Justifiable Homicide

[editec]

Hypothetical question.

What could somebody do that would justify you (personally) killing them?

The assumptions for this hypothetical question are
1) that you have absolute proof they did it,
2) you have absolute immunity for your actions,
3) you are the sole deliverer of punishment (courts are not involved)

Would you kill somebody?, And what crime would warrant this action?

Just curious.

Perhaps, given those circumstances if they wouldn't leggo my Eggo.

Seriously. though...

I doubt I could easily kill anyone in cold blood.

I actually do believe that murdering people is evil, even if those people are truly evil.

I think killing people contaminates your soul and is to be avoided whenever possible. (and if you live right, it's almost ALWAYS possible)

But in hot blood?

Now, that's an entirely different matter.

Many's the man or woman currently rotting in jail that let their "righteous anger" make fools of them.

 

[RodISHI]

I think killing people contaminates your soul and is to be avoided whenever possible. (and if you live right, it's almost ALWAYS possible)

You have a very good point here editec. In my early twenties a potential rapist had entered into my bedroom one early morning. The young man had came home with my younger cousin whom lived in the apartment next to mine.

I awoke to this stranger in my bedroom standing at the foot of my bed. He said, "Coffee, tea or me?" I asked him what are you doing in my house? How did you get in here? He repeated his "coffee tea or me" bs. I told him he did not have anything I wanted. Get out now!

Before I can say anymore he was atop of me telling me he knew I wantd him. Pinned underneath this guy I asked him over and over again to please get off of me and out of my house. At the point he said he was going to rape me I reached to the side of my mattress where I kept a 357 my dad had lent me. As I wrapped my fingers around the pistol grip I continued to plead with this guy to please leave. I told him he really did not want to do this. He told me yes he did.

During all of this drama I kept thinking, "Thou shalt not kill" over and over in my mind.

The end of the matter came when I pulled the gun up from the side of the mattress and held the gun to his head telling him, "Get off of me or I will blow your ass away."

At the point I had determined I had no other choice the young man flew off of me and landed six feet away from the foot of my bed standing on his feet upright.

As he stood there shaking he told me he was just kidding. I told him you do not kid people in such away. Rape was no joke to me.

I had forgot the incident until several years later. The young man approached me on a sidewalk in a town near where we lived. He said, "Do you remember me?" I was a bit agitated as I said yes (thinking to myself oh this dumb shit again). He said, "I have something I want to share with you. Could I please just show you something very special?" I must have looked relunctant. He said, "please just a few minutes of your time?" I relented. He went into a small resturant and returned to where I was on the sidewalk. He had a little girl in his arms. He introduced me to his little girl. She was a beautiful little girl. He said, "You saved me." I told him no God saved you. I was going to shoot you.

It would be another twenty years before I considered what all happened back in those days. After recalling the whole incident it occured to me people cannot move like that young man moved off of me on that day way back when. God had saved us both. He saved me from breaking His commandment and the young man from death. In all of that a beautiful young girl was born.

 

[Care4all]

I think...other than self defense or in the defense of another human being about to be killed or irreparably harmed, killing another human being is not justifiable.

Care

 

[Care4all]

You have a very good point here editec. In my early twenties a potential rapist had entered into my bedroom one early morning. The young man had came home with my younger cousin whom lived in the apartment next to mine.

I awoke to this stranger in my bedroom standing at the foot of my bed. He said, "Coffee, tea or me?" I asked him what are you doing in my house? How did you get in here? He repeated his "coffee tea or me" bs. I told him he did not have anything I wanted. Get out now!

Before I can say anymore he was atop of me telling me he knew I wantd him. Pinned underneath this guy I asked him over and over again to please get off of me and out of my house. At the point he said he was going to rape me I reached to the side of my mattress where I kept a 357 my dad had lent me. As I wrapped my fingers around the pistol grip I continued to plead with this guy to please leave. I told him he really did not want to do this. He told me yes he did.

During all of this drama I kept thinking, "Thou shalt not kill" over and over in my mind.

The end of the matter came when I pulled the gun up from the side of the mattress and held the gun to his head telling him, "Get off of me or I will blow your ass away."

At the point I had determined I had no other choice the young man flew off of me and landed six feet away from the foot of my bed standing on his feet upright.

As he stood there shaking he told me he was just kidding. I told him you do not kid people in such away. Rape was no joke to me.

