Lakota break away from US

[Lookout]

Shogun calls out to the crowd for reenforcemet

 

[Larkinn]

Might makes right. Always has, aways will.
If you have ever thought otherwise, you're simply deluding yourself.
(Not that that's not obvious)

So you think it was right for the Nazis to kill the Jews, and America to keep blacks as slaves for hundreds of years then?

Nice moral compass you got there.

 

[Shogun]

Sure it's completel legal to withdraw from treaties with the US. I believe there were some Southern states that legally, had every right to withdraw from the Union.

How'd that work out?

Kath took the words right out of my mouth. the Lakota never signed up for the Union. They are no more grandfathered into it than the pals were considered part of the british empire.

 

[Lookout]

It looks as though m-14 may have had enough. both contenders seam weary and look like they are beginning to tire

 

[Shogun]

Gunny there is a difference. The US Government never dealt with the Confederacy as a legitimate government. They did the Lakota and other Native American nations. At no time did Lincoln acknowledge the Confederacy.

Kathianne is my vote for User of the Day. I know she doesn't agree with the premise of my argument here but at least I can see her wrestling with the issue instead of sewing a Scarlet A onto my sleeve.


BRAVO, Kath, bravo.

 

[Lookout]

Larkin from the second row throws a chair in the ring. M-14 is looking at the chair as new weapon but cant gather the strength to pick it up

 

[Larkinn]

All a government ever does is use force.

Really?

The US Post office is run by force?

 

[Lookout]

Larkin yells at m-14 to pick it up and continue the fight. We have to break for a commercial but stay tuned, this isn't over yet

 

[Shogun]

There is no difference in regard to any of the states or any parts thereof trying to seceed from the Union. All of the land the Lakota are claiming has already been claimed by the US government and every time Native Americans have attempted uprising they have been put down.

As evidenced by the kook who supposedly renounced his citizenship and joined the Taliban, the US apparently does not recognize such. If Means and his crew push too hard they'll just find themselves on trial for sedition in Federal Court.

The TALABAN is NOT the Lakota, dude. The TALABAN doesn't hve 10k years of an ANCIENT CLAIM to North AM. The Lakota are NOT part of the Union. They are not bound to play by the same rules that allowed the North to deny the South's parting. Indeed, quite a conundrum, eh?


Now, with all that in mind, to what lengths are you willing to go in order to keep the Lakota from carving out a nation from the guts of 5 states? What will it take to make you recognize their right to a sovereign nation? Would you fathom military action AGAINST civilian Lakota in order to maintain your claim to this land? Is 10k years of historic record as viable as 5k years in the mid east?

 

[Gunny]

Kath took the words right out of my mouth. the Lakota never signed up for the Union. They are no more grandfathered into it than the pals were considered part of the british empire.

As I pointed out, it doesn't matter WHAT they signed up for, and YOU know it. The US has claimed the land, and they'll keep it. Te Lakota didn't have to sign anything anyway.

We have this same argument in regard to Palestine. When you lose, you and your proerty are at the mercy of the victor. Until post WW II, that's just the way the world operated and no one's going to start giving anything back now. Carter's been out of office since 1980.

 

[Shogun]

Shogun calls out to the crowd for reenforcemet

HA!

that shit is cracking me up!

You should change your av to Micheal Buffer!

 

[Annie]

Kath took the words right out of my mouth. the Lakota never signed up for the Union. They are no more grandfathered into it than the pals were considered part of the british empire.

Hey, I'll go along with the Lakota, leave me out with the palis.

 

[Larkinn]

Just curious...does anyone have an actual understanding of American Indian law? I know that they are semi-autonomous and do NOT have the same relationship with the federal government as states do. They also have their own laws/police force/etc, etc. However, they do fall under federal law but AFAIK the states have no power over them, even when they reside in the territory of a state.

 

[Gunny]

The TALABAN is NOT the Lakota, dude. The TALABAN doesn't hve 10k years of an ANCIENT CLAIM to North AM. The Lakota are NOT part of the Union. They are not bound to play by the same rules that allowed the North to deny the South's parting. Indeed, quite a conundrum, eh?


Now, with all that in mind, to what lengths are you willing to go in order to keep the Lakota from carving out a nation from the guts of 5 states? What will it take to make you recognize their right to a sovereign nation? Would you fathom military action AGAINST civilian Lakota in order to maintain your claim to this land? Is 10k years of historic record as viable as 5k years in the mid east?

