It's not the government's job to fuck with the economy

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

The primary function of the government...is to take care of it's people.

I disagree. The primary function of our government is to keep us free. It's up to you to take care of yourself.

The primary function of our FEDERAL government is to protect us from foriegn threats (be it military, unsecured borders, or unfair trade) and otherwise stay out of our lives.

 

[Sallow]

The primary function of the government...is to take care of it's people.

I disagree. The primary function of our government is to keep us free. It's up to you to take care of yourself.

You may disagree..but when the first cavemen banded together..it was nothing about being "free". Same on down along the line. Governments started to morph when technology got better and needs were met more easily. Free is basically an abstract. Hunger and the elements are not.

 

[Jarhead]

So NOW you are starting to realize why these ORIGINALISTS are fucking crazy right?

Or is only when someone points out original intent of the military?

Let me put it to you this way....

I have been poor...I have been well off.
I have a college degree...I paid off the loans.
I have been an employee, I have been an empoloyer
I have been homeless (true..for a full summer)...I have rented...and owned two homes (not at the same time)

I have never collected a dime in unemployment, welfare or food stamps. I have never used medicare.

Government has been there for me for:

1) police protection
2) military protection
3) Fire protection
4) transportation needs (roads, bridges, etc)

So for me?

Gettring rid of the military is absurd....it is one of 4 services I cant do for myself.

That may all work out for you..but your case is not everyone's case. And you don't live in this country alone. So you, along with everyone else gets to decide how we move forward. And if enough people are sick and tired of how we are moving forward..then we cease to be a country.

My point is....my way worked and I had nothing special to start off with.

I grew up in Yonkers....the most depressed area of Yonkers.
I joined the military...and quit becuase I was a quitter.
I floundered around without a job or a roof over my head.
(I bagged gorceries so I could eat while I tired to start my own business in my studio apartment in the basement of some house in Brooklyn.

I now have a net worth that would allow me to retire if I wanted to.....but I am still working toward my one dream...that my two children will never have to work a day in their lives..

And, of course, I exepct them to never want to take advanatge of that.....but it is still my dream.

If I dont need the government to take care of me...then no one does.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

The primary function of the government...is to take care of it's people.

I disagree. The primary function of our government is to keep us free. It's up to you to take care of yourself.

You may disagree..but when the first cavemen banded together..it was nothing about being "free". Same on down along the line. Governments started to morph when technology got better and needs were met more easily. Free is basically an abstract. Hunger and the elements are not.

And the federal govt is not there to keep us from being hungry and out of the elements....that power is reserved to the states or the people respectively .

See i'm not saying govt shouldn't help out, i'm just saying the federal govt has no constitutional authority in those areas...however they have gained the legistlative authority over the decades which is something I wish I could change.

 

[Avatar4321]

You're right. Business needs to be able to see years down the road. Obama has put blindfolds on us all.

what nonsense... what has changed substantially since baby bush was president?

nothing you say, other than obama derangement syndrome?

quite right.

now, reality... government ALWAYS affects business. Every decision from whom to tax and for what or what not to tax effectuates economic policy. The REASON our laws exist as they do is because the middle class does not exist in the face of laissez faire capitalism. You end up with wealth disparity approximating what exists in countries like Peru... or Bolivia... or even countries like Saudi Arabia... ignorant, angry, uneducate, populace, and armed guards and the army protecting the wealthy.

that is the end result of "getting out of business' way".

me? i want to know that if some loser company tries to sell my son toys painted with lead paint, that my government is going to stop them. i want to know if some company throws chemicals into my water, that government is going to stop them. i want to know that if some company tries to re-create sweat shops or pay people a wage they can't give on as it used to be in merry ole england, then my government is going to stop them.

this whole "leave the poor corporations alone" so they can pour bazillions into manipulating our political system is bizarre. i've never seen people take positions against their own self-interest like this ever in my life.

frankly, if trickle down worked, it would have worked already. voodoo economics.

So what your saying is Obama has accomplished absolutely nothing? I mean that's the only conclusion one can draw if you are seriously going to argue that nothing has changed since the Bush administration.

Im far from a supporter of Obama and Im not even that harsh. My problem isnt his lack of success in doing things. It the lack of competence in doing things that continually hurt the nation.

