Lefty Supremes Kagan & Breyer Tell Why They Sided With People of Faith In Colorado Gay Cake Issue

Were you shocked by the USSC decision on the Colorado baker vs PA laws?

  • Yes, I thought for sure the baker would lose

  • Maybe. I thought the baker had a 50-50 chance

  • No, I knew the PA thugs would get checked sooner or later

  • Shouldn't this be in a forum where hardly anyone posts?


Results are only viewable after voting.

Silhouette

Gold Member
Jul 15, 2013
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Kennedy wrote the Opinion on behalf of the Court. He's a middle grounder.

Kagan and Breyer however are steeped liberals. They're just barely to the right of Ginsburg. So their opinions are a bit more deserving of the microscope in this situation because as future challenges check back in with this case, they must acknowledge that even the liberal opinion concurs.

Kagan wrote this but Breyer concurred. https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/17pdf/16-111_j4el.pdf
On what would be the next page after page 18 on the Opinion of the Court written by Kennedy.

********
Pages 1-2

It is a general rule that [religious and philosophical] objections do not allow business owners and other actors in the economy and in society to deny protected persons equal access to goods and services under a neutral and generally applicable public accommodations law.” Ante, at 9. But in upholding that principle, state actors cannot show hostility to religious views; rather, they must give those views “neutral and respectful consideration.” Ante, at 12. I join the Court’s opinion in full because I believe the Colorado Civil Rights Commission did not satisfy that obligation. I write separately to elaborate on one of the bases for the Court’s holding.

The Court partly relies on the “disparate consideration of Phillips’ case compared to the cases of [three] other bakers” who “objected to a requested cake on the basis of conscience.” Ante, at 14, 18. In the latter cases, a customer named William Jack sought “cakes with images that conveyed disapproval of same-sex marriage, along with religious text”; the bakers whom he approached refused to make them. Ante, at 15; see post, at 3 (GINSBURG, J., dissenting) (further describing the requested cakes). Those bakers prevailed before the Colorado Civil Rights Division and Commission, while Phillips—who objected for religious reasons to baking a wedding cake for a same-sex couple—did not. The Court finds that the legal reasoning of the state agencies differed in significant ways as between the Jack cases and the Phillips case. See ante, at 15. And the Court takes especial note of the suggestion made by the Colorado Court of Appeals, in comparing those cases, that the state agencies found the message Jack requested “offensive [in] nature.” Ante, at 16 (internal quotation marks omitted). As the Court states, a “principled rationale for the difference in treatment” cannot be “based on the government’s own assessment of offensiveness.” Ibid.

Page 4

Colorado can treat a baker who discriminates based on sexual orientation differently from a baker who does not discriminate on that or any other prohibited ground. But only, as the Court rightly says, if the State’s decisions are not infected by religious hostility or bias. I accordingly concur.

********

So what I'm reading here is what looks like a punt back to Colorado to retool their language and handling of the Christian baker.

But what has Kagan (the uber-liberal, remember) really said and laid down in concrete with respect to "the message" to Colorado and the baker? Kagan said "you will be nice to Christians and respectful, and considerate of their beliefs of conscience." And "no government may make the determination what is considered offensive to a person of faith". And "no government can punish a person of faith in the marketplace using hostility towards their religion or bias". Egads! :eek-52: A LIBERAL championed religious freedoms???

What I'm reading between the lines is, at least from Kagan, that she is sending a message "down below" that state or local governments cannot launch attacks or punitive measures on people of faith based on those people's legitimate rejection of participating in an act that would make them abdicate their faith.

More simply put, even the ,most liberal blue Justice on the Court just right of Ginsburg said "people of faith in business can object to participation in gay weddings without punishment. They must be respected as such and left the fuck alone".

Discuss.
 
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I think Keegan was always a libertarian, but she has thrown bones to the collectivist agenda as payback for her appointment. I think she will side with liberty much more in the future.

Kennedy (the only libertarian on the Court) has a great deal of influence on the other justices.
 
I think Keegan was always a libertarian, but she has thrown bones to the collectivist agenda as payback for her appointment. I think she will side with liberty much more in the future.

Kennedy (the only libertarian on the Court) has a great deal of influence on the other justices.
Ginsberg is too old to be a greeter at Walmart.
 
I think Keegan was always a libertarian, but she has thrown bones to the collectivist agenda as payback for her appointment. I think she will side with liberty much more in the future.

Kennedy (the only libertarian on the Court) has a great deal of influence on the other justices.
Think so? Or does Kagan smell an impeachment looming for Ginsburg for openly declaring bias before she sat on Obergefell....as could be construed Kagan did also (both were performing gay weddings openly as the case made its way to their Court, knowing the issue was hotly divided in the American public. Ginsburg gave a public interview a month before the hearing to a hotly divided public saying "I think America is ready for gay marriage"...you know, even with the majority hotly objecting..!!!)

Perhaps Kagan likes her paycheck? Just saying...

