CDZ Is this image a problem for you? Does it disturb you?

Discussion in 'Clean Debate Zone' started by 2aguy, Jul 23, 2017.

  1. Skull Pilot
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    Skull Pilot Platinum Member

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    All of those listed can kill

    in fact fists an feet are used to kill more people every year than all rifles and shotguns combined

    and why do you assume that every time a gun is fired a person dies?
     
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  2. Nosmo King
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    Nosmo King Gold Member

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    You rely on people being "normal" a lot. In my experience, normality ain't all it's cracked up to be.

    James Madison said, "If men were angels, there would be no need for government."

    The other qualifier you often cite is the "law abiding citizen". Yet another mask of normality. It could be argued that a citizen is a law abiding citizen, right up to the point he brandished a firearm during an argument.

    Some see fists and baseball bats and knives as deadly weapons, as deadly as a handgun. But consider the designed uses for baseball bats and knives and fists. Then consider the designed purpose of a gun. Can this comparison then be taken seriously?

    Of course there will be murders and murderers. Abel down through today bears this out. But I ask, how many of your personal acquaintances have been victims of home invasion? Then think of how many of your personal acquaintances have been the unfortunate victims of a house fire. I know of a few who have suffered fire, and one of my nieces died in a fire. But no one in my experience has been the victim of violent crime, of a home invasion, of a murder by any means.

    That's my experience and I know that it only serves as anecdotal evidence. But as I said at the start, my home never had guns, nor did anyone celebrate guns. Are we woefully unprepared for violent crime? Without the presence of that threat and without the constant dread it may befall us, I firmly believe that your level of preparedness would cause us more hazard than the abstract fear itself.
     
  3. Nosmo King
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    Nosmo King Gold Member

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    In fact? Think of the carnage of war, of gunplay in our inner cities, of suicides and murders.

    Are people really kicking and stomping more folks to death than bullets?
     
  4. 2aguy
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    2aguy Diamond Member

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    I know what you believe about "law abiding" but the actual research of hundreds of years of studying criminals and murder show you are wrong. Normal people do not commit murder simply because a gun is handy. The actual research...the actual truth shows that what you think about gun owners and violence is wrong.

    JURIST - The Criminology of Firearms


    In 2004, the National Academy of Sciences reviewed 253 journal articles, 99 books, 43 government publications and some empirical research of its own about guns. The Academy could not identify any gun restriction that had reduced violent crime, suicide or gun accidents.

    Why don't gun bans work? Because they rely on voluntary compliance by gun-using criminals. Prohibitionists never see this absurdity because they deceive themselves into thinking that, as Katherine Christoffel has said: "[M]ost shootings are not committed by felons or mentally ill people, but are acts of passion that are committed using a handgun that is owned for home protection."

    Christoffel, et al., are utterly wrong. The whole corpus of criminological research dating back to the 1890'sshows murderers "almost uniformly have a long history of involvement in criminal behavior," and that "[v]irtually all" murderers and other gun criminals have prior felony records — generally long ones.

    While only 15 percent of Americans have criminal records, roughly 90 percent of adult murderers have prior adult records — exclusive of their often extensive juvenile records — with crime careers of six or more adult years including four major felonies.


    Gerald D. Robin, writing for the Academy of Criminal Justice Sciences,notes that, unlike ordinary gun owners, "the average murderer turns out to be no less hardened a criminal than the average robber or burglar."

    Public Health and Gun Control --- A Review (Part II: Gun Violence and Constitutional Issues) | Hacienda Publishing


    Another favorite view of the gun control, public health establishment is the myth propounded by Dr. Mark Rosenberg, former head of the NCIPC of the CDC, who has written: "Most of the perpetrators of violence are not criminals by trade or profession. Indeed, in the area of domestic violence, most of the perpetrators are never accused of any crime. The victims and perpetrators are ourselves --- ordinary citizens, students, professionals, and even public health workers."(6)

    That statement is contradicted by available data, government data.

