Zone1 Is Your Body a Temple or a Graveyard?

[Woodznutz]

That is one reading of it. A Calvinistic kind of viewpoint. But this is not the only way to read it. There are better ways, ways that reconcile the problem of evil much better than these readings. Plus one must ask themselves, if God is love and there is no evil in him as scriptures says of Him, then how is scripture supposedly assigning evil intentions from God reconcilable with there not being any evil in God?

God punishes evil with calamity. The same Hebrew word is used for both.

 

[Woodznutz]

God's sacrifice in the Garden, at the very least then reveals the legitimacy of animal sacrifice for human benefit. Abel, a keeper of sheep, understood how to make an acceptable sacrifice using animals (Gen 4:3-4). Why was Abel a keeper of sheep? For what purpose? Perhaps to eat? Moreover, the description of Abel's sacrifice is instructive. Notice the phrase, "and of their fat portions" (Gen 4:4). This is similar to the peace offerings offered later where the "fat" was burned and the meat was eaten (Lev 3:9).

Cain offered a grain offering. Later in the Old Testament we learn that grain offerings were accompanied by peace offerings (Lev. 3; 6:14-23). So, in Genesis 4 we may be observing the first coupling of peace and grain offerings. If so, then part of the offering may have been eaten by man.

Abel's offering was deemed "more excellent" as well. He offered the very best of the firstlings of the flock.

 

[surada]

Abel's offering was deemed "more excellent" as well. He offered the very best of the firstlings of the flock.

The Bible doesn't advocate vegetarianism.

 

[Woodznutz]

But we were supposed to have never left the garden in the first place!! What do you think the garden was? It was this earth in it's perfect form before any thing at all began to destroy it. When everything God created were living in harmony, in perfect Shalom. It is God's goal to restore that paradise, it always has been, so eating the flesh of his beloved sentient creatures was never his plan from the beginning, and God does not change, this is still not his plan, never will be, and one day, he will restore the earth to that Garden of Eden oasis again - don't you see? What we experience was never intended to be experienced, scripture says an enemy has done this - Satan who came to kill, steal and destroy (Matthew 13:28)!

If you are going to be bent on eating the flesh of God's beloved creatures, then you should know what it is you are partaking of and do your homework. You should have to kill the animals yourself to feed yourself instead of paying someone else to do it. You should visit a slaughterhouse, you should watch the footage of those undercover investigators who have filmed the horrors as they are killed. You should watch what happens to chicks who are born to be laying hens, watch what laying hens go through, as well as those who go on to be broiler birds. You should take a look inside a CAFO (confined animal feeding operation) and see how they are all treated. You should know what really happens in the milk and dairy industry to baby cows, to mamas who are artificially impregnated continually so that humans can drink the milk that was designed for their babies to make them grow big and strong (and is the cause of lactose intolerance in humans among many other issues because we are eating of something that was not intended for us to consume - lactose | Health Topics | NutritionFacts.org).

I am old enough to remember when animals on farms were raised outdoors and animal husbandry practices were standard. I am not condoing eating animal flesh, yet those times were far better for the animals than today and far better to consume though consuming them has never been God's design. Today, the whole farming system - even to plants as they pour tons of chemicals on everything and destroy the soil, the water, the air, the polinators; as they experiment on animals and create GMOs out of every geno and seed they can - is a complete abomination to God, it is horrific. And again, if you don't know what you really are putting in your body, how it was raised, where it comes from, you should learn. Incidentally, I wonder, would humans feed the milk they produce to a different species? It isn't designed for any other species other than their own human babies, God has designed each species to produce what is best for their own offspring.

If you are going to eat animal flesh, do the research as to what eating that flesh is really doing to the human body. Get the facts (Dr. Michael Greger is the go to, I gave you the link earlier). Why do we have so many pharmaceuticals? There is a drug for every ailment known to man! Why do we have so many ailments? Could it be because we do not follow the designs God intended us to follow? I can tell you personally, I have been vegan for 15 years and I have never been healthier! I am a senior and pharmaceutical free; I rarely take a pain killer, I cannot remember the last time I took one either! I cannot remember how long ago it was that I got sick it has been that long. Do you know how much good food there eating vegan?! I tell you, I have never eaten so well, there is such a variety, and I can make every single favorite recipe of foods that contained animal products and that I loved into vegan recipes that are even better! If we follow God's designs - after all, he created all things to work in harmony together and to flourish - if we follow his designs, he will restore our world (2 Chronicles 7:14; Micah 6:8).

