Judge says Florida’s 15-week abortion law is unconstitutional

[SweetSue92]

This will sound stupid and sexist maybe and the abortion thing has never held much fascination to me, but 15 weeks is a long time, almost 4 months. I'm pretty sure it didn't take 15 weeks for her to spread her legs. How could she wait that long missing that many periods and the other symptoms, before figuring out, she's knocked up and not even ready to bring a baby into the world for whatever reason?
You guys are right, though. The states have to decide something, as it has been dumped back in their lap, now, because legislators didn't want to deal with it over 50 years ago and The Supremes came up with an immaculate conception of a ruling, when the legislators did nothing back then and all this time since, but politic and fund raise on it.

I mostly agree with you. But in case anyone didn't know, when you GET pg you are technically two weeks pg. Pg is dated from your last menstrual period.

So a woman misses her first period at 4 weeks pg, her second period at 8 weeks, and her third period at 12 weeks. If she has NORMAL periods, she has now missed three.

I used to myself wonder how any woman wouldn't know she was pg by, say, 10 weeks. But then I caught a few episodes of the show "I Didn't Know I Was Pregnant" (hey I watch crap TV sometimes) and unbelievably, there are women who GO INTO LABOR and don't know they are pregnant. (!) Many times they were on birth control and so their periods were off, etc etc etc.

I don't say any of this to justify abortion, btw. I'm pro-life. I'm just saying for many women it's quite possible to get to 15 weeks and not realize you're pregnant.

Honestly, rather than teach kids in school about 587 genders, I really wish we would teach them (with parental consent) more about basic biology. Here's how your body works, here's when you ovulate, here are the first signs of pregnancy, etc. Here's what emergency contraception does.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Let the states decide.

Why not let the people decide?

 

[Captain Caveman]

I mostly agree with you. But in case anyone didn't know, when you GET pg you are technically two weeks pg. Pg is dated from your last menstrual period.

So a woman misses her first period at 4 weeks pg, her second period at 8 weeks, and her third period at 12 weeks. If she has NORMAL periods, she has now missed three.

I used to myself wonder how any woman wouldn't know she was pg by, say, 10 weeks. But then I caught a few episodes of the show "I Didn't Know I Was Pregnant" (hey I watch crap TV sometimes) and unbelievably, there are women who GO INTO LABOR and don't know they are pregnant. (!) Many times they were on birth control and so their periods were off, etc etc etc.

I don't say any of this to justify abortion, btw. I'm pro-life. I'm just saying for many women it's quite possible to get to 15 weeks and not realize you're pregnant.

Honestly, rather than teach kids in school about 587 genders, I really wish we would teach them (with parental consent) more about basic biology. Here's how your body works, here's when you ovulate, here are the first signs of pregnancy, etc. Here's what emergency contraception does.

I agree with that, that's why there's a 12 week scan because the utter vast majority know well before that. The signs can be, missed period, morning sickness, and craving for ice cream or detesting coffee. You do get the rare case where someone has gone in with back pain and came out with a baby!!!
And as you say, it's basic sex education, yet some adults still struggle. The reward for not grasping basic sex education, is something that cries, needs nappies (diapers), and bottle fed. I meant a baby, not a democrat....hang on.....

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Abortions due to rape, forced pregnancy, accounts for less than 1%, it's a tiny percentage. So over 99% weren't forced to get pregnant in order for you to think they're being forced to give birth. They made a choice, and they always want to make their choice AFTER conceiving.

And it's apparently everyone else's fault that they couldn't make their choice BEFORE sex. This is why countries are in a mess with abortions, people expecting medical technology to be used as the lazy contraceptive.

It's a typical leftist strategy, give examples of one out of a million people to try and convince you of their point. They did this during the Voter-ID era they were fighting; asking what some foreigner is supposed to do that came here 50 years ago from a country that didn't provide ID's or couldn't obtain one due to war.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

I am not questions the states right to make abortion laws as long as they are constitutional both federal and state.

Most state constitutions are merely replicas of the US Constitution with some minor changes; at least ours is. Like they twisted and turned the US Constitution to make up the lie it covered abortions, it sounds like the courts did the same in Florida. So unless somebody can show me the word "abortion" in their state Constitution, then it's more BS.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

I disagree. The state did act passing an abortion law setting the time limit at 15 weeks. In response the state supreme court overturned the law because it directly violates the right to privacy in state the constitution, section 23 of the state constitution that states "Every natural person has the right to be let alone and free from governmental intrusion into the person's private life except as otherwise provided herein.”