I had forgot the incident until several years later. The young man approached me on a sidewalk in a town near where we lived. He said, "Do you remember me?" I was a bit agitated as I said yes (thinking to myself oh this dumb shit again). He said, "I have something I want to share with you. Could I please just show you something very special?" I must have looked relunctant. He said, "please just a few minutes of your time?" I relented. He went into a small resturant and returned to where I was on the sidewalk. He had a little girl in his arms. He introduced me to his little girl. She was a beautiful little girl. He said, "You saved me." I told him no God saved you. I was going to shoot you.

It would be another twenty years before I considered what all happened back in those days. After recalling the whole incident it occured to me people cannot move like that young man moved off of me on that day way back when. God had saved us both. He saved me from breaking His commandment and the young man from death. In all of that a beautiful young girl was born.

God works in mysterious ways....

 

[RodISHI]

God works in mysterious ways....

That He does and He saves us from ourselves even.

 

[DiamondDave]

This could be the commandment breaker for me also on "Thou shalt not kill".

"Thou shalt not kill" i snot in the commandments... "Thou shalt not MURDER" is... big difference

If someone molests or kills or causes serious harm to my kids... I'll go to the electric chair smiling as I would kill to protect them

If thrust into a situation where I see someone killing innocents and I had the ability to kill the person to end that situation, I would kill them in a heartbeat

If I am thrust back into military service again, I would certainly do everything in my power to eliminate the enemy

But just saying that I have the opportunity to kill, without threat of prosecution, etc for something outside of protecting my family or immediately protecting others or doing my military duty, I really don't see any reason why I would just go kill... even if I thought it was justice... even though someone closer to the situation might feel or believe otherwise

 

[editec]

"Thou shalt not kill" i snot in the commandments... "Thou shalt not MURDER" is... big difference

True.

If someone molests or kills or causes serious harm to my kids... I'll go to the electric chair smiling as I would kill to protect them

Smiling? Knowing that you're leaving your kids alone to fend for themsevles? You didn't mean that, of course.

If thrust into a situation where I see someone killing innocents and I had the ability to kill the person to end that situation, I would kill them in a heartbeat

A noble enough sentiment.

If I am thrust back into military service again, I would certainly do everything in my power to eliminate the enemy

Thanks goodness enough people agree. Otherwise there'd be no wars.

But just saying that I have the opportunity to kill, without threat of prosecution, etc for something outside of protecting my family or immediately protecting others or doing my military duty, I really don't see any reason why I would just go kill... even if I thought it was justice... even though someone closer to the situation might feel or believe otherwise

Very sensible.

I don't doubt that some people deserve to die.

I just doubt that I deserve to be the person who has to kill them.

Cold blooded murder is not hot blooded murder, folks.

We can all understand defending ourselves or our loved ones by any means possible.

But the question isn't about that, it's about extracting revenge or possibly seeking to be the hand of justice that kills in cold blood.

Big BIG difference.

 

[KittenKoder]

Well, that's quite the interesting fact then.
I'm surprised that I've never heard it before.

It's one that you will only learn of if you have a reason.

 

[KittenKoder]

"Thou shalt not kill" i snot in the commandments... "Thou shalt not MURDER" is... big difference

LOLOLOLOL Yeah ... different translations of the bible don't really exist ... sure. The King James originally said "Thou shalt not kill."

Ten Commandments - King James Version

Which is the oldest and least tainted version.

 

[AllieBaba]

However the correct translation is "Thou Shalt Not Murder".

 

[AllieBaba]

One of the wonderful things about having experts in the original ancient languages and having the technology to share the knowledge.

 

[AllieBaba]

"A growing number of scholars now agree that this term for killing in Hebrew that is used in the Ten Commandments is never used in Hebrew Scripture to refer to the type of killing that takes place in a war.

Hebrew language scholars agree that killing in war is different and not covered by this use of the phrase "to kill." If one soldier is angry with another from his or her same army and shoots him or her, even in a battle, it would still be murder. However, to kill an enemy in the context of a "just" war is not directly covered in this passage."

Thou Shalt Not Kill - Translation of the phrase, An assault against god

That being said, the only justification for a civilian to kill is self defense (or, as an extension, the defense of another). You don't have to kill someone if you aren't afraid of dying yourself. The rest is just arrogant b.s. and I find it rather interesting that ppl will argue for murder as population control (I'm assuming they are the judges of who should die and who should not, and it doesn't include themselves), or a crime deemed heinous by themselves.

I see lots of "I'd murder a child molester or rapist" but given the nature of people and the rampant gossip and nastiness that goes on, I'm intrigued by the fact that there are so many who think they have the capability to determine truth and then the willingness to deal out whatever punishment they, personally, deign to.

Unless you are in danger or a loved one is, there's no place for murder in our society.