Take Obamacare for one. We would create more jobs by simply repealing that. Why? Because people still dont know what's in the stupid piece of legislation, including the politicians. When people dont know what costs to expect, they can't possibly accurately predict future profits and hire people.

Not to mention all the regulations the Administration has been engaging in outside of direct congressional actions.

To pretend that Obama has changed nothing since the Bush administration is an out and out lie, and even if it wasn't, if he hasnt changed anything in 3 years then he sure as hell doesn't deserve to be reelected.

Are you sure you really want to be arguing that?

 

[paulitician]

Bush/Obama? Who cares? They're both Nanny State/Police State advocates. It does make you believe these guys are just puppets in the end. Obama hasn't done anything but expand the Government further and make things worse. He just continued all of Bush's policies. Yet so many kooks are still running around crowing about "Hope & Change." There is no change. It aint happening. And that's very sad.

 

[Avatar4321]

Let me put it to you this way....

I have been poor...I have been well off.
I have a college degree...I paid off the loans.
I have been an employee, I have been an empoloyer
I have been homeless (true..for a full summer)...I have rented...and owned two homes (not at the same time)

I have never collected a dime in unemployment, welfare or food stamps. I have never used medicare.

Government has been there for me for:

1) police protection
2) military protection
3) Fire protection
4) transportation needs (roads, bridges, etc)

So for me?

Gettring rid of the military is absurd....it is one of 4 services I cant do for myself.

That may all work out for you..but your case is not everyone's case. And you don't live in this country alone. So you, along with everyone else gets to decide how we move forward. And if enough people are sick and tired of how we are moving forward..then we cease to be a country.

My point is....my way worked and I had nothing special to start off with.

I grew up in Yonkers....the most depressed area of Yonkers.
I joined the military...and quit becuase I was a quitter.
I floundered around without a job or a roof over my head.
(I bagged gorceries so I could eat while I tired to start my own business in my studio apartment in the basement of some house in Brooklyn.

I now have a net worth that would allow me to retire if I wanted to.....but I am still working toward my one dream...that my two children will never have to work a day in their lives..

And, of course, I exepct them to never want to take advanatge of that.....but it is still my dream.

If I dont need the government to take care of me...then no one does.

No one ever did.

 

[Jarhead]

Back to my original point. Originalists are fucking crazy. When you start going on about small this..and small that..then you either have to put up or shut up.

This isn't a small country. We have lots of territory and are interconnected with the entire world.

The primary function of the government, any government, is to take care of it's people. That's the buy in. If a government isn't doing that..then it is a government that is a failure.

wow.

You and I will never agree on that point.

I do not need Goverenment to take care of me.

I need government to protect me from enemies, lawbreakers and fires.
I need government to makes sure I can travel acrosss this great land.

I do not need them to take care of me.

Again...and you know I love you Sallow....but....WOW.

You contradict yourself in the same post. You don't need the government to take care of you but you need it to protect you?

Protection is part and parcel with care. You may not think so..but that's the way it is. And "care" doesn't stop where you say so..it stops were "we" say so. And it's the "we" that includes the entire country. So at some point we either compromise or we don't.

And the "don't" will be the eventual end of the country.

that is not a contradiction...you are using semantics to call it a contradiction.

A security system and a lock on the door will protect the child from being kidnapped...but they will not change its diaper and feed it....so a Nanny is needed to take care of the child as well.

Stop with the semantics...my point is a valid one.

 

[eflatminor]

The primary function of the government...is to take care of it's people.

I disagree. The primary function of our government is to keep us free. It's up to you to take care of yourself.

You may disagree..but when the first cavemen banded together..it was nothing about being "free". Same on down along the line. Governments started to morph when technology got better and needs were met more easily. Free is basically an abstract. Hunger and the elements are not.

Isn't it wonderful in our relatively free society, we have so few hungry or exposed to the elements while in less free societies, they experience true poverty. It is our focus on freedom that has enriched the entire country and why our "poor" are considered rich in the rest of the world.

 

[Jarhead]

That may all work out for you..but your case is not everyone's case. And you don't live in this country alone. So you, along with everyone else gets to decide how we move forward. And if enough people are sick and tired of how we are moving forward..then we cease to be a country.

My point is....my way worked and I had nothing special to start off with.