That "ancient claim" and $1.29 will get you a coffee at the convenience store. My point about the Taliban was merely concerning the dude that claimed he renounced his citizenship. Nothing more. I made no comparison between the Taliban and the Lakota.

You aren't listening. Yes, they ARE bound to play by the same rules as the South trying to leave. In 1860, NO law precluded any or all states from leaving a union they voluntarily joined as an "experiment." The US's use of force to keep the South in the Union was at that time unconstitutional.

You know as well as I do that if push comes to shove, the US will send troops in just as they've done in the past, and clean house.

 

[Shogun]

As I pointed out, it doesn't matter WHAT they signed up for, and YOU know it. The US has claimed the land, and they'll keep it. Te Lakota didn't have to sign anything anyway.

We have this same argument in regard to Palestine. When you lose, you and your proerty are at the mercy of the victor. Until post WW II, that's just the way the world operated and no one's going to start giving anything back now. Carter's been out of office since 1980.

So then you have no problem accepting Atzlan as long as they have enough fire power to repel the US military? This might makes right arguement is kinda silly. And yes, 150 + years of warring with the natives, making a mere 50 in israel tiny in comparison, indicates that it's not just a matter of whose got the bigger guns.

The US didn't just CLAIM the land, Gunny. France sold it after just CLAIMING the land. Didn't I shoot a similar analogy your way regarding me squatting on your personal yard the other day? Are you telling me that If I have enough weaponry to force your compliance then IM the one in theright?

No, Gunny, this isn't a simple matter of who has the bigger military balls. the Natives and the Pals didn't come a looking for this conflict and planting a flag with one hand while holding a gun in the other is not a valid claim in this western nation of LAWS. You know, LAWS like how we make and break TREATIES? If we can ignore the treaties we've made then why can't everyone else ignore the treaties that WE champion?

 

[Gunny]

Just curious...does anyone have an actual understanding of American Indian law? I know that they are semi-autonomous and do NOT have the same relationship with the federal government as states do. They also have their own laws/police force/etc, etc. However, they do fall under federal law but AFAIK the states have no power over them, even when they reside in the territory of a state.

That is correct insofar as the states having no authority over them. They live on Federal reservations and answer to the Federal government.

 

[Shogun]

Hey, I'll go along with the Lakota, leave me out with the palis.

It's the same arguement. Even if it chaffes your loyalty to israel.

 

[Annie]

It's the same arguement. Even if it chaffes your loyalty to israel.

Only in your world. That's why you are not respected. If you want to mod, you got to get with reasoning, IMO. Of course, Scooter has a different parameter, so maybe you are cool in any case.

 

[Shogun]

That "ancient claim" and $1.29 will get you a coffee at the convenience store. My point about the Taliban was merely concerning the dude that claimed he renounced his citizenship. Nothing more. I made no comparison between the Taliban and the Lakota.

You aren't listening. Yes, they ARE bound to play by the same rules as the South trying to leave. In 1860, NO law precluded any or all states from leaving a union they voluntarily joined as an "experiment." The US's use of force to keep the South in the Union was at that time unconstitutional.

You know as well as I do that if push comes to shove, the US will send troops in just as they've done in the past, and clean house.

Oh, you mean like that ancient claim of the Jews to Israel? NOW it's not worth anything? How to you come to that conclusion, Gunny? Se sure to let me know why Natives and their 10k years and historic evidence is less moving to you than the 5k jewish claim.

Show me where the Constitution applies to NON-STATES. show me how any state was involuntarily drafted into the union. THE LAKOTA ARE NOT A STATE. THEY ARE NOT PART OF THE UNION. IF THEY WERE THERE WOULD HAVE BEEN NO TREATIES IN THE 150 YEARS OF WARRING WITH THEM AS A RECOGNIZED TRIBAL NATION.


Sure, the troops will go in and kill. Shall I extend this question further to ask what is different about death from US Troops rebuking a historic claimi to a homeland in the US and the very same thing against jews in israel? AGAINST CIVILIAN LAKOTAS, even? Is Palestine RIGHT then if they muster the muslim nations and FORCE the jews out of Israel?

 

[Lookout]

Hey sport fans, welcome back again to the Friday night fights. This match has taken a drastic turn of events. Just before comercial break, m-14 walked out of the ring and no one knows where he went. Gunnyl and shogun are exchanging words while the heckler in the second row is egging them on. We could be here all night, I think I need some popcorn.