Islam a doctrine? Or religion?

Discussion in 'Religion and Ethics' started by Munin, Apr 9, 2010.

  1. Munin
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    Munin VIP Member

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    Let me start with a quote from 1 side of the discussion (warning for people who re not used to free speech: it is very anti-islamic and critical of islam & muslims)

    Islam: 270 Million Bodies in 1400 Years | Breaking News online by Social daily News

    I would be glad to have people here base their opinion upon "good" arguments, like for example "verses from Islam" that contradict what is being said or historical facts .
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2010
  2. editec
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    editec Mr. Forgot-it-All

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  3. Munin
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    Munin VIP Member

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    I mainly started with this quote to open the discussion as it is not very clear that Islam is only a religion or a doctrine with political purposes, so it s not only about the article presented in my OP. You seem to see it as a religion with no political intentions, as according to you it is similar to christianity and other big religions?

    EDIT: btw why did you type christianity in dutch? (christendom)
     
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  4. Diuretic
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    Diuretic Permanently confused

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    From the little I know - Frank where are you? - it seems to me that Islam is a religion and a way of life at the same time. That being so then it is obviously going to be a political doctrine as well. But what's new? The history of the world is replete with religion and politics being bound up with one another. The secular state is a comparatively recent invention.
     
  5. Munin
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    Munin VIP Member

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    So Islam is not compatible with democracy? And a state with a vast majority of muslims will be very unlikely to become a democracy?

    I think the secular state was invented when the US became independant and that is already a long while ago
     
  6. Freeman
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    Freeman VIP Member

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    the author of the article is completely biased for many reasons:

    1- There is absolutely no single verse that predict to kill innocent people or unbileivers.
    the verse is directed to paganists who killed fidels in Mecca and burn their homes, the right of resistance is revealed
    Then your Lord spoke to His angels and said, “I will be with you. Give strength to the believers. I will send terror into the unbelievers’ hearts, cut off their heads and even the tips of their fingers!”

    the author has used quote mining without completing the rest of Quranic verses:

    But if the enemy incline towards peace, do thou (also) incline towards peace, and trust in Allah: for He is the One that heareth and knoweth (all things).

    2- The author has contradicted himself when using quote mining although he said:
    "Our first principle is that Koran, Sira and Hadith must be taken as a whole"!

    3-The author didn't explain what's the Jihad of war despite using this term purposeless

    The jihad of war means resistance and fighting aggressors:

    Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for Allah loveth not transgressors.

    And fight them on until there is no more persecution or oppression, and the religion becomes Allah's. But if they cease. Let there be no hostility except to those who practice oppression.

    4-Big LIE used by the author:

    Asians and Africans accepted Islam willfully, for instance Indonesia is the greatest islamic country ...they were no conquest there.

    I don't know where he brings those numbers??!

    The only massacres by millions was committed by europeans against Indians when they entry North/south America.
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2010
  7. boedicca
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    boedicca Uppity Water Nymph Supporting Member

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    Islam as practiced in the Middle East today is a political movement.
     
  8. uscitizen
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    uscitizen Senior Member

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    And is christianity or any religion different from that?
    Live and let live is my stance.
    Believe and do as you wish as long as it does not infringe on the rights of others.
    Legislating any religious morality is wrong in my view.
     
  9. Munin
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    Munin VIP Member

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    That is because it was written down, there is good evidence of it by the people who committed the genocide and by the evidence that is still there.

    Often a conquering nation will not keep records of the genocides they commit. The genocide of Hindus in India by muslims was never well recorded by historians (as only the Islamic scholars could ve kept records of it).


    There was a very large decrease in the hindu population when the Islamic Jihad in India had began. Problem is that there have not been many historians who have really found enough evidence, but at least there has been made an effort:


    The American historian Will Durant summed it up like this:
    Also this link will give you some insight in the hidu massacre that occured during that time and why there are/is so few facts/evidence about it.
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2010
  10. Diuretic
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    Diuretic Permanently confused

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    I think Islam could be compatible with democracy, it would take a bit of work on both sides though. There are many examples of the opposite though, Saudi Arabia being one, a tyrannical theocracy. I have to say after thinking about it that I'm not sure but I think it could be done.

    Yes, the Founding Fathers were wise in developing perhaps the first secular state. They saw what had happened in Europe and to a lesser extent in Britain and knew the problems that religion could foster in the political life. Ironically though, from my perspective, religion is very important now in US politics.
     

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