I grew up in Yonkers....the most depressed area of Yonkers.
I joined the military...and quit becuase I was a quitter.
I floundered around without a job or a roof over my head.
(I bagged gorceries so I could eat while I tired to start my own business in my studio apartment in the basement of some house in Brooklyn.

I now have a net worth that would allow me to retire if I wanted to.....but I am still working toward my one dream...that my two children will never have to work a day in their lives..

And, of course, I exepct them to never want to take advanatge of that.....but it is still my dream.

If I dont need the government to take care of me...then no one does.

No one ever did.

physically and mentally challanged are the only ones that may.

Which pretty much covers liberals....

Ahhhh....now I get it.

 

[ShaklesOfBigGov]

If they would stop this Wilson-era bullshit tinkering unemployment would go down and businesses could accurately prepare YEARS IN ADVANCE and hire people. I don't see why this is such a difficult god damn concept.

Hmmmm.....first all I ever hear from the right is, "Why doesn't Obama take action on the economy"?

Now I'm hearing, "It's not the government's job to fuck with the economy".

WTF??????????

Obama can take action by

1. STOPPING all this wasted government spending, like choosing which corporations will get assistance [Solyndra] and which businesses won't. Wasting tax dollars on government 'gimmics' that have no effect on lowering the unemployment rate -- 'Cash for Clunkers' comes to mind.

2. Adding additional bank regulations which has resulted in a financial "kink in the hose" for businesses needing loans. More restrictions on banks, doesn't build a strong economy.

3. Stepping away from the private sector, and encourage them to hire and build in America, by ending this "Class Warfare" blame because the Democrats under Obama obviously has a HUGE spending problem. Spewing hatred towards the rich, while not accepting responsibility for the escalating DEBT you created in the FIRST place, will not encourage them to hire - basic "economic common sense". Why else has the unemployment numbers struggled to get any lower than a 9.1% rate, for just the first two years when Democrats controlled TWO branches of government? There's no one to blame but Democrats for the economy there. Corporations will not hire if you threaten them with increased taxes, and don't give them a reason to remain here and "build in America".

 

[Wiseacre]

" The primary function of the government, any government, is to take care of it's people. That's the buy in. If a government isn't doing that..then it is a government that is a failure. " - Sallow

Well there you are, the whole argument in a nutshell. No worries, the gov't will provide. No responsibilities either, somebody else will pay for it. How anybody can believe such a system can survive and prosper is beyond me.

 

[Claudette]

My point is....my way worked and I had nothing special to start off with.

I grew up in Yonkers....the most depressed area of Yonkers.
I joined the military...and quit becuase I was a quitter.
I floundered around without a job or a roof over my head.
(I bagged gorceries so I could eat while I tired to start my own business in my studio apartment in the basement of some house in Brooklyn.

I now have a net worth that would allow me to retire if I wanted to.....but I am still working toward my one dream...that my two children will never have to work a day in their lives..

And, of course, I exepct them to never want to take advanatge of that.....but it is still my dream.

If I dont need the government to take care of me...then no one does.

No one ever did.

physically and mentally challanged are the only ones that may.

Which pretty much covers liberals....

Ahhhh....now I get it.

Yup. I don't need Govt to take care of me either. I'm not one to sit on my ass and bemoan my situation. If things aren't good I do what it takes to make em good. Done so several times in my life. I sure as hell never ran to the Govt to bail me out.

Govt needs to get out of the business of picking winners and losers in the Private Sector as well. Solyndra is a prime example there. They can't pick winners for shit. They have no problem wasting taxpayer dollars and don't seem to give a shit if they do. They spend out hard earned money like it grows on a tree and they can pick that tree bald any time they want to.

Govt should stick to what its supposed to do via the Constitution and get the hell out of the way and let the private sector do what its supposed to do.

 

[ShaklesOfBigGov]

If they would stop this Wilson-era bullshit tinkering unemployment would go down and businesses could accurately prepare YEARS IN ADVANCE and hire people. I don't see why this is such a difficult god damn concept.

I agree with you wholeheartedly.

The govt needs to pack it up and get out of the way and stick to the limits placed on its power by the constitution.

Sure thing. It could start by getting rid of the standing professional army. Never was mandated by the constitution and costs a bundle.

I will start believing you guys when you really start going after the big ticket items.