What is Factory Farming? | Farm Sanctuary

Factory farms dominate U.S. food production & are harmful to the environment, social justice, animal welfare, & human health.

www.farmsanctuary.org

Don't throw the baby out with the wash water.

Regarding lactose intolerance, white Europeans don't suffer from it, mainly because they (we) are the descendants of Israel, who God blessed with lands "flowing with milk and honey". Other lands and peoples are not so blessed. In fact, their lactose intolerance prevents them from sharing in this blessing.

Regarding the garden of Eden. It was only a remnant of the originally created earth. Outside were "thorns and thistles", that Adam would have to fight in order to bring in a crop, by "the sweat of his brow". Eve would labor in childbirth ("go on her belly") and "eat dirt" as cursed by God.

Regarding the proper raising of farm animals, many 4Her's raise their animals as both pets and ag projects, knowing their fate beforehand. Most are sold so those kids won't see the death of their loved animals but accept that that is their purpose. It is notable that many first time 4Her's are heartbroken knowing this, but most get over it and go on to raise more. Of course, some are so affected that they leave the program.

 

[surada]

Don't throw the baby out with the wash water.

Regarding lactose intolerance, white Europeans don't suffer from it, mainly because they (we) are the descendants of Israel, who God blessed with lands "flowing with milk and honey". Other lands and peoples are not so blessed. In fact, their lactose intolerance prevents them from sharing in this blessing.

Regarding the garden of Eden. It was only a remnant of the originally created earth. Outside were "thorns and thistles", that Adam would have to fight in order to bring in a crop, by "the sweat of his brow". Eve would labor in childbirth ("go on her belly") and "eat dirt" as cursed by God.

Palestine is hot, arid and stoney.

Europeans aren't often lactose intolerant because they raise dairy herds .. Has nothing to do with being Jewish.

Jewish genetics: 75% of Jews are lactose intolerant and 11 other facts

Almost half of Ashkenazim carry at least one of 38 genetic diseases, and our closest genetic relatives are Druze, Bedouin, Palestinians - and Italians.

www.haaretz.com

 

[Woodznutz]

Palestine is hot, arid and stoney.

Europeans aren't often lactose intolerant because they raise dairy herds .. Has nothing to do with being Jewish.

Jewish genetics: 75% of Jews are lactose intolerant and 11 other facts

Almost half of Ashkenazim carry at least one of 38 genetic diseases, and our closest genetic relatives are Druze, Bedouin, Palestinians - and Italians.

www.haaretz.com

True. If you grow up drinking milk you develop a tolerance for it. Israel probably started drinking lots of milk while in Egypt, and they were looked down on for being herders of cattle. The poor Egyptians didn't realize what a blessing was being bestowed on the Israelites. In fact, the remains of ancient Egyptians often reveal extensive osteoporosis and arthritis, which might have been prevented if milk was in their diets.

The superior health of the Israelites was also demonstrated as the Hebrew women gave birth easily as compared to the Egyptian women.

I said Israelites, not Jews. Jews are also largely excluded from this blessing.

Jewish genetics: 75% of Jews are lactose intolerant and 11 other facts

Almost half of Ashkenazim carry at least one of 38 genetic diseases, and our closest genetic relatives are Druze, Bedouin, Palestinians - and Italians.

www.haaretz.com

 

[Woodznutz]

If you are going to be bent on eating the flesh of God's beloved creatures, then you should know what it is you are partaking of and do your homework. You should have to kill the animals yourself to feed yourself instead of paying someone else to do it.

We hunters and fishermen do.

Me, at age 70, in pretty good shape for a meat eater (I'll be 84 this month and looking forward to deer season).

 

[Woodznutz]

Clear meaning!? Wow, are we reading from the same book? Scripture often contradicts itself and seems to conflict! It is not clear at all in many areas and takes discernment and hearing the voice of God. God said the sheep hear my voice. I'm learning a ton, now that I questioned everything I thought I knew and asked God to guide me into all truth. I also know I have SO much more to learn.

What are these 'brute beasts'?

2 Peter 2:12
But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;

 

[Carl in Michigan]

What are these 'brute beasts'?