The State really can't argue that woman has no right to privacy so they will have to come with an overriding section of the state constitution. Maybe they can but I certainly did not see it.

That right to privacy bullshit again? A woman doesn't have to put a notice in their paper she's having an abortion. If the state determines that a fetus is a human being at X amount of weeks, then aborting the fetus after that point is murder as far as the state is concerned.

In my state if some maniac kills a pregnant woman, he is charged with two murders: one of the mother and the other of her child.

 

[Jets]

Privacy clause in the Florida Constitution.
Section 23
“Every natural person has the right to be let alone and free from governmental intrusion into the person's private life except as otherwise provided herein.”

I looked at the Florida Constitution and there is nothing that would abridge a pregnant women's freedom from government intrusion. I think Pro-Choice has won this state.

Statutes & Constitution :Constitution : Online Sunshine

It seems the Florida Constitution has to be amended.

 

[EvilCat Breath]

Why not let the people decide?

Okay. Let the people in the states decide.

 

[White 6]

All abortions are not just based on a women wanting to avoid child birth. I that was the case, I agree 15 weeks is long enough. However there are other issues such health of the fetus, abnormalities, problems that would make the fetus unable to survive, and others that would necessitate a lifetime of care, and other disabilities. Next there's the health of mother. Getting conclusive tests can take time Then there's acceptance by parents and the father as well as financial issues. It takes about 6 weeks to be sure she you're pregnant. However, some women missed periods.

So, some of that info or evaluation is not available by 15 weeks? OK. I get that. People are similar to me, in that the way I hear that 15 wk number, they do to, many strongly opposed on religious/moral grounds, they fall into the category of ban all on legal/constitutional grounds, willing to let the state deal with it, in a once sized fits all solution. Some want simple answers/solutions to complex questions and quite willing to let political might, be right, voting for their own favored brand of tyranny at the hands of government, when not directed at them, and they can be with the group imposing it.
I'm one of those that figure it as a bad idea, if for simple birth control to correct irresponsible repetitive actions, but know there are situations where best, in regard to competent medical counsel to take the action and some people really should not be raising kids, as that situation also turns out bad for all around, sadly for the kid, also. I'm 67 and a guy, having no intention to pass judgement across the board on the issue, but not usually satisfied with government one size fits all solutions on personal private matters.

 

[White 6]

After the first missed period, the woman normally does a pregnancy test, which are so accurate, that if it says she's pregnant, then she's pregnant. Then (UK) she would go for a 12 week scan.

So after the first 4 to 5 weeks, she should know.

I hear ya, but see Flopper's response in post #9.

 

[Care4all]

After the first missed period, the woman normally does a pregnancy test, which are so accurate, that if it says she's pregnant, then she's pregnant. Then (UK) she would go for a 12 week scan.

So after the first 4 to 5 weeks, she should know.

Are abortions covered by your healthcare?

Here, they are not....most of these abortions are very young women, likely working hourly jobs, at a low income, many without cars even...

I think, being so new to adulthood this is likely very frightening for them...

Where can she get the money for one, where do you even get one, can she arrange the time off from work, or be able to make ends meet with missing a day or two from work, can she find a trustworthy friend to drive her to the clinic 20 miles away, a couple of times? Time to discuss with her boyfriend...does he want to have a kid, marry? Can she afford to have her child, what kind of life will it bring for them....

Sheesh! I think there could be a lot of shit going through their heads....

That being said, it seems to me that 15 weeks is a fair and ample period of figuring all those above things out.....

Also things were beginning to change with the abortion pill method, taken prior to 10 weeks or so, are now around 50% of the abortions performed.... To me, BOTH methods would be frightening, even this pill version, where the girl goes through an induced miscarriage.....

My issue, is the right to privacy..... Big government shouldn't even know the girls had sex and gotten pregnant or not, early on....she's not showing early on...?? And it's none of their bees wax to intrude, that early on...it's a personal and private matter that they shouldn't even know about at that point....

 

[Captain Caveman]

Are abortions covered by your healthcare?

Here, they are not....most of these abortions are very young women, likely working hourly jobs, at a low income, many without cars even...

I think, being so new to adulthood this is likely very frightening for them...

Where can she get the money for one, where do you even get one, can she arrange the time off from work, or be able to make ends meet with missing a day or two from work, can she find a trustworthy friend to drive her to the clinic 20 miles away, a couple of times? Time to discuss with her boyfriend...does he want to have a kid, marry? Can she afford to have her child, what kind of life will it bring for them....

Sheesh! I think there could be a lot of shit going through their heads....

That being said, it seems to me that 15 weeks is a fair and ample period of figuring all those above things out.....

