Is the Republican Party or conservative ideology dead?

[Toro]

The religious right does not dominate the GOP. That's fearmongering rhetoric from the left. Nor do tax cut zealots. Whoever THEY are.

Similarly, liberals do not dominate the Democrats. You can say the same thing that the conservative press and Republican strategists have done a very good job at painting the Democrat party as dominated and controlled by liberals.

I can't remember if it was after the 2004 or 2008 GOP nominating convention, but when a poll of Republican delegates asked with what self-identified philosophical group did the delegates primarily identify, a third responded "evangelical," which was the highest of all of the ten or so categories.

If you break down the polling numbers after the 2008 election, that is roughly the same number of Democrats who identify themselves as liberals.

A third may not be dominant, but it represents a highly influential group within the party.

 

[Ravi]

It's not dead, it continues on it's downward spiral.

Yesterday on NPR Jonah Goldberg was presented as the spokesman for the "new" message of the "new" Republican party. This is the guy that claims because Hitler was a vegetarian liberals identify with him.



They've latched onto the torture platform with quite a firm grip.

 

[Skull Pilot]

What conservative ideology.

the Repudlicans abandoned conservatism years ago.

No one, I repeat no one in the so called two party system is calling for the reduction of government size and expense.

We've had one party saying that cutting taxes while increasing spending works, and we have another guy who says he's cutting taxes while increasing spending and that his strategy is somehow different from the other guy who did the same fucking thing.

And all the while more and more of our hard earned cash ends up in the government coffers to be wasted. but hey the government know how to handle your money better than you right? After all you were stupid enough to vote for more of the same disguised as change so maybe you are too fucking stupid to be trusted with your own money.

Well, only a small minority wants major cuts in programs.

Do you think if an honest conservative ran and said "I'm going to cut SS/medicaid by 1/2 so we can balance the budget without raising taxes" he have a prayer to get elected? He get about as many votes as Ron Paul got.

We need the more moderate conservatives of old who understood that Americans want reasonable safety nets, that is just a fact, but it is more important to balance the budget and will raise taxes to accomplish the old style fiscal conservativism.

Plus hold the line against the religious right wing nuts.

A moderate like that you won't find in the Republican party, and you'll find a much closer analogy in the Dems these days.

And here we go again. Jump right to the hot button issues and say cutting spending can't be done.

There is plenty of waste to be cut even before you get to SS. But the old tried and true, "We have to cut teachers cops and firemen, Oh my!" mantra gets dragged out.

And we must disagree on what "reasonable" means. To me it's reasonable to let a person keep the money he makes so as to have their own safety net and not for the fucking government to take it, say it's for our own good and then proceed to use that money to fund the biggest Ponzi scheme ever devised.

To me it's reasonable that everyone, everyone ,pay taxes. There should be a minimum income tax of say $250 a year that must be paid by everyone. No one should be exempt from any taxes.

To me it's reasonable that the 15% of my income that gets sucked into the black hole of SS should be mine to save as I see fit . I should be able to opt out of SS if I wish. I've shown many times how a person could use the 15% that government confiscates for SS to buy a privately owned disability policy that is cheaper and will pay greater benefits than anything the government provides and the remainder can be used to fund a privately owned retirement account that will yield more retirement income than what the government pays out in SS. But no one wants to listen.

The 2 party system is dead. We need new blood and new ideas and not the same old hackneyed shit that we seem to get every election cycle.

 

[Toro]

To me it's reasonable that everyone, everyone ,pay taxes. There should be a minimum income tax of say $250 a year that must be paid by everyone. No one should be exempt from any taxes.

Everyone does pay taxes, even though everyone may not pay income taxes. People pay sales taxes, property taxes, excise taxes, taxes on booze, smokes and gas, taxes on hotels, tariffs, etc.

 

[strollingbones]

only good things die young

 

[Gunny]

The religious right does not dominate the GOP. That's fearmongering rhetoric from the left. Nor do tax cut zealots. Whoever THEY are.