Unfortunately Military spending is only 25% of the budget, and there has already been military cuts placed on the Pentegon. It's high time the left feels the "pinch" and addresses the other 59% of entitlement spending (Medicare, Medicade, Social Security, and Welfare). These lists of entitlements were never mandated by the constitution.
http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/


The Preamble of the United States Constitution states the government is "to provide for the common defense". That directly relates to the need of having a military force capable of defending this country from the threats of invaders.

“There is a rank due to the United States among nations which will be withheld, if not absolutely lost, by the reputation of weakness. If we desire to avoid insult, we must be able to repel it; if we desire to secure peace, one of the most powerful instruments of our rising prosperity, it must be known that we are at all times ready for war.”
-- George Washington (1793)


The preamble of the Constitution goes on to say "promote the general welfare". Notice the specific word clearly chosen HERE is the word "promote", not provide. The United States Constitution never states that it is the Federal Government's responsibility, nor does it give them the authority as it was written, to provide for everyone's welfare or well being.

 

[jillian]

My point is....my way worked and I had nothing special to start off with.

I grew up in Yonkers....the most depressed area of Yonkers.
I joined the military...and quit becuase I was a quitter.
I floundered around without a job or a roof over my head.
(I bagged gorceries so I could eat while I tired to start my own business in my studio apartment in the basement of some house in Brooklyn.

I now have a net worth that would allow me to retire if I wanted to.....but I am still working toward my one dream...that my two children will never have to work a day in their lives..

And, of course, I exepct them to never want to take advanatge of that.....but it is still my dream.

If I dont need the government to take care of me...then no one does.

No one ever did.

physically and mentally challanged are the only ones that may.

Which pretty much covers liberals....

Ahhhh....now I get it.

i do believe you're getting a government pension, no?

so what were you saying?

 

[Dragon]

The belief that the government should have nothing to do with the economy is the single biggest reason why this sort of conservatism represents only a small and dwindling minority of the people.

Seriously.

So you think it is the job of government to guarantee jobs to everyone that wants one?

Whatever the government's job may or may not be, it's not MY job to answer straw men.

 

[Sallow]

I disagree. The primary function of our government is to keep us free. It's up to you to take care of yourself.

You may disagree..but when the first cavemen banded together..it was nothing about being "free". Same on down along the line. Governments started to morph when technology got better and needs were met more easily. Free is basically an abstract. Hunger and the elements are not.

Isn't it wonderful in our relatively free society, we have so few hungry or exposed to the elements while in less free societies, they experience true poverty. It is our focus on freedom that has enriched the entire country and why our "poor" are considered rich in the rest of the world.

If you really want government "out of the way" of business..have at it. But that should mean, "out of the way" both ways. Government got involved in labor disputes because people were killing each other. You wanna go back to that? Fine. But don't cry at the dead bodies. Because that's the way it was.

 

[BDBoop]

You're right. Business needs to be able to see years down the road. Obama has put blindfolds on us all.

Really? And tied your hands as well, so you can't remove the blinders?

 

[Jarhead]

No one ever did.

physically and mentally challanged are the only ones that may.

Which pretty much covers liberals....

Ahhhh....now I get it.

i do believe you're getting a government pension, no?

so what were you saying?

With my limited service?

I forgave that a long time ago.

I did not earn it....

 

[Sallow]

wow.

You and I will never agree on that point.

I do not need Goverenment to take care of me.

I need government to protect me from enemies, lawbreakers and fires.
I need government to makes sure I can travel acrosss this great land.

I do not need them to take care of me.

Again...and you know I love you Sallow....but....WOW.

You contradict yourself in the same post. You don't need the government to take care of you but you need it to protect you?

Protection is part and parcel with care. You may not think so..but that's the way it is. And "care" doesn't stop where you say so..it stops were "we" say so. And it's the "we" that includes the entire country. So at some point we either compromise or we don't.

And the "don't" will be the eventual end of the country.

that is not a contradiction...you are using semantics to call it a contradiction.

A security system and a lock on the door will protect the child from being kidnapped...but they will not change its diaper and feed it....so a Nanny is needed to take care of the child as well.

Stop with the semantics...my point is a valid one.

What semantics? That's what care involves. Nurturing and protecting. That's what parents in nature do..nuture and protect their young.

Your point is valid for you. It's not global.