Israel’s Big Lie of “Self-Defence”

[Billo_Really]

I knew

Nice dodge.

But sure, shrug. It's the opinion of one dude. Lots of people have opinions. (Look where we are here on USMB). Are those opinions accurate? Sometimes. Sometimes not.

I knew you didn't have the balls to comment on what he said!

 

[Billo_Really]

Nice dodge.

But sure, shrug. It's the opinion of one dude. Lots of people have opinions. (Look where we are here on USMB). Are those opinions accurate? Sometimes. Sometimes not.

It's not a dodge! It's what you fuckers did when you moved here. You treated indigenous Arabs like garbage. So don't give me this deer in the headlights look when they revolt! You deserve it!

 

[surada]

It's not a dodge! It's what you fuckers did when you moved here. You treated indigenous Arabs like garbage. So don't give me this deer in the headlights look when they revolt! You deserve it!

Some people can abuse others because their religion is superior.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Some people can abuse others because their religion is superior.

You leave Mohammad out of this discussion!

 

[USAF 2023]

It's not a dodge! It's what you fuckers did when you moved here. You treated indigenous Arabs like garbage. So don't give me this deer in the headlights look when they revolt! You deserve it!

Glad you feel that way So do the Palestinians.

 

[Shusha]

I knew

I knew you didn't have the balls to comment on what he said!

What do you want me to say? He was a dude with an opinion. Did he witness the things he wrote about? I think he most likely did. Was he correct in his opinion? Possibly. Others had different opinions and wrote about their opinions too. I could post some. But why? There are millions of people living in Israel. I'm sure everyone has a story about being treated horribly. And I'm sure everyone has a story about being treated with respect and kindness.

Broad, sweeping statements about which side is "evil" and which side is "good" are a distraction, at best, and a demonization of the "other", at worst. That's a game I choose not to play.

 

[Shusha]

It's not a dodge! It's what you fuckers did when you moved here. You treated indigenous Arabs like garbage. So don't give me this deer in the headlights look when they revolt! You deserve it!

Sure. Some Jews treated Arabs like garbage. And some Arabs treated Jews like garbage. It's now a hundred years later. How are you planning on unbreaking those eggs?

What do the people of Gaza have? What do the people of Gaza want? And how are we going to give it to them?

What they had from 2005 to 2023:

• a territory with no Israeli military presence within the borders
• a territory without Israeli governmental or administrative oversight
• a more-or-less functioning independent government which provided social services
• citizenship papers and travel documents of Palestine
• trade and economic opportunities with Israel
• millions of $ of international aid
• very nice 5-star hotels on some beautiful white sand beaches

What they want, option A:

• an open border with Israel and Egypt, allowing them to travel without security measures
• a sea port
• an airport
• international trade
• economic prosperity
• self-determination, sovereignty, and recognition

What they want, option B:

• a single state from river to sea under Arab rule (destruction of Israel)
• return of all self-identifying Palestinian Arabs to the territory (destruction of Israel)
• expulsion of all Jews or of the "wrong" Jews (destruction of Israel)

And you can feel free to adjust those lists if you feel I've got it wrong. But here's the thing. Option B is NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN without a Holocaust-level event perpetrated against the Jews. (Gd forbid).

Option A is still possible. But option A requires the dissolution of an aspirations towards option B, and it requires - as a pre-condition - the end of violence against Israel.

 

[Shusha]

Some people can abuse others because their religion is superior.

A religion which celebrates "resistance" as raping women so brutally it breaks their pelvises, or as roasting infants alive, or as beheading people with farming implements had best be extremely cautious when discussing religious superiority.

 

[surada]

Glad you feel that way So do the Palestinians.

How much slaughter to keep Bibi Netanyahu in power?

Original Party Platform of the Likud Party

Encyclopedia of Jewish and Israeli history, politics and culture, with biographies, statistics, articles and documents on topics from anti-Semitism to Zionism.

www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org

The Right of the Jewish People to the Land of Israel (Eretz Israel)
a. The right of the Jewish people to the land of Israel is eternal and indisputable and is linked with the right to security and peace; therefore, Judea and Samaria will not be handed to any foreign administration; between the Sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty.

b. A plan which relinquishes parts of western Eretz Israel, undermines our right to the country, unavoidably leads to the establishment of a "Palestinian State," jeopardizes the security of the Jewish population, endangers the existence of the State of Israel. and frustrates any prospect of peace.