    The fact is that the typical murderer has had a prior criminal history of at least six years with four felony arrests in his record before he finally commits murder.


     
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  5. 2aguy
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    2aguy Diamond Member

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    Suicide....do you realize that non gun suicide had a higher number than gun suicide two years running...and that the difference between the two is not much all the other years?

    Gun suicide..

    Leading Causes of Death | WISQARS | Injury Center | CDC

    2015
    Gun suicide...

    22,018

    Non Gun suicide...

    22,078

    ========================

    The gun play in our inner cities? It isn't law abiding gun owners doing the shooting....90% of the shooters are criminals who already can't buy, own or carry the guns they are using, and 70-80% of their victims are simply other criminals engaged in the criminal lifestyle...or their friends and family caught up in the violence....

    So...in 2015 there were 9,616 gun murders....if you take out 80% of the criminal victims.....that leaves 1,932 actual, innocent victims of gun crime....and again, some of those are freinds and family of the criminals...

    1,932 innocent victims of gun crime.....out of a country of 320,000,000 people.

    Cars accidentally killed 36,161 people......

    Americans use guns 1,500,000 times a year to stop the carnage you are talking about..the rapes, robberies and murders....taking guns away from those people just makes another 1,500,000 people victims of rape, robbery and murder....

    This is why your opinions on guns are seen as irrational...the numbers do not back up what you believe or post......
     
  6. 9thIDdoc
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    9thIDdoc Gold Member

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    Why women would feel it necessary to pack heat in their kitchen over coffee and conversation

    What makes you assume that these woman feel anything is "necessary"? People can't do things just because they want to?
    What makes you assume that these women are not LEO's and required to be armed 24/7? I think you're projecting your own fear of the unknown onto them and that makes you responsible for your own disturbance.
     
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  7. 2aguy
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    2aguy Diamond Member

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    Notice, all of those anti gunners here are not commenting on the other thread in the CDZ, the one that actually challenges them to defend their belief that it is better that these women be raped, robbed and murdered than to stop it with a gun........they always refuse to defend that position....
     
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  8. Skull Pilot
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    Skull Pilot Platinum Member

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    Yes those people causing the carnage in the inner cities get their guns illegally because they are ineligible to buy guns.

    So tell me how does restricting my rights stop those people from doing what they do?

    You are relying on the flawed default position of gun control freaks that every gun owner is a potential mass murderer simply because he owns guns.

    Using that logic I could argue that all men a potential rapists because they all have a penis or that all parents are potential child abusers because they have children or that all people who have alcohol in their homes are potential drunk drivers and because of that they all should have their rights restricted.

    And suicide is a nonissue. Suicide is not a crime it is a choice and just as many people if not more commit suicide without a gun as those who do with a gun.

    What you can't seem to understand is that I am not responsible for every crime committed with a gun simply because I happen to own guns.
     
  9. oldsoul
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    oldsoul Gold Member

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    I think we, as a nation, need to consider another aspect of this debate.

    Suppose for a moment, if you will, that all the laws that the left wants pertaining to guns are enacted, and our 2nd Amendment rights are curtailed. What next? What right would then be challenged? Criminals, by definition, will not care what laws are in place, they will do as they wish. Therefore, there will be little, if any, positive impact on crime. Want proof? Look at the crime stats for the UK for example.

    Another right that is already under attack in the 1st. Yes, I said it, the 1st is under attack and has been for some time. Don't believe me? Well, how else would you describe "hate crime" laws but an attack on the 1st Amendment right to free speech? Yet, the left holds these laws up as an example of "how far we've come". Yes, trampling on the first two amendments is great progress. Thanks alot.
     
  10. 2aguy
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    2aguy Diamond Member

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    There was already a period in human history where guns did not even exist.....and during that time, the strong enslaved the weak, and raped and murdered their way to power......it wasn't until guns came along that civilization was able to push back the barbarians and create more peace.....
     
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