Similarly, liberals do not dominate the Democrats. You can say the same thing that the conservative press and Republican strategists have done a very good job at painting the Democrat party as dominated and controlled by liberals.

I can't remember if it was after the 2004 or 2008 GOP nominating convention, but when a poll of Republican delegates asked with what self-identified philosophical group did the delegates primarily identify, a third responded "evangelical," which was the highest of all of the ten or so categories.

If you break down the polling numbers after the 2008 election, that is roughly the same number of Democrats who identify themselves as liberals.

A third may not be dominant, but it represents a highly influential group within the party.

I completely agree; however, I'm sure we disagree on the reason. Leftists DO dominate the Democratic party. Liberals don't dominate anything. There is NOTHING liberal abou t the Democratic party. While it may believe in a different route in getting there, The Democrats/leftists in this country are every bit as much about power and control and forcing everyone to live by their rules as they accuse the the right of being.

There is NOTHING liberal about THAT.

 

[Gunny]

It's not dead, it continues on it's downward spiral.

Yesterday on NPR Jonah Goldberg was presented as the spokesman for the "new" message of the "new" Republican party. This is the guy that claims because Hitler was a vegetarian liberals identify with him.



They've latched onto the torture platform with quite a firm grip.

*yawn*

 

[Gunny]

What conservative ideology.

the Repudlicans abandoned conservatism years ago.

No one, I repeat no one in the so called two party system is calling for the reduction of government size and expense.

We've had one party saying that cutting taxes while increasing spending works, and we have another guy who says he's cutting taxes while increasing spending and that his strategy is somehow different from the other guy who did the same fucking thing.

And all the while more and more of our hard earned cash ends up in the government coffers to be wasted. but hey the government know how to handle your money better than you right? After all you were stupid enough to vote for more of the same disguised as change so maybe you are too fucking stupid to be trusted with your own money.

Well, only a small minority wants major cuts in programs.

Do you think if an honest conservative ran and said "I'm going to cut SS/medicaid by 1/2 so we can balance the budget without raising taxes" he have a prayer to get elected? He get about as many votes as Ron Paul got.

We need the more moderate conservatives of old who understood that Americans want reasonable safety nets, that is just a fact, but it is more important to balance the budget and will raise taxes to accomplish the old style fiscal conservativism.

Plus hold the line against the religious right wing nuts.

A moderate like that you won't find in the Republican party, and you'll find a much closer analogy in the Dems these days.

And here we go again. Jump right to the hot button issues and say cutting spending can't be done.

There is plenty of waste to be cut even before you get to SS. But the old tried and true, "We have to cut teachers cops and firemen, Oh my!" mantra gets dragged out.

And we must disagree on what "reasonable" means. To me it's reasonable to let a person keep the money he makes so as to have their own safety net and not for the fucking government to take it, say it's for our own good and then proceed to use that money to fund the biggest Ponzi scheme ever devised.

To me it's reasonable that everyone, everyone ,pay taxes. There should be a minimum income tax of say $250 a year that must be paid by everyone. No one should be exempt from any taxes.

To me it's reasonable that the 15% of my income that gets sucked into the black hole of SS should be mine to save as I see fit . I should be able to opt out of SS if I wish. I've shown many times how a person could use the 15% that government confiscates for SS to buy a privately owned disability policy that is cheaper and will pay greater benefits than anything the government provides and the remainder can be used to fund a privately owned retirement account that will yield more retirement income than what the government pays out in SS. But no one wants to listen.

The 2 party system is dead. We need new blood and new ideas and not the same old hackneyed shit that we seem to get every election cycle.

The two-party system isn't any deader than it has been at any time one of them lost its identity and had to remake its image. The death of one party or the other is announced at each and every changing of the guard. I said years ago on this very board the Dems would be back in power; yet, the rightwingnut parrots STILL yucked it up just as the leftwingnut parrots are doing now. They were the loudest whiners when out of power, and will be the loudest ones when this all rolls back around.