I sure hope the judge in the pending Dumont vs Lyon (Michigan lesbian adoption lawsuit) doesn't give a public interview right now saying "I think American orphans are ready to be forced into homes where a marriage contract guarantees them no father or mother for life" He'd be impeached so fast it would make your head spin. And if he wasn't and found for the lesbians, the case could be overturned citing Caperton v A.T. Massy Coal 2009.
 
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I think Keegan was always a libertarian, but she has thrown bones to the collectivist agenda as payback for her appointment. I think she will side with liberty much more in the future.

Kennedy (the only libertarian on the Court) has a great deal of influence on the other justices.
Think so? Or does Kagan smell an impeachment looming for Ginsburg for openly declaring bias before she sat on Obergefell....as could be construed Kagan did also (both were performing gay weddings openly as the case made its way to their Court, knowing the issue was hotly divided in the American public. Ginsburg gave a public interview a month before the hearing to a hotly divided public saying "I think America is ready for gay marriage"...you know, even with the majority hotly objecting..!!!)

Perhaps Kagan likes her paycheck? Just saying...
She won't be impeached. No way in hell.

I don't think this decision was her trying to suck up to the do-nothing GOP.

Maybe I am naively hoping that more people than Kennedy are liberty minded.
 
She won't be impeached. No way in hell.

I don't think this decision was her trying to suck up to the do-nothing GOP.

Maybe I am naively hoping that more people than Kennedy are liberty minded.

I don't think Kagan will be impeached either. But I do think Ginsburg will be. Her hubris and violation of her Oath are unforgivable in Obergefell.
 
Ginsberg is too old to be a greeter at Walmart.
By the way mudwhistle, I've been meaning to compliment you on your outhouse "blue wave" insert. In this Court decision though, it looks like two or three flew over the outhouse.. lol
 
Kennedy wrote the Opinion on behalf of the Court. He's a middle grounder.

Kagan and Breyer however are steeped liberals. They're just barely to the right of Ginsburg. So their opinions are a bit more deserving of the microscope in this situation because as future challenges check back in with this case, they must acknowledge that even the liberal opinion concurs.

Kagan wrote this but Breyer concurred. https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/17pdf/16-111_j4el.pdf
On what would be the next page after page 18 on the Opinion of the Court written by Kennedy.

********
Pages 1-2

It is a general rule that [religious and philosophical] objections do not allow business owners and other actors in the economy and in society to deny protected persons equal access to goods and services under a neutral and generally applicable public accommodations law.” Ante, at 9. But in upholding that principle, state actors cannot show hostility to religious views; rather, they must give those views “neutral and respectful consideration.” Ante, at 12. I join the Court’s opinion in full because I believe the Colorado Civil Rights Commission did not satisfy that obligation. I write separately to elaborate on one of the bases for the Court’s holding.

The Court partly relies on the “disparate consideration of Phillips’ case compared to the cases of [three] other bakers” who “objected to a requested cake on the basis of conscience.” Ante, at 14, 18. In the latter cases, a customer named William Jack sought “cakes with images that conveyed disapproval of same-sex marriage, along with religious text”; the bakers whom he approached refused to make them. Ante, at 15; see post, at 3 (GINSBURG, J., dissenting) (further describing the requested cakes). Those bakers prevailed before the Colorado Civil Rights Division and Commission, while Phillips—who objected for religious reasons to baking a wedding cake for a same-sex couple—did not. The Court finds that the legal reasoning of the state agencies differed in significant ways as between the Jack cases and the Phillips case. See ante, at 15. And the Court takes especial note of the suggestion made by the Colorado Court of Appeals, in comparing those cases, that the state agencies found the message Jack requested “offensive [in] nature.” Ante, at 16 (internal quotation marks omitted). As the Court states, a “principled rationale for the difference in treatment” cannot be “based on the government’s own assessment of offensiveness.” Ibid.

Page 4

Colorado can treat a baker who discriminates based on sexual orientation differently from a baker who does not discriminate on that or any other prohibited ground. But only, as the Court rightly says, if the State’s decisions are not infected by religious hostility or bias. I accordingly concur.

********

So what I'm reading here is what looks like a punt back to Colorado to retool their language and handling of the Christian baker.

But what has Kagan (the uber-liberal, remember) really said and laid down in concrete with respect to "the message" to Colorado and the baker? Kagan said "you will be nice to Christians and respectful, and considerate of their beliefs of conscience." And "no government may make the determination what is considered offensive to a person of faith". And "no government can punish a person of faith in the marketplace using hostility towards their religion or bias". Egads! :eek-52: A LIBERAL championed religious freedoms???

What I'm reading between the lines is, at least from Kagan, that she is sending a message "down below" that state or local governments cannot launch attacks or punitive measures on people of faith based on those people's legitimate rejection of participating in an act that would make them abdicate their faith.

More simply put, even the ,most liberal blue Justice on the Court just right of Ginsburg said "people of faith in business can object to participation in gay weddings without punishment. They must be respected as such and left the fuck alone".

Discuss.

Gays lost big time because it was a 7-2 decision. Put gays back in the closet where they belong.
 