 

[Care4all]

"A growing number of scholars now agree that this term for killing in Hebrew that is used in the Ten Commandments is never used in Hebrew Scripture to refer to the type of killing that takes place in a war.

Hebrew language scholars agree that killing in war is different and not covered by this use of the phrase "to kill." If one soldier is angry with another from his or her same army and shoots him or her, even in a battle, it would still be murder. However, to kill an enemy in the context of a "just" war is not directly covered in this passage."

Thou Shalt Not Kill - Translation of the phrase, An assault against god

That being said, the only justification for a civilian to kill is self defense (or, as an extension, the defense of another). You don't have to kill someone if you aren't afraid of dying yourself. The rest is just arrogant b.s. and I find it rather interesting that ppl will argue for murder as population control (I'm assuming they are the judges of who should die and who should not, and it doesn't include themselves), or a crime deemed heinous by themselves.

I see lots of "I'd murder a child molester or rapist" but given the nature of people and the rampant gossip and nastiness that goes on, I'm intrigued by the fact that there are so many who think they have the capability to determine truth and then the willingness to deal out whatever punishment they, personally, deign to.

Unless you are in danger or a loved one is, there's no place for murder in our society.

Interesting stuff! Thank you allie!

Just War Theory would fall in to play, as you indicated, on the killing done in war, as well.

care

 

[KittenKoder]

However the correct translation is "Thou Shalt Not Murder".

So then, you have a christian bible that's OLDER than the King James ... really? You should sell it on Ebay since scientists would pay a fortune to be able to see where it all started. You don't know the original language that book was written in so shut up already.

 

[AllieBaba]

You're a complete idiot. I'm not even responding to that because it's such a stupid post, and everyone knows it.

 

[del]

So then, you have a christian bible that's OLDER than the King James ... really? You should sell it on Ebay since scientists would pay a fortune to be able to see where it all started. You don't know the original language that book was written in so shut up already.

damn, you're stupid.

 

[AllieBaba]

"Indeed, "kill" in English is an all-encompassing verb that covers the taking of life in all forms and for all classes of victims. That kind of generalization is expressed in Hebrew through the verb "harag." However, the verb that appears in the Torah's prohibition is a completely different one, " ratsah" which, it would seem, should be rendered "murder." This root refers only to criminal acts of killing."
Thou Shalt Not Murder

 

[DiamondDave]

So then, you have a christian bible that's OLDER than the King James ... really? You should sell it on Ebay since scientists would pay a fortune to be able to see where it all started. You don't know the original language that book was written in so shut up already.

There are much older Bible translations, many in the more original Greek and Latin.. plus we have older written versions of the Jewish scrolls/scripture that were written in both Hebrew and Aramaic... "Thou shalt not murder" is known as the more accurate translation of the 6th commandment

You have thoroughly shown your ignorance on this subject, so I would suggest you halt your input on this...

 

[Tech_Esq]

Hypothetical question.

What could somebody do that would justify you (personally) killing them?

The assumptions for this hypothetical question are
1) that you have absolute proof they did it,
2) you have absolute immunity for your actions,
3) you are the sole deliverer of punishment (courts are not involved)

Would you kill somebody?, And what crime would warrant this action?

Just curious.

I found that I thought the rules for the use of deadly force in the Army made quite a bit of common sense to me. There might be a hypothetical I could come up with that would fall outside those parameters, but basically that would seem to cover most stuff I would kill for. As far as I can remember, it went something like:

- Self protection (if attacked/threatened with deadly force)
- Protection of another threatened or attacked with deadly force
- Attempted rape (assuming that falls outside of the above)
- Malicious destruction of (substituting "my" for government) property. Only after warning that deadly force would be used if said destruction did not cease.

 

[Tech_Esq]

LOLOLOLOL Yeah ... different translations of the bible don't really exist ... sure. The King James originally said "Thou shalt not kill."

Ten Commandments - King James Version

Which is the oldest and least tainted version.

I'll be a little kinder than the others. What they are trying to point out is the fact that the "King James" version of the bible refers to the biblical translation commissioned by King James I of England (James VI of Scotland) in the early 1600s. So, this translation is not really very old nor especially respected for its translation of ancient originals.

You are probably better of with a current translation of an older Hebrew text (as old as you can find I would suspect) or possibly an ancient Greek text if that predates the Hebrew text, than you would be referring to the King James version of the bible which, after all is a Christian text and focused more on the new testament than the old testament. That's the basic problem they are having with what you wrote.

And, just as an FYI there is a copy of the Gutenburg Bible on display in the Library of Congress (circa 1300s) the King James version wouldn't be commissioned for another 300 years after that printing.