Genuine Peace-Our Central Objective
a. The Likud government will place its aspirations for peace at the top of its priorities and will spare no effort to promote peace. The Likud will act as a genuine partner at peace treaty negotiations with our neighbors, as is customary among the nations. The Likud government will attend the Geneva Conference. .

b. The Likud governments peace initiative will he positive. Directly or through a friendly state. Israel will invite her neighbors to hold direct negotiations, in order to sign without pre-conditions on either side and without any solution formula invented by outsiders (invented outside ).

At the negotiations each party will he free to make any proposals it deems lit.

Settlement
Settlement. both urban and rural. in all parts of the Land of Israel is the focal point of the Zionist effort to redeem the country, to maintain vital security areas and serves as a reservoir of strength and inspiration for the renewal of the pioneering spirit. The Likud government will call on the younger generation in Israel and the dispersions to settle and help every group and individual in the task of inhabiting and cultivating the wasteland, while taking care not to dispossess anyone.

Arab Terror Organizations
The PLO is no national liberation organization but an organization of assassins, which the Arab countries use as a political and military tool, while also serving the interests of Soviet imperialism, to stir up the area. Its aim is to liquidate the State of Israel, set up an Arab country instead and make the Land of Israel part of the Arab world. The Likud government will strive to eliminate these murderous organizations in order to prevent them from carrying out their bloody deeds

 

[surada]

A religion which celebrates "resistance" as raping women so brutally it breaks their pelvises, or as roasting infants alive, or as beheading people with farming implements had best be extremely cautious when discussing religious superiority.

You're really ignorant about Islam.

Original Party Platform of the Likud Party

Encyclopedia of Jewish and Israeli history, politics and culture, with biographies, statistics, articles and documents on topics from anti-Semitism to Zionism.

www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org

 

[Shusha]

You're really ignorant about Islam.

In point of fact, I didn't say anything about the teachings of Islam. What I said was that people of a religious faith who celebrate atrocities committed by people of the same religious faith might want to do some internal soul-searching, meditate on some scripture, and maybe spend some time in deep, contemplative prayer before commenting on the superiority of one religion over another.

 

[USAF 2023]

How much slaughter to keep Bibi Netanyahu in power?
As many as possible. Please tell us exactly what Hamas thought would be Israel’s response

 

[Billo_Really]

Glad you feel that way So do the Palestinians.

I have no dog in this hunt. I'm just calling what I see.

 

[USAF 2023]

I have no dog in this hunt. I'm just calling what I see.

Same here.

 

[Billo_Really]

What do you want me to say? He was a dude with an opinion. Did he witness the things he wrote about? I think he most likely did. Was he correct in his opinion? Possibly. Others had different opinions and wrote about their opinions too. I could post some. But why? There are millions of people living in Israel. I'm sure everyone has a story about being treated horribly. And I'm sure everyone has a story about being treated with respect and kindness.

Broad, sweeping statements about which side is "evil" and which side is "good" are a distraction, at best, and a demonization of the "other", at worst. That's a game I choose not to play.

Fair enough.

 

[Billo_Really]

Sure. Some Jews treated Arabs like garbage. And some Arabs treated Jews like garbage. It's now a hundred years later. How are you planning on unbreaking those eggs?

What do the people of Gaza have? What do the people of Gaza want? And how are we going to give it to them?

