Is taxation voluntary?

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Kevin_Kennedy, Dec 12, 2010.

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Is taxation voluntary?

  1. Yes

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  2. No

    70.0%
  3. Other

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  1. Kevin_Kennedy
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    Kevin_Kennedy Defend Liberty

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    Some think that because we have a "representative" republic or democracy or whatever you want to call it that taxation is somehow voluntary or consensual. My question is do you think that taxation is voluntary? Now I'm not asking whether you think taxation is moral or immoral, just whether it's voluntary.

    My opinion is that taxation is not voluntary because for something to be voluntary you have to be able to choose not to do it. Since you cannot choose not to pay taxes without being thrown in prison it is clearly not voluntary. loosecannon is of the opinion that because you sign a paper prior to employment that allows the government a portion of your income that you're consenting to being taxed, but I disagree. For one this doesn't cover all forms of taxation, and two you have no other choice but to sign this paper. The government has made it illegal to work without giving them a cut of your income so you are forced by law to sign this paper or you can't legally work. If you can't work you can't live so there's obviously no choice there.

    Taxes are clearly coercive, not voluntary.

    What do you think?
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2010
  2. william the wie
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    william the wie Gold Member

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    Obviously true for wages but given all the loopholes in the tax code for other forms of income more or less voluntary.
     
  3. Madeline
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    Madeline BANNED

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    It's a "how many angels can dance on the head of pin" question. You are correct, Kevin, and loosecanon is also correct.

    Here's a question for you: why does it matter? We all have a patriotic duty to pay our taxes. That some of us have to be shoved around to comply doesn't alter that fact.
     
  4. shintao
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    shintao Take Down ~ Tap Out

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    Seems I have heard Ron Paul spout illegal, gold & silver only, 1913, and others say the tax code was never ratified by the states. I do know, if you don't pay your taxes your headed for prison, so..........
     
  5. JFK_USA
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    JFK_USA Gold Member

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    Benjamin Franklin said it best "'In this world nothing can be said to be certain, except death and taxes."

    Taxes is the cost of a civilized society. Countries that don't have alot of taxes or tax revenue usually has very unstable governments. Its just a fact. To have a stable military, stable society, you must have government. You must have some sort of stability to have life be as calm as possible. Libertarians, Tea Party people obviously have no capacity of intellect to understand the importance of government.

    No, taxes are not voluntary. And if you don't pay them on time, you should not be able to negotiate a lower rate because you didn't pay them. That's ridiculous.
     
  6. Kevin_Kennedy
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    Kevin_Kennedy Defend Liberty

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    Well I certainly don't agree that we have a patriotic duty to pay taxes, but it matters in the same way anything we talk about on this message board does. It's simply something to discuss. I don't see how we can both be correct, however, since we're essentially saying the opposite.
     
  7. shintao
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    Why do you feel it is a "patriotic duty?" That is like saying, well if you are going to hang me, here is my best rope for the occasion. LOL!:eusa_angel:

    You really have to give symapathy to the devil here, and people who want nothing from government. I think we should give them the state of Utah & cut off federal taxes and federal spending. And build a barbed wire fence to keep them inside, to make sure when they turn 80 they aren't slipping onto the federal side to rob benefits they didn't support. Works for me.:eusa_angel:
     
  8. Madeline
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    I'm all for philosophical discussions, Kevin. Not bashing the Op, just probing. What would be the value of determining that taxes are not paid voluntarily?

    Why do you not feel paying them is a patriotic duty? If Congress entertained a Bill Gates Need Never Pay Another Dime bill, would you support it?
     
  9. Madeline
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    We cannot even give them Utah, or any other piece of land, if they have not at least got enough rudimentary government to accept and record the gift, shintao. If humans insist on living in groups, there is a common cost of doing so they must all bear in one fashion or another.
     
  10. Kevin_Kennedy
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    Kevin_Kennedy Defend Liberty

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    To make people think about the nature of government in general as compared to our own government which purports to be "representative." Does it somehow make paying taxes voluntary if you have a representative government? Some think so. So let's find out why.

    I didn't say not paying them was a patriotic duty, just that I didn't agree that paying them was a patriotic duty. Yes, I would support that. However, I would much rather everybody be exempted than just one person.
     
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