Sil has been claiming for years that Ginsberg’s impeachment is imminent as a result of gay marriage. :lol:
 
Gays lost big time because it was a 7-2 decision. Put gays back in the closet where they belong.

More like put their cult-aggression and hostility and planned-sabotage against people of faith back in the closet where it belongs. Besides, nobody's sexuality belongs anywhere outside their bedroom. Certainly not down main street, graphic, and right in front of kids, done soberly and with "pride". Period.
 
Sil has been claiming for years that Ginsberg’s impeachment is imminent as a result of gay marriage. :lol:
Yeah, silly of me to suggest that a US Supreme Court Justice should be reprimanded for openly declaring irrefutably clear and potent bias before a hotly divided America public on a case that was due in her Courtroom in a month.

Just ridiculous. I know.
 
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Sil has been claiming for years that Ginsberg’s impeachment is imminent as a result of gay marriage. :lol:
Yeah, silly of me to suggest that a US Supreme Court Justice should be reprimanded for openly declaring bias before a hotly divided America public on a case that was due in her Courtroom in a month.

Just ridiculous. I know.

She is allowed to give her opinion just like any other American. She isn’t going to be impeached. Get over it.
 
She is allowed to give her opinion just like any other American. She isn’t going to be impeached. Get over it.

NOT A FEW WEEKS BEFORE A CASE IS IN HER COURT SHE ISN'T! You seriously need a reality check bro. A decorum of impartiality in a US Supreme Court Justice isn't an elective. lt is a mandatory edict of Office and of the Oath she swore. She herself agreed in 2009 in Caperton v A.T. Massey Coal.

In that interview in early 2015 she gave her verdict, not just her opinion, weeks before the Obergefell Hearing. You may not be familiar with how courts work so I'll educate you; no judge is allowed to pass a verdict before hearing the facts argued at the hearing or trial.

lt would be like if you were arrested on suspicion of embezzling and three weeks before your trial, the sitting judge gave an interview to your public TV station that he felt already that you were guilty. I mean Jesus H. Christ. Who do you think you're fooling with your bullshit spins on stuff? Surely there must be a limit even for you?
 
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She is allowed to give her opinion just like any other American. She isn’t going to be impeached. Get over it.

NOT A FEW WEEKS BEFORE A CASE IS IN HER COURT SHE ISN'T! You seriously need a reality check bro. A decorum of impartiality in a US Supreme Court Justice isn't an elective. lt is a mandatory edict of Office and of the Oath she swore. She herself agreed in 2009 in Caperton v A.T. Massey Coal

You’ve been claiming she is going to be impeached for the last three years now and I need reality check. Too funny.

Caperton dealt with elected jurists receiving campaign funds and the bias that could arise as a result. Justice of the Supreme Court do not run for election nor receive campaign contributions. You’re throwing legal shit against the wall again. In short, what you always do.
 
It's simple mdk. If Ginsburg was a municipal court judge sitting on a case where you were arrested for embezzling, and she went on public TV talking about your case three weeks before your trial saying she thought you were guilty, then presided over your trial & pronounced you guilty, you would have grounds to overturn that verdict instantly and have her punished or removed from the bench.

Every single person reading this post knows it's true, including you.
 
a small drop of sanity in a insane world. but i thought the baker will lose. im positive surprised but not shocked because shocked sounds negative.
 
a small drop of sanity in a insane world. but i thought the baker will lose. im positive surprised but not shocked because shocked sounds negative.
OK, thanks for parsing out those words for us.

I think it's more like a refreshing waterfall of sanity in an insane world because of the impact of the 7-2 verdict and the fact that the language of the Opinion says that gays have to let business owners opt out of participating in their 'marriages' for reasons of moral objection to that lifestyle they disagree with strongly. That's more than a small drop. That's a washout. And it's the first sign of Justices recognizing that LGBT is a lifestyle and not an innate thing all people have to pander to and promote.

That's what happens when the judicial system suddenly wakes up and parses out the difference between "innate" and "behavioral"....especially when it comes to 1st Amendment protections for another lifestyle in direct conflict with perverted sex addicts: edicts of sublime faith and spirituality.
 
a small drop of sanity in a insane world. but i thought the baker will lose. im positive surprised but not shocked because shocked sounds negative.
OK, thanks for parsing out those words for us.

I think it's more like a refreshing waterfall of sanity in an insane world because of the impact of the 7-2 verdict and the fact that the language of the Opinion says that gays have to let business owners opt out of participating in their 'marriages' for reasons of moral objection to that lifestyle they disagree with strongly. That's more than a small drop. That's a washout. And it's the first sign of Justices recognizing that LGBT is a lifestyle and not an innate thing all people have to pander to and promote.

That's what happens when the judicial system suddenly wakes up and parses out the difference between "innate" and "behavioral"....

True
 
Well mdk ? If a judge in your criminal trial pronounced you guilty in a TV interview weeks before she presided on your trial & then found you guilty without recusing herself, would you have at least a running shot at an appeal?

I'd like you to answer that actually. :popcorn:
 

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