Also things were beginning to change with the abortion pill method, taken prior to 10 weeks or so, are now around 50% of the abortions performed.... To me, BOTH methods would be frightening, even this pill version, where the girl goes through an induced miscarriage.....

My issue, is the right to privacy..... Big government shouldn't even know the girls had sex and gotten pregnant or not, early on....she's not showing early on...?? And it's none of their bees wax to intrude, that early on...it's a personal and private matter that they shouldn't even know about at that point....

Yes, the NHS in the UK covers abortions.

Abortion

Find out what an abortion involves, how you can get one on the NHS, and what support is available to help you make a decision.

www.nhs.uk

Do you think that those who are frightened, on low income, and don't have a car would be extra careful about getting pregnant?

 

[Flopper]

After the first missed period, the woman normally does a pregnancy test, which are so accurate, that if it says she's pregnant, then she's pregnant. Then (UK) she would go for a 12 week scan.

So after the first 4 to 5 weeks, she should know.

Maybe, maybe not. 20% to 25% of women of childbearing age have missed periods. Most do not get an abortion until about the 9th week. This is primarily do to the fact that the number of abortion clinics are decreasing and more are offering counseling. Tt takes about one to two weeks to get an appointment and there are typically 2 appointments. At the first appointment, the intake person does counseling, a pregnancy test, and takes care of insurance and payment . Usually, the procedure follows within a few days. For women that wait pasted their 2nd missed period, to make a decision, they will typically get an abortion about 13 week, end of the first trimester.

93% of abortions occur by end of first trimester, 13 weeks . An additional 6% occurred between 14 and 20 weeks of pregnancy, so having a 15 week cut off forces these women to make a premature decision for political expediency. Given another week, some women will abandon the abortion because the longer a woman waits to get an abortion the least likely they are to go through with it. Although the 15 week cutoff would still allow most abortions, there is go reason to keep the 28 week cutoff.

The 28 week cutoff would allow time for a a screening scan to be performed at 20–22 weeks to exclude any structural abnormalities indicating Downs syndrome, Trisomy 18, and some really horrible structural abnormalities, no child or mother should be forced by the state to endure these. The abortion laws that have been passed do not protect the mother or the child, only the unborn fetus which is all the prolifers have any interest in.

 

[DigitalDrifter]

In enlightened France, it's 14 weeks. I don't see liberals coming unglued about that.

 

[Cougarbear]

“In a setback for Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis and Republican lawmakers, a Florida judge has ruled that a new state law banning abortions at 15 weeks is unconstitutional and he intends to block it from taking effect on Friday.”

Judge says Florida's 15-week abortion law is unconstitutional | CNN Politics

In a setback for Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis and Republican lawmakers, a Florida judge has ruled that a new state law banning abortions at 15 weeks is unconstitutional and he intends to block it from taking effect on Friday.

www.cnn.com

The Florida supreme court is among the most partisan and corrupt in the country – likely to find a way to get around the privacy rights provision of the Florida state constitution.

But it would be interesting should the women of Florida not be forced to give birth against their will – after all, let the states decide.

The Supreme Court will step in and slam down the wicked Florida Judge. Liberals, get over it. It's the Constitutional law that allows states to decide through voting. Judges have to stop interfering now. DeSantis will have a field day with this Judge.

 

[Flopper]

Abortions due to rape, forced pregnancy, accounts for less than 1%, it's a tiny percentage. So over 99% weren't forced to get pregnant in order for you to think they're being forced to give birth. They made a choice, and they always want to make their choice AFTER conceiving.

And it's apparently everyone else's fault that they couldn't make their choice BEFORE sex. This is why countries are in a mess with abortions, people expecting medical technology to be used as the lazy contraceptive.

That tiny percentage is about 5,000 women that will be forced to carry to term the child of a rapist. However even a much smaller percentage, a fraction of a percent will be forced to carry to term, every mother's nightmare, the horribly deformed that will survive and suffer for hours or days. Like women that are being forced to carry the rapist child, these women will be forced to give birth to their nightmare. Those creating these abortions laws had no interest in protecting the mother or the child, just unborn. It is all about pollical expediency.

 

[Captain Caveman]

That tiny percentage is about 5,000 women that will be forced to carry to term the child of a rapist. However even a much smaller percentage, a fraction of a percent will be forced to carry to term, every mother's nightmare, the horribly deformed that will survive and suffer for hours or days. Like women that are being forced to carry the rapist child, these women will be forced to give birth to their nightmare. Those creating these abortions laws had no interest in protecting the mother or the child, just unborn. It is all about political expediency.