In the meantime, while the political machine keeps "we, the people", mesmerized by who is best and who wil live and die, they continue to line their own pockets and have turned the US government into an out of control hydra that's pushing further and further into our personal lives and infringing on our rights. With the blessing of "we, the people" in the name of blind, partisan politics.

Hey, it beats having to actually think, and actually caters to the leftist philosophy that Big Brother needs to do that for us anyway.

 

[Skull Pilot]

To me it's reasonable that everyone, everyone ,pay taxes. There should be a minimum income tax of say $250 a year that must be paid by everyone. No one should be exempt from any taxes.

Everyone does pay taxes, even though everyone may not pay income taxes. People pay sales taxes, property taxes, excise taxes, taxes on booze, smokes and gas, taxes on hotels, tariffs, etc.

No one should be exempt from any taxes. Income tax included.

 

[Skull Pilot]

In the meantime, while the political machine keeps "we, the people", mesmerized by who is best and who will live and die, they continue to line their own pockets and have turned the US government into an out of control hydra that's pushing further and further into our personal lives and infringing on our rights. With the blessing of "we, the people" in the name of blind, partisan politics.

Hey, it beats having to actually think, and actually caters to the leftist philosophy that Big Brother needs to do that for us anyway.

I couldn't have said it better

 

[editec]

FWIW, I do not think of the current philosophy of the Republican party even remotely conservative as I understand the meaning of the term.

 

[Skull Pilot]

FWIW, I do not think of the current philosophy of the Republican party even remotely conservative as I understand the meaning of the term.

You are correct sir.

When I say conservative,I mean fiscally conservative. I don't give a rat's ass if someone fucks chickens in his living room, or has sex with his wife or gay lover or shemale hooker while hanging from a chandelier. I don't care if someone smokes a joint or drops acid for fun. All I want is for people to be 100% responsible for the consequences of their actions.

So I am definitely not a conservative in the accepted definition but I call myself conservative for my stand on smaller less expensive less intrusive government.

 

[DamnYankee]

FWIW, I do not think of the current philosophy of the Republican party even remotely conservative as I understand the meaning of the term.

You are correct sir.

When I say conservative,I mean fiscally conservative. I don't give a rat's ass if someone fucks chickens in his living room, or has sex with his wife or gay lover or shemale hooker while hanging from a chandelier. I don't care if someone smokes a joint or drops acid for fun. All I want is for people to be 100% responsible for the consequences of their actions.

So I am definitely not a conservative in the accepted definition but I call myself conservative for my stand on smaller less expensive less intrusive government.

I believe it's THOSE conservatives who have Washington and the media in a dither... The ones who decided to send try to a message via their Tea Parties, in a peaceful "revolt".

"Ahhh...." they ask, "Why was there no revolution until Obama took office?"

It's really quite simple. It's revolting that a President who campaigned on a platform of CHANGE has managed to hoodwink so many, when there is no evidence of change at all when it comes to fiscal responsibility, in this case.

 

[sealybobo]

FWIW, I do not think of the current philosophy of the Republican party even remotely conservative as I understand the meaning of the term.

You are correct sir.

When I say conservative,I mean fiscally conservative. I don't give a rat's ass if someone fucks chickens in his living room, or has sex with his wife or gay lover or shemale hooker while hanging from a chandelier. I don't care if someone smokes a joint or drops acid for fun. All I want is for people to be 100% responsible for the consequences of their actions.

So I am definitely not a conservative in the accepted definition but I call myself conservative for my stand on smaller less expensive less intrusive government.

I believe it's THOSE conservatives who have Washington and the media in a dither... The ones who decided to send try to a message via their Tea Parties, in a peaceful "revolt".

"Ahhh...." they ask, "Why was there no revolution until Obama took office?"

