Kevin Tillman... Take It As You See Fit

Discussion in 'Middle East - General' started by NATO AIR, Oct 21, 2006.

  1. NATO AIR
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    NATO AIR Senior Member

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    Reactions? Remember he signed up to kill Taliban & Al-Qaeda...
    not to fight in Iraq which hadn't happened at the time of their enlistment.

     
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  2. USMCDevilDog
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    USMCDevilDog Member

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    Very well written. Though I don't support some things in that writing it is still a very good writing by a fellow military man.
     
  3. onedomino
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    onedomino SCE to AUX

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    Man overboard! NATO, I could not disagree more with your recent posts. The article posted above reads like the kind of twisted crap one finds published in Le Monde. I am not going to dispute the outrageous tripe written by Kevin Tillman, who wears sympathy for his brother like a political campaign button. It is, however, interesting to observe that in an article where he shits all over the "illegal invasion" of Iraq, Kevin Tillman reminds us that he is Pat Tillman's brother, but somehow fails to recall for his readers that Pat Tillman was killed in Afghanistan. It sucks ass when someone uses sympathy for another, not to educate with fact, but rather to bloviate a political agenda. He uses his dead brother (how do we know what Pat's views on Iraq would be?) as a crutch because he does not have the strength to let his own arguments rise or fall as they may. I would say that Kevin Tillman has dishonored the memory of his brother, if not for the fact that nothing, not even political excrement, could ever dishonor Pat's sacrifice.
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  4. trobinett
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    trobinett Senior Member

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    Wow, great post onedomino.

    Kinda nailed his hide to the ground, not much wiggle room there!

    They don't make many like Pat Tillman anymore.:rock:
     
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  5. Annie
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    Annie Diamond Member

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    I can understand a brother being very upset by his brother's death, especially in light to the way his brother died. However, that doesn't make his 'points' anymore factual than those found on DU, etc.


     
  6. NATO AIR
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    NATO AIR Senior Member

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    According to an assortment of documents he wrote himself and from statements made to numerous family members, Pat Tillman was against the Iraq War and a critic of Pres. Bush.

    http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2005/09/25/MNGD7ETMNM1.DTL

    The above article also references the combat service of Pat & Kevin in both Iraq & Afghanistan. Color me unimpressed with any attempts to label Kevin or Pat a pinko. These were and continue to be rational criticisms founded in personal experience and passionate belief. Whether I agree with them or not is not the issue, I respect the sacrifice they made and after the hell this family has gone through with the Army lying every step of the way about what happened to their fallen son, I have that MUCH MORE respect for what he's saying.

    Given the fact that we are losing (by our own definitions, please for God's sake stop reading delusional rags like NRO & the Weekly Standard and listen to both the military and the respectable news outlets like the Wall Street Journal that are being realistic about the challenges we face) in both Afghanistan & Iraq, that we've just signed into law dubious legislation of questionable worth and value regarding what can be done to US citizens in violation of the most basic tenets of the US Constitution, that we continue to be utterly unserious about fighting and succeeding in the wars we are in and the challenges we face, I'm sorry if my recent posts seem negative.

    If so, hey, my bad, I'm just accepting the truth and trying to offer some ideas and different perspective.

    For example, I post Lind's letter to Gen. Jim Jones about how to fight a better war in Afghanistan, I know Lind knows what he's talking about because we continue to bomb houses with innocent people in them far too often on the word of an informer who we're paying for obviously dubious information. Because our NATO allies are not serious about securing Afghanistan, because Pakistan plays a deadly double game with us on the border regions where the Taliban and Al-Qaeda are recovering, and because we lack both a basic cultural and geographical understanding of Afghanistan, let alone Iraq.

    You seem to think this is giving up on Afghanistan & Iraq. Its not, its being realistic about the precarious situations we are in. WE ARE LOSING. REPEAT.. WE ARE FUCKING LOSING. Its a harsh truth, but its there. In the facts, in the numbers, on the ground. LOSING!

    So we have to respond to this emergency by not cutting and running or blindly following useless strategy & tactics, but recognizing things like (a) sitting down and talking seriously with Syria & Iran about shutting the Iraqi border and cooling it down, before the millions of refugees fleeing the violence stream across the borders into these countries and others and destablize them and (b) realizing we have no option but to co-opt the majority ethnic group in Afghanistan, the Pashtuns, away from the Taliban.

    Ignoring these realities and indeed mindlessly criticising them is only going to lose the wars even worse than they are being lost now.
     
  7. jillian
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    jillian Princess Supporting Member

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    No? It was about "imminent risk"... that reason turned out to be wrong, so they went to the next...

    Which part of the statement isn't true? we already know that we have secret prisons; that people are being "detained" without attorneys, without charges, without trial. Just because we call them "illegal combatants" doesn't mean they are... it means someone decided they are and they can't challenge the assertion.

    Where did he say that? He was saying that it's not going to protect them when they're attacked. I think he means supporting the troops means not getting them blown up for nebulous reasons.

    You not hear Bush's speech this morning? He said: we can't get out of Iraq because a lot of people have already died. I'd say that's pretty close to what Tillman's brother said. No?

    Could be because this situation is as messed up as that one was.

    Nope... he's just saying the chicken hawks, like the one who got 5 deferrments from service in Vietnam are the ones who are being so cavalier in their decisions.

    If the shoe fits.

    Ditto....

    you mean Haliburton hasn't profited? Or is war profiteering ok by you?

    Oh... I dunno... perhaps starting with the latest state department reports? I'd say the new figures are high... but the 10's of thousands things is a bare minimum we can all agree on, no?

    Uh, yeah... right.

    You mean Bush's Congress and Bush's Court? RAFLMAO!

    Apparently you haven't read that little gem of a bill passed a couple of weeks ago where the pres gets to decide what torture is and who it can be used against?

    Somehow American leadership managed to create a more dangerous world.
    Because your opinion doesn't concur?

    Except that now we have no international credibility. You can decide you don't care about it, but it's fact.

    If you ask the average person, they have no clue what's going on. It's only a small percentage of us who follow these things closely. (and by us, I'm not referring to any particular "side", but to the politics junkies).

    I think I'll go with his definitions. ;)

    Oh my... where'd he say that?

     

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