james bond
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- Oct 17, 2015
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Atheists always claim they have to have evidence that God exists, but history shows us different. Once you provide the evidence, then they end up forgetting like that which happened to Jesus Christ or they want even more evidence such that every atheist must be convinced.
The Bible says otherwise. The existence of God cannot be proved or disproved. The Bible says that we must accept by faith the fact that God exists:
"Jesus performed countless miracles, yet the vast majority of people did not believe in Him. If God performed miracles today as He did in the past, the result would be the same. People would be amazed and would believe in God for a short time. That faith would be shallow and would disappear the moment something unexpected or frightening occurred. A faith based on miracles is not a mature faith. God performed the greatest “God miracle” of all time in coming to earth as the Man Jesus Christ to die on the cross for our sins (Romans 5:8) so that we could be saved (John 3:16). God does still perform miracles—many of them simply go unnoticed or are denied. However, we do not need more miracles. What we need is to believe in the miracle of salvation through faith in Jesus Christ."
Does God still perform miracles?
Lawrence Krauss is a professor of physics at Arizona State University. He said evidence for God would be as follows.
"Now, it would be easy to have evidence for God. If the stars rearrange themselves tonight and I looked up tonight—well not here, but in a place where you could see the stars, in Arizona, say,—and I looked up tonight and I saw the stars rearrange themselves say, “I am here.”
The Craig - Krauss Debate at North Carolina State University | Reasonable Faith
Later, another atheist responded that he would not accept the stars rearranging themselves because people south of the equator would not be able to see this.
Thus, the only way I see to convince every single atheist is pain and suffering. If they knew God brought this upon them, then they would have to believe. It's like they brought it upon themselves. You asked for it. You got it. Of course, this is what I think happens in the afterlife. The existence of God cannot be proved or disproved in this life.
I have a video on pain and suffering. Maybe this is one of the methods.
So you're saying that because we feel pain, which is literally a way of our body telling our brain something's gone wrong, that God exists?
You know the Venus fly trap plants. Well, they react to flies, does this "prove that God exists" too?
I'm just waiting to tell me why if God has to exist because things are so complex and nothing can just appear out of nowhere, why God apparently appeared out of nowhere and who created this God.
Well, I was looking at it from the pov as a Christian that atheists want *proof* of God before they believe he exists. However, there won't be any proof because God stated that we have to have faith that he exists.
Lawrence Krauss said in the debate with Craig that he'll reconsider if a miracle occurred of the stars aligning to spell, "I'm here" or something to that effect. However, an astute atheist claimed that that isn't enough. The atheists in the other half of the hemisphere to Arizona would not see it. I thought this atheist said the only thing intelligent about atheism, i.e. someone would have to convince every single atheist and not just one, a few or many.
As for your Venus Fly Trap analogy, that's a fly or insect and we do not know if it feels pain in the trap. However, let's say God captures it and tears off its wings one-at-a-time and then moves to the legs one-at-a-time. Will the fly be more likely to believe if it could could communicate at a rudimentary level that it was in pain and does believe? I mean in this world, what would convince every single fly that God exists and is showing his power?
So, you're basically saying you have no proof, but people should just accept what you say simply because you say it?
So you don't know if a fly feels pain, but you know God exists.
Why can't you just believe a fly feels pain the same way you believe God exists.
Whatever, we're not talking about the fly, but the plant. The plant will MOVE, which means the plant is receiving messages from other parts of the plant, which is the same as how we feel pain
You are all over the board and either deliberately do not understand what I said or are having reading comprehension problems. You are reducing what I said. I did not say that I have no proof. What I said was people have to have faith first.
I did not say a fly feels no pain. It should feel pain when its wings are ripped off or its legs are ripped off. Isn't that the purpose of making the fly believe you are more powerful, that you exist and do not like what its doing? Otherwise, ti will just go on its way and lay larvae in your food and bring germs into your environment. Your plant is a death trap. Bug spray is to cause pain and death. You can swat the fly or use sticky fly paper as a death trap.
As for the plant, it's seeking food. The fly and other insects are its food. So, my analogy is better than yours.
What I said was one has to have faith in the God of Christianity. What happens after that is he will reveal himself and you will find the truth.
Now, what is the point of the plant and its messages? It's isn't the same as how we feel pain, is it? Is that what you're claiming ha ha?
No, I read what you wrote perfectly.
When you write "However, there won't be any proof" it kind of makes people think that you don't have any proof. I mean, that is basically what you said, right?
Yes, people have to have faith first. They have to be willing to believe, to accept what they've been told and not to bother with the mumbojumbo of actually having evidence of things.
Why do you think someone like Trump does really well in a country like the US where 3/4 people are religious to some extent?
Because they've already had their minds open to accepting complete crap that someone told them and reinforces what they want to believe, and to easily reject that which is real because it's not convenient.
So flies might feel pain. Probably do, I mean pain is merely a communication from one part of the body to another. So what? It doesn't prove anything to do with any god in any way. It merely means their body communicates with its brain.
So, your argument is that first you have to have the faith to then believe in the god. That if you're not into faith, then you're never going to believe in god because, quite frankly, he's made up.
I mean, you have to be open to made up shit in order to be open to God. Is that more or less your argument?
Yes, what the fuck is the point of the whole message thing with flies and plants? It's your shitty argument here about pain proving the existence of God, somehow. I didn't get it.
You may only think you understand what I wrote perfectly. Because in the following sentence...
No. What I was saying was there won't be any proof because God designed it that way. He gave us free will and John 3:16 for today's humans. It is equivalent to the tree of knowledge and Adam & Eve. You keep getting it wrong because you do not have faith in God and think it's BS/mythology when deep down you know I'm right or, more accurately, the Bible is right; It's God's Word. You have no proof of a universe from nothing or how non-life begat life. Neither do you have proof of multiverses. So, who believes in "mythology?" It's faith-based science. Maybe it's better to think there's something to the Bible and investigate for yourself like I did. I read the science parts first and compared to evolution (evolution.berkeley.edu). Even Stephen Hawking died trying to show multiverses because of the fine-tuning facts. He's screaming his arse off and it will probably get worse..
Faith doesn't work like what you think at all.
Instead of RELIGION, you should look at things in terms of WORLDVIEW. Religion gives one the thinking/feeling that it's only faith-based to make one feel good and think their worldview is correct. Think in terms of what is true and what is false. The thing I tell atheists is to ask themselves, "Is this all there is?" I asked myself that when I was entering college. It doesn't make sense that life is so short and one can't take their accomplishments and riches with them. Once you die, then it means nothing.
I'll stand by my argument. In order to convince every single atheist (this includes agnostics and other false idol believers) the best way to convince them is p&s. It's fast. It's direct. It's the only way people won't forget. It's what God said.
To give you an anecdote, someone posted a news story of what many believers thought was a miracle. The facts of the case did not add up to another possibility. Of course, the non-believers of the Bible thought different. There is nothing that will convince these people otherwise. We already know because of what Jesus went though when he was here. There are people who doubt the historicity of Jesus. Thus, p&s seems like the best way in the second life. One can't use it in this life as one will be breaking the law.