It's really quite simple. It's revolting that a President who campaigned on a platform of CHANGE has managed to hoodwink so many, when there is no evidence of change at all when it comes to fiscal responsibility, in this case.

He is being fiscally responsible. If your home is falling apart, do you call yourself fiscally irresponsible when you pay to have it fixed? No.

But what if you need to cut back on spending and every weekend you go to a gun show and buy yourself a new gun? Hell, you don't even pay for it. You just put it on your credit card. That's what Bush did.

Obama's spending is to get us out of a financial crisis. You are not an economist. Most economist say the stimulus bill is a good idea and necessary.

But as for cutting wasteful spending, Obama is already doing that.

You right wingers are insane. Keep it up.

 

[editec]

FWIW, I do not think of the current philosophy of the Republican party even remotely conservative as I understand the meaning of the term.

You are correct sir.

When I say conservative,I mean fiscally conservative. I don't give a rat's ass if someone fucks chickens in his living room, or has sex with his wife or gay lover or shemale hooker while hanging from a chandelier. I don't care if someone smokes a joint or drops acid for fun. All I want is for people to be 100% responsible for the consequences of their actions.

So I am definitely not a conservative in the accepted definition but I call myself conservative for my stand on smaller less expensive less intrusive government.

I'm all for a smaller less intrusive government, too.

Who isn't, except those who directly benefit from the intrusive large government?

And as should be very obvious, that group of people who do benefit from large inefficient or outright opressive government wear both R and D hats.

The devil is always in the details, of course.

But if you want to find the DETAILS of corruption all one need do is follow the money.

 

[Skull Pilot]

You are correct sir.

When I say conservative,I mean fiscally conservative. I don't give a rat's ass if someone fucks chickens in his living room, or has sex with his wife or gay lover or shemale hooker while hanging from a chandelier. I don't care if someone smokes a joint or drops acid for fun. All I want is for people to be 100% responsible for the consequences of their actions.

So I am definitely not a conservative in the accepted definition but I call myself conservative for my stand on smaller less expensive less intrusive government.

I believe it's THOSE conservatives who have Washington and the media in a dither... The ones who decided to send try to a message via their Tea Parties, in a peaceful "revolt".

"Ahhh...." they ask, "Why was there no revolution until Obama took office?"

It's really quite simple. It's revolting that a President who campaigned on a platform of CHANGE has managed to hoodwink so many, when there is no evidence of change at all when it comes to fiscal responsibility, in this case.

He is being fiscally responsible. If your home is falling apart, do you call yourself fiscally irresponsible when you pay to have it fixed? No.

But what if you need to cut back on spending and every weekend you go to a gun show and buy yourself a new gun? Hell, you don't even pay for it. You just put it on your credit card. That's what Bush did.

Obama's spending is to get us out of a financial crisis. You are not an economist. Most economist say the stimulus bill is a good idea and necessary.

But as for cutting wasteful spending, Obama is already doing that.

You right wingers are insane. Keep it up.

And you sir are a moron.

the CBO predicts that Obama will have the debt up to nearly 80% of GDP in the next ten years.

And Obama bases his numbers on a nearly 4% growth in GDP over the next few years. When was the last time we had a sustained 4% annual rise in GDP????

the fucking guy is smoking crack if he thinks his numbers work. And you're too fucking busy smoking Obama's dick to do the math

 

[Iriemon]

I believe it's THOSE conservatives who have Washington and the media in a dither... The ones who decided to send try to a message via their Tea Parties, in a peaceful "revolt".

"Ahhh...." they ask, "Why was there no revolution until Obama took office?"

It's really quite simple. It's revolting that a President who campaigned on a platform of CHANGE has managed to hoodwink so many, when there is no evidence of change at all when it comes to fiscal responsibility, in this case.

He is being fiscally responsible. If your home is falling apart, do you call yourself fiscally irresponsible when you pay to have it fixed? No.

But what if you need to cut back on spending and every weekend you go to a gun show and buy yourself a new gun? Hell, you don't even pay for it. You just put it on your credit card. That's what Bush did.