2 Peter 2:12
But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;

HUMANS lacking a "soul" -- meaning compassion

Do animals "speak evil of things they really don't understand? To be brutally honest, YOU speak evil of things you pretend not to understand

 

[Carl in Michigan]

The 4 minute mark he makes a point that everyone needs to hear

 

[surada]

The 4 minute mark he makes a point that everyone needs to hear

Sounds like he's never read the Bible.

 

[buttercup]

The Bible doesn't advocate vegetarianism.

Except for PAGE 1 of the bible, where God gave humans and animals a vegetarian diet, which showed God's intent for all creation. (Genesis 1:29-30)

And except for the scriptures on GOD'S ULTIMATE PLAN, when God will restore that initial world of peace and harmony and no flesh eating that was HIS intent in the first place. (Isaiah 11:6-9, Isaiah 65:25, etc)

And except for the hundreds of scriptures on MERCY

And except for the tons of scriptures that call for PEACE

And except for the tons of scriptures that command us to LOVE, and do all things in love

And except for the tons of scriptures that teach selflessness, as opposed to selfishness

And except for the tons of scriptures that teach about caring about the underdog, the innocent, the vulnerable and defenseless

And except for the Golden Rule

And except for the scriptures that teach KINGDOM living and God's perfect will on earth as it is in heaven as opposed to worldliness and having a mind set on earthly things

And except for many more scriptures, like being set apart and different from the world, and at least trying to honor God's perfect will ("therefore be perfect as your heavenly Father is perfect") and many more teachings, for those who have eyes to see and ears to hear.

So yeah..... if all of the above didn't exist, then you might begin to have a point.

 

[surada]

Alas, upon closer study of the entire context in the Gospels in their original Greek, I discovered that the idea that there was no lamb at the Last Supper is just not exegetically sustainable.

Although the word “lamb” (Gk arnion) admittedly does not appear in any account of the words of institution, both Mark and Luke in particular explicitly testify that there was a Passover lamb (Gk pascha) at the Last Supper.

This is quite clear in the Gospel accounts—not first and foremost in the the words of institution—but in the accounts of Jesus sending the disciples (Peter and John) into Jerusalem to prepare the Passover (Mark 14:12-16 parr.)

“When they Sacrificed the Passover Lamb (Pascha)”

So, for example, in the Gospel of Mark, we read:

“And on the first day of Unleavened Bread, when they sacrificed the pascha, his disciples said to him, “Where will you have us go and prepare for you to eat the pascha”? And he sent two of his disciples, and said to them, “Go into the city, and a man carrying a jar of water will meet you…” (Mark 14:12-13)

 

[buttercup]

Alas, upon closer study of the entire context in the Gospels in their original Greek, I discovered that the idea that there was no lamb at the Last Supper is just not exegetically sustainable.

Although the word “lamb” (Gk arnion) admittedly does not appear in any account of the words of institution, both Mark and Luke in particular explicitly testify that there was a Passover lamb (Gk pascha) at the Last Supper.

This is quite clear in the Gospel accounts—not first and foremost in the the words of institution—but in the accounts of Jesus sending the disciples (Peter and John) into Jerusalem to prepare the Passover (Mark 14:12-16 parr.)

“When they Sacrificed the Passover Lamb (Pascha)”

So, for example, in the Gospel of Mark, we read:

“And on the first day of Unleavened Bread, when they sacrificed the pascha, his disciples said to him, “Where will you have us go and prepare for you to eat the pascha”? And he sent two of his disciples, and said to them, “Go into the city, and a man carrying a jar of water will meet you…” (Mark 14:12-13)

It's bad form to do a long copy-paste of something you found on the internet without crediting the author. And you don't have to keep posting the same copypasta over and over, especially when that topic has already been addressed six ways from Sunday, by a few of us.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

Surada is not a Christian. If he were, I'd ask if Christ is the Lamb of God who WILLINGLY gave up His life for his sins

 

[surada]

It's bad form to do a long copy-paste of something you found on the internet without crediting the author. And you don't have to keep posting the same copypasta over and over, especially when that topic has already been addressed six ways from Sunday, by a few of us.

I have posted the links from wiki and Britanica repeatedly.

 

[surada]

Surada is not a Christian. If he were, I'd ask if Christ is the Lamb of God who WILLINGLY gave up His life for his sins

Lol .

I'm a grandmother and a Christian. Don't you ever actually read Scripture?

 

[surada]

buttercup

Your Bible doesn't have have Mark 14?