What they had from 2005 to 2023:

• a territory with no Israeli military presence within the borders
• a territory without Israeli governmental or administrative oversight
• a more-or-less functioning independent government which provided social services
• citizenship papers and travel documents of Palestine
• trade and economic opportunities with Israel
• millions of $ of international aid
• very nice 5-star hotels on some beautiful white sand beaches

What they want, option A:

• an open border with Israel and Egypt, allowing them to travel without security measures
• a sea port
• an airport
• international trade
• economic prosperity
• self-determination, sovereignty, and recognition

What they want, option B:

• a single state from river to sea under Arab rule (destruction of Israel)
• return of all self-identifying Palestinian Arabs to the territory (destruction of Israel)
• expulsion of all Jews or of the "wrong" Jews (destruction of Israel)

And you can feel free to adjust those lists if you feel I've got it wrong. But here's the thing. Option B is NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN without a Holocaust-level event perpetrated against the Jews. (Gd forbid).

Option A is still possible. But option A requires the dissolution of an aspirations towards option B, and it requires - as a pre-condition - the end of violence against Israel.

You are wrong! You are absolutely wrong! Google the list of restricted items not allowed in Gaza and tell me, as a fellow human being, could you have a dignified life without those products?

Do you live without electricity? Do you know how the quality of your life would be without electricity? How would your life be without potable water? How would your life be with weekly missile strikes from the IDF and no place to run or hide?

How about farming and fishing? How would your life be, if every time you went out to fish or harvest your crops, you got shot at by the IDF?

That is the reality for Gazans these past 16 years!

You asked how we can get rid of all this hate? Get rid of that Netanfuckyou government! Vote someone in on the Israeli left.

 

[shockedcanadian]

An occupier does not have the right to use arms in “self-defence”.​

There are four reasons why Israel cannot cite a legal right to self-defence in response to Palestinian violence.

First and foremost is that the ability of a very strong military power to achieve anything defensive by the attrition of a much weaker military power is spurious and leads into the genocidal logic of attempting to deprive a people of all capacity for violence.

The second reason is that Israel is actively contravening UN Security Council resolutions and the UN Charter is very clear on the fact that the right to self-defence exists “until the Security Council has taken measures necessary to maintain international peace and security.” A state that works to thwart UNSC measures to maintain peace and security cannot logically be extended the unimpaired right to self defence.

On the third count Israel is an occupying power and the occupied have a legal right to armed resistance. It would be nonsensical to accord a legal right to use arms to defend against another’s legal resistance.

Fourthly, it would be equally paradoxical to allow each party to act in self-defence against each other’s acts of self defence. Thus one of the parties must be the aggressor. On several counts, not least its defiance of UNSC resolutions, Israel must be considered the aggressor.
Israel’s only legitimate way of defending itself begins with ending its occupation. Israelis have a right to life and they deserve peace and security as we all do, but they have no right to kill Palestinians and claim that they are pursuing those things.

Let's make no mistake, Israel is the aggressor! And it is committing genocide. According to Arnon Soffer...

“When 2.5 million people live in a closed-off Gaza, it’s going to be a human catastrophe. Those people will become even bigger animals than they are today … The pressure at the border will be awful. It’s going to be a terrible war. So, if we want to remain alive, we will have to kill and kill and kill. All day, every day..."

These words are shockingly Himmleresque in labelling a people animals; in stating that mass killing is neither choice nor desire, but necessity...

All the Israeli supporters at this website echo this theme that it is "necessary" to inflict all this damage on the Palestinian's. This is Germany in the 30's all over again!

The term "occupier" isn't remotely accurate. They left Gaza in 2005 or 06 and Hamas took over. This is what they became under self rule. A legitimate two state solution should be in the future. What will it look like though? The U.N said it has no interest monitoring there.

 

[Billo_Really]

Same here.

Well, good for you!

 

[Billo_Really]

The term "occupier" isn't remotely accurate. They left Gaza in 2005 or 06 and Hamas took over. This is what they became under self rule. A legitimate two state solution should be in the future. What will it look like though? The U.N said it has no interest monitoring there.

You are completely wrong! Israel did not leave in 2005. They've maintained an illegal and immoral blockade of Gaza for the last 16 years. They maintain effective control over 80% of Gaza and that satisfies the definition of an occupation.

 

[Meathead]

You are completely wrong! Israel did not leave in 2005. They've maintained an illegal and immoral blockade of Gaza for the last 16 years. They maintain effective control over 80% of Gaza and that satisfies the definition of an occupation.

You can't "occupy" a seat someone else is sitting in idiot.