Obama's spending is to get us out of a financial crisis. You are not an economist. Most economist say the stimulus bill is a good idea and necessary.

But as for cutting wasteful spending, Obama is already doing that.

You right wingers are insane. Keep it up.

And you sir are a moron.

the CBO predicts that Obama will have the debt up to nearly 80% of GDP in the next ten years.

And Obama bases his numbers on a nearly 4% growth in GDP over the next few years. When was the last time we had a sustained 4% annual rise in GDP????

The five years 1995-2000 when Clinton was president.

 

[sealybobo]

I believe it's THOSE conservatives who have Washington and the media in a dither... The ones who decided to send try to a message via their Tea Parties, in a peaceful "revolt".

"Ahhh...." they ask, "Why was there no revolution until Obama took office?"

It's really quite simple. It's revolting that a President who campaigned on a platform of CHANGE has managed to hoodwink so many, when there is no evidence of change at all when it comes to fiscal responsibility, in this case.

He is being fiscally responsible. If your home is falling apart, do you call yourself fiscally irresponsible when you pay to have it fixed? No.

But what if you need to cut back on spending and every weekend you go to a gun show and buy yourself a new gun? Hell, you don't even pay for it. You just put it on your credit card. That's what Bush did.

Obama's spending is to get us out of a financial crisis. You are not an economist. Most economist say the stimulus bill is a good idea and necessary.

But as for cutting wasteful spending, Obama is already doing that.

You right wingers are insane. Keep it up.

And you sir are a moron.

the CBO predicts that Obama will have the debt up to nearly 80% of GDP in the next ten years.

And Obama bases his numbers on a nearly 4% growth in GDP over the next few years. When was the last time we had a sustained 4% annual rise in GDP????

the fucking guy is smoking crack if he thinks his numbers work. And you're to fucking busy smoking Obama's dick to do the math

Cheney said deficits don't matter. I'm simply trusting Cheney at his word.

PS. We can spend all we want, if the spending goes towards good programs. Then once we are back on course, we can cut spending where needed.

If you don't like the results, go vote in 2012. Until then, shut the fuck up.

 

[Iriemon]

He is being fiscally responsible. If your home is falling apart, do you call yourself fiscally irresponsible when you pay to have it fixed? No.

But what if you need to cut back on spending and every weekend you go to a gun show and buy yourself a new gun? Hell, you don't even pay for it. You just put it on your credit card. That's what Bush did.

Obama's spending is to get us out of a financial crisis. You are not an economist. Most economist say the stimulus bill is a good idea and necessary.

But as for cutting wasteful spending, Obama is already doing that.

You right wingers are insane. Keep it up.

And you sir are a moron.

the CBO predicts that Obama will have the debt up to nearly 80% of GDP in the next ten years.

And Obama bases his numbers on a nearly 4% growth in GDP over the next few years. When was the last time we had a sustained 4% annual rise in GDP????

the fucking guy is smoking crack if he thinks his numbers work. And you're to fucking busy smoking Obama's dick to do the math

Cheney said deficits don't matter. I'm simply trusting Cheney at his word.

Good point. Now there's a true conservative.

But of course that didn't stop he expressing his concern about the Obama deficits they other day. What a freaking hypocrite.

 

[amrchaos]

The Republican party, nor conservatism is dead.

They had a horrible president and VP leading this nation with die hard Repub-heads claiming Bush/Cheney are ultraconservatives.

Now, realizing that holding onto the Bush/Cheney direction and propaganda was electorial poison in 2006-08, the GOP is trying everything they can to rid themselves of Neo-cons and the Christian Right.

(Personally, if they create a rift with the CR, the GOP is deader than a doorknob!! The Democrats are beginning to warm up to them now and soon, we will see Bra burning Pro-lifers on motorcycles!! Can you imagine it?)

GOP is regrouping, but they are flailing wildly a bit too soon.