviet Union that we would not have or should not have otherwise entered."
I'm hoping to have folks question the degree of involvement in the program, the amount and kinds of materials sent, and the length of time we did so.


4. "...or take a more isolationist posture..."
Not mine.


5. "What are your thoughts?"
My thoughts are that Harry Hopkins was a Soviet Spy. Rexford Tugwell was one in effect if not in actuality. Roosevelt was a simpleton who was manipulated by Stalin and the multitude of Soviet spies in his administration.




By the way, it didn't end with the penetration of the government.

This may provide some insight as to what has happened:

Soviet Prime Minister Vyacheslav Molotov [3] (of Molotov cocktail fame) outlined the strategy:
“Who reads the Communist papers? Only a few people who are already Communists. We don’t need to propagandize them [...]. We have to influence non-Communists if we want to make them Communists or if we want to fool them. So, we have to try to infiltrate in the big press.”
The Freedom Fighter's Journal: THE AMERICAN COMMUNIST MEDIA EXPOSED

Emphasis, mine.

Thank you for clarifying. Incidentally, I was not evincing anything. I was assessing you point. If you assume I was evincing anything then that is your perception.
 
I think it is much ado about nothing. Fascists nations died away, communism has died away and our way of govt. is still here. We and our allies came out the winners of WWII and that is what really matters. How the road was paved to victory is history.
Thank you FDR and the other world leaders for your triumph over oppression and evil of the Axis powers.
 
I think it is much ado about nothing. Fascists nations died away, communism has died away and our way of govt. is still here. We and our allies came out the winners of WWII and that is what really matters. How the road was paved to victory is history.
Thank you FDR and the other world leaders for your triumph over oppression and evil of the Axis powers.



"....communism has died away and our way of govt. is still here. "


OMG!
 
I think it is much ado about nothing. Fascists nations died away, communism has died away and our way of govt. is still here. We and our allies came out the winners of WWII and that is what really matters. How the road was paved to victory is history.
Thank you FDR and the other world leaders for your triumph over oppression and evil of the Axis powers.



"....communism has died away and our way of govt. is still here. "


OMG!

That's what you are up against PC.
Good luck. :lol:
 
I think it is much ado about nothing. Fascists nations died away, communism has died away and our way of govt. is still here. We and our allies came out the winners of WWII and that is what really matters. How the road was paved to victory is history.
Thank you FDR and the other world leaders for your triumph over oppression and evil of the Axis powers.



"....communism has died away and our way of govt. is still here. "


OMG!

That's what you are up against PC.
Good luck. :lol:



Hard for me to believe the depth....the abject, abysmal depth....of ignorance.


I'm gonna post an FDR OP today....and start it with that post.
 
I think it is much ado about nothing. Fascists nations died away, communism has died away and our way of govt. is still here. We and our allies came out the winners of WWII and that is what really matters. How the road was paved to victory is history.
Thank you FDR and the other world leaders for your triumph over oppression and evil of the Axis powers.




Just for you, drop-draws....


http://www.usmessageboard.com/politics/307012-so-you-believe-america-is-still-here.html
 
Well, I wondered where this bat shit crazy thread came from, and now I know. LOL

Conservative Historian Has Interesting Ideas -- Daily Intelligencer


I've seen your posts....and "I know" is about as far from a description as one could apply to you.



From your link:
"But her book has managed to attract quite a bit of support from respectable and semi-respectable outlets on the right. The Heritage Foundation feted West, Amity Shlaes blurbed it, the American Spectator and Daily Caller issued raves, and Breitbart is actually serializing the book."



Let's see if I can teach you a word you seem unable to define: respectable-


re·spect·a·ble
/riˈspektəbəl/
Adjective
Regarded by society to be good, proper, or correct.

Synonyms
reputable - honorable - honourable - venerable - decent
 
Last edited:
I think it is much ado about nothing. Fascists nations died away, communism has died away and our way of govt. is still here. We and our allies came out the winners of WWII and that is what really matters. How the road was paved to victory is history.
Thank you FDR and the other world leaders for your triumph over oppression and evil of the Axis powers.
"....communism has died away and our way of govt. is still here. " OMG!
I know right? :lol:

The USA is a Banker controlled Fascist State.

I want to thank all you Veterans out there who made this possible! Maybe get get a "Red Ribbon" Campaign going.
 
I think it is much ado about nothing. Fascists nations died away, communism has died away and our way of govt. is still here. We and our allies came out the winners of WWII and that is what really matters. How the road was paved to victory is history.
Thank you FDR and the other world leaders for your triumph over oppression and evil of the Axis powers.
"....communism has died away and our way of govt. is still here. " OMG!
I know right? :lol:

The USA is a Banker controlled Fascist State.

I want to thank all you Veterans out there who made this possible! Maybe get get a "Red Ribbon" Campaign going.





Look how similar we are, you and I!

I wring my hands over the advances that communism has made.....


....and you clap yours!
 
Political Chic doesn't believe that bias is wrong, as long as it is conservative bias. You can't knock her on consistency.
 
Political Chic doesn't believe that bias is wrong, as long as it is conservative bias. You can't knock her on consistency.

bi·as
/ˈbīəs/
Noun
Prejudice in favor of or against one thing, person, or group compared with another, usually in a way considered to be unfair.


Where?
 
Political Chic doesn't believe that bias is wrong, as long as it is conservative bias. You can't knock her on consistency.

bi·as
/ˈbīəs/
Noun
Prejudice in favor of or against one thing, person, or group compared with another, usually in a way considered to be unfair.


Where?

So, you don't favor conservative sources and opinions over others?
 
bi·as
/ˈbīəs/
Noun
Prejudice in favor of or against one thing, person, or group compared with another, usually in a way considered to be unfair.


Where?

So, you don't favor conservative sources and opinions over others?




Where is the bias?

Did you read the definition you provided?

If you hadn't noticed I'm just giving you a hard time. It's not that serious. Not everything has to be a war.
 

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