No matter the subject, the rule, the law, theres always a minority -

10 Celebrities Who Were Conceived By Rape or Bore a Child Out of Rape - Tinseltown Mom

Celebrities who were born from rape or conceived a child from rape

tinseltownmom.com

 

[Flopper]

The Supreme Court will step in and slam down the wicked Florida Judge. Liberals, get over it. It's the Constitutional law that allows states to decide through voting. Judges have to stop interfering now. DeSantis will have a field day with this Judge.

Apparently, you know nothing about how the judicial system works. The ruling by the this Florida judge will go to a state court of appeals, then the Florida Supreme Court. From there it could go into federal court system and end up the US Supreme Court. These courts will not be looking at right life or right to choose. They will be looking at the judges decision and his basis for his decision; simply stated did the state legislature violate sec 23, right of the personal privacy of the Florida State constitution by enacting this law.

If you read section 23, Every natural person has the right to be let alone and free from governmental intrusion into the person's private life except as otherwise provided herein. It's hard to imagine that making a woman's or a child's sexuality activities, methods of contraception, and choice of an abortion public knowledge would not be considered an invasion of privacy. In our society there is practically nothing that is held to be more private than this, yet it would become public record for any arrests or prosecution. However, state judges are political appointees some by the current governor but others that go back many years. So the ruling will likely be political even thou it seems cut and dry.

This case can have national importance because a few Red states pursuing strict abortion laws have privacy laws in their constitution which includes Arizona which is in the same legal fight as Florida.

States with right to privacy enshrined in their constitution - Alaska, Arizona, California, Florida, Hawaii, Illinois, Louisiana, Montana, New Hampshire, South Carolina and Washington

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Apparently, you know nothing about how the judicial system works. The ruling by the this Florida judge will go to a state court of appeals, then the Florida Supreme Court. From there it could go into federal court system and end up the US Supreme Court. These courts will not be looking at right life or right to choose. They will be looking at the judges decision and his basis for his decision; simply stated did the state legislature violate sec 23, right of the personal privacy of the Florida State constitution by enacting this law.

If you read section 23, Every natural person has the right to be let alone and free from governmental intrusion into the person's private life except as otherwise provided herein. It's hard to imagine that making a woman's or a child's sexuality activities, methods of contraception, and choice of an abortion public knowledge would not be considered an invasion of privacy. In our society there is practically nothing that is held to be more private than this, yet it would become public record for any arrests or prosecution. However, state judges are political appointees some by the current governor but others that go back many years. So the ruling will likely be political even thou it seems cut and dry.

This case can have national importance because a few Red states pursuing strict abortion laws have privacy laws in their constitution which includes Arizona which is in the same legal fight as Florida.

States with right to privacy enshrined in their constitution - Alaska, Arizona, California, Florida, Hawaii, Illinois, Louisiana, Montana, New Hampshire, South Carolina and Washington

Your section 23 is ambiguous at best. Even the Supreme Court didn't find any constitutional protections for this so called privacy you speak of. But hey, why didn't healthcare workers use 23 against vaccine mandates by Dementia? Nobody should have the right in federal government to force you to take a medication you don't want or need, and nobody should force you to take any tests you don't want to take either.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Maybe, maybe not. 20% to 25% of women of childbearing age have missed periods. Most do not get an abortion until about the 9th week. This is primarily do to the fact that the number of abortion clinics are decreasing and more are offering counseling. Tt takes about one to two weeks to get an appointment and there are typically 2 appointments. At the first appointment, the intake person does counseling, a pregnancy test, and takes care of insurance and payment . Usually, the procedure follows within a few days. For women that wait pasted their 2nd missed period, to make a decision, they will typically get an abortion about 13 week, end of the first trimester.

93% of abortions occur by end of first trimester, 13 weeks . An additional 6% occurred between 14 and 20 weeks of pregnancy, so having a 15 week cut off forces these women to make a premature decision for political expediency. Given another week, some women will abandon the abortion because the longer a woman waits to get an abortion the least likely they are to go through with it. Although the 15 week cutoff would still allow most abortions, there is go reason to keep the 28 week cutoff.

The 28 week cutoff would allow time for a a screening scan to be performed at 20–22 weeks to exclude any structural abnormalities indicating Downs syndrome, Trisomy 18, and some really horrible structural abnormalities, no child or mother should be forced by the state to endure these. The abortion laws that have been passed do not protect the mother or the child, only the unborn fetus which is all the prolifers have any interest in.

So what's the problem? Go to your nearest liberal state that allows abortion right up to the day of birth.