Where will you have us go and prepare for you to eat the pascha”? And he sent two of his disciples, and said to them, “Go into the city, and a man carrying a jar of water will meet you…” (Mark 14:12-13)

 

[buttercup]

The 4 minute mark he makes a point that everyone needs to hear

That was excellent.

He touches on a very important point, and one that is rarely brought up in these types of discussions.

What I'm talking about is our (as Christians) witness to the world and unbelievers.

Here's what people like Woodnutz, Surada, Sue, and others are missing. The world is watching us (Christians.) There are many people in this world who deeply care about animals and I know for a fact that MANY secular vegans or vegetarians (tragically) have the wrong idea about our God and are turned off to Christianity... NOT based on the actual truth, but on what they see from professed Christians, I'm talking about Christians' callous disregard for animals, and how Christians are often the ones fighting the hardest to maintain the violent status quo of this fallen world, when it comes to flesh eating.

So here's the important part that is getting missed. Christians turning people away from God because of callousness and utter disregard for God's beloved animals is something the scriptures specifically warned against, because it impedes and misleads people.

Paul talked about food being less important than love, and our witness to an unbelieving world.

"Yet if your brother is grieved because of your food, you are no longer walking in love. Do not destroy with your food the one for whom Christ died."
(Romans 14:15)

Also: "If food makes my brother stumble, I will never again eat meat, lest I make my brother stumble." (1 Corinthians 8:13)

It doesn't matter if that is in regard to eating food that was sacrificed to idols, or showing a total disregard for God's precious animals, this principle is the same: when we callously put our own desires above our witness to others, we are no longer walking in love... and in many cases, causing others to be turned off to Christianity, which is the exact opposite of what we're supposed to be doing.

The GOOD news is that the new documentary, Christspiracy, is actually bringing many non-Christians TO God, because it uncovers some amazing important truths that people with an agenda have tried to suppress for 2000 years, and it shows Jesus as He actually is - MERCIFUL, compassionate, and someone who cares about not just humans but animals as well, and showed selfless love for them too (people need to watch that film, I don't want to give it away.) Which goes along with the CCC motto that the Gospel is actually good news for ALL creation, not just humans. That is why ALL of creation is "groaning" and waiting for this wicked age to be over.

Here's a short clip from a Friday Night Live talk that I think is also worth watching:

 

[surada]

That was excellent.

He touches on a very important point, and one that is rarely brought up in these types of discussions.

What I'm talking about is our (as Christians) witness to the world and unbelievers.

Here's what people like Woodnutz, Surada, Sue, and others are missing. The world is watching us (Christians.) There are many people in this world who deeply care about animals and I know for a fact that MANY secular vegans or vegetarians (tragically) have the wrong idea about our God and are turned off to Christianity... NOT based on the actual truth, but on what they see from professed Christians, I'm talking about Christians' callous disregard for animals, and how Christians are often the ones fighting the hardest to maintain the violent status quo of this fallen world, when it comes to flesh eating.

So here's the important part that is getting missed. Christians turning people away from God because of callousness and utter disregard for God's beloved animals is something the scriptures specifically warned against, because it impedes and misleads people.

Paul talked about food being less important than love, and our witness to an unbelieving world.

"Yet if your brother is grieved because of your food, you are no longer walking in love. Do not destroy with your food the one for whom Christ died."
(Romans 14:15)

Also: "If food makes my brother stumble, I will never again eat meat, lest I make my brother stumble." (1 Corinthians 8:13)

It doesn't matter if that is in regard to eating food that was sacrificed to idols, or showing a total disregard for God's precious animals, this principle is the same: when we callously put our own desires above our witness to others, we are no longer walking in love... and in many cases, causing others to be turned off to Christianity, which is the exact opposite of what we're supposed to be doing.

The GOOD news is that the new documentary, Christspiracy, is actually bringing many non-Christians TO God, because it uncovers some amazing important truths that people with an agenda have tried to suppress for 2000 years, and it shows Jesus as He actually is - MERCIFUL, compassionate, and someone who cares about not just humans but animals as well, and showed selfless love for them too (people need to watch that film, I don't want to give it away.) Which goes along with the CCC motto that the Gospel is actually good news for ALL creation, not just humans. That is why ALL of creation is "groaning" and waiting for this wicked age to be over.

Here's a short clip from a Friday Night Live talk that I think is also worth watching:

Americans aren't the only Christians in the world... The world is watching Trump and he's not a Christian.