Is Israel in deep stuff?

[amity1844]

Corey Gil-Schuster is an Israeli advocate of peace and a pretty cool guy.

He has done a series of You Tube videos he calls "Ask an Israeli" that are interesting. YOU get to propose questions to him for him to go ask Israelis or any specific subgroup thereof.

This installment he asks so called "Israeli Arabs" (Palestinians with Israeli citizenship) their reaction to proposals for them to serve on a voluntary basis in the IDF.

I want to see if you see what I see in this video. Look past the demurrals and big toe in the sand hemming and hawing. I am not sure how much of my take may have to do with maybe a sensitivity to non-verbal body language cues that are particular to Arab culture -- versus how how much is universal and will be obvious to all of you.



I believe that, just as Rabbi Yaakov Shapiro said, trying to get these people to join the military is an attempt to get them where they can be brainwashed -- i.e. culture wars. There is no other reason for Israel to do it.

More later.

 

[MHunterB]

So Hostility believes the same as that asshole extremist fanatic: why would anyone be surprised.

Once again: belief is not fact: feelings have no truth value.

 

[amity1844]

MHunterB-

We are not here to debate quantum mechanics, objectivity v. subjectivity.

But let me point out that nearly everything people do in the social/political sphere is based on their perceptions and feelings. NOT on compulsion.

One thing about this video really made me laugh. Despite being essentially cut off from mainstream Arab culture for over 65 years, these kids still preface every other phrase with "yaani" Even in Hebrew.

 

[MHunterB]

What's 'compulsion' got to do with the situation? These people are not being COMPELLED or REQUIRED.

Do you have a reference for your contention that "nearly everything people do in the social/political sphere is based on their perceptions and feelings" ? Or did you just make that up?

 

[Lipush]

There is no such thing "Palestinian with Israeli citizenship".

Either you're an Israeli or a Palestinian.

"Palestinian with Israeli citizenship" is an invention of traitors and fools.

 

[MHunterB]

MHunterB-

We are not here to debate quantum mechanics, objectivity v. subjectivity.

But let me point out that nearly everything people do in the social/political sphere is based on their perceptions and feelings. NOT on compulsion.

One thing about this video really made me laugh. Despite being essentially cut off from mainstream Arab culture for over 65 years, these kids still preface every other phrase with "yaani" Even in Hebrew.

Oh, pooor Hostility! She can't control what others post, and that makes her cranky. You can only speak for your own self - remember?

You do not have the right to speak for me or anyone else unless someone gives you that right. So don't presume to dictate to me why I'm here..... nothing says I have to be here to discuss exactly what you insist and demand be discussed. Given that you've not been exactly cooperative with others around here, I see NO reason to let you slide on that - or anything else.

 

[Lipush]

Corey Gil-Schuster is an Israeli advocate of peace and a pretty cool guy.

He has done a series of You Tube videos he calls "Ask an Israeli" that are interesting. YOU get to propose questions to him for him to go ask Israelis or any specific subgroup thereof.

This installment he asks so called "Israeli Arabs" (Palestinians with Israeli citizenship) their reaction to proposals for them to serve on a voluntary basis in the IDF.

I want to see if you see what I see in this video. Look past the demurrals and big toe in the sand hemming and hawing. I am not sure how much of my take may have to do with maybe a sensitivity to non-verbal body language cues that are particular to Arab culture -- versus how how much is universal and will be obvious to all of you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R348qicB2hk

I believe that, just as Rabbi Yaakov Shapiro said, trying to get these people to join the military is an attempt to get them where they can be brainwashed -- i.e. culture wars. There is no other reason for Israel to do it.

More later.

I again get the feeling that you "recieve" information from fools, liars, both fools and liars and/or people with no real knowledge.

There are many Arabs who serve in the Israeli military. Their numbers are on the rise. It is not by law, that they must serve the army, that's true, and some of them object because they do not wish to get into a situation when they fight other Arabs. Which is understandable

But "brainwashed"? the IDF doesn't brainwash anyone. Most of the boys and girls at the age of 18 already have a very stricked opinion about the conflict. Whatever this opinion may be.

Just so you know, I did my military service, and I was a very dedicated soldier; My own superior and commander, her name was Natalie. She was an Arab from Haifa.

And she was 10 times more Zionist than 99% of the Israelis I got to know. The IDF didn't BRAINWASH her; By her view, she was Israeli, not Palestinian. And since she was Israeli, she wished to walk the same path more Israelis do.

She told me more than once, 'Those Palestinians who bomb and kill, they'll kill me without thinking, like they'd kill any other Israeli.' And they will. Most of the times, they don't care enough to ask if the victim is Jewish or Muslim or Christian. Each time they hurt, they hurt people she cared about, and possibly might hurt her.

In her house, you'd find the Israeli flag waved. She was proud to be an IDF officer, and I had such an admiration toward her, because she saw reason where others prefered not to.

 

[teddyearp]

Hmm. Actually amity, that was a fairly good video. I don't know how much it really advanced some of your opinions nor how it relates to "Israel being in big stuff". Did you actually watch the whole thing? I suppose you did, but perhaps I got a much different take from it.

Before I continue; in light of all your posts that I have read here, I suggest that you should perhaps make a distinction between "Palestinians" as they relate to your numerous posts about genetics and maybe make another category in your mind and call them the "New Palestinians". I hope I don't have to clarify much, suffice it to say that these are those post 1967-ish. If it comes to mind I will certainly refer to them as such in any of my firther posts.

Because the one older man did say (in Hebrew) that 'we are all Palestinians". I took that as a reference to the 'old' use of the term.

So in this light, I would agree, as should you since you have visited and lived in Israel, that there is no such thing as a Palestinian Israeli. That said, the video interviewed several Arab Israelis. And they gave their wide and varied views of what kind of service they would give to the State of Israel.

You did lose me on this one point:

trying to get these people to join the military is an attempt to get them where they can be brainwashed

There was one person in your video that supported your view, but in the real world, and honestly; I think there's a bit of that on both sides.

p.s. I learned a few more Hebrew phrases and words, thanks.

p.s.s. If they were really (New) Palestinians, I highly doubt that any of the conversations would have been in Hebrew. I say this because when I was in the Muslim quarter of the Old City, they really did not appreciate me talking in Hebrew. One child made a slashing at the neck motion when I did, lol.

Most of the conversations in your video were in Ivreet, some Angleet, and (correct me if I'm wrong anyone) there might have been one in Arabic.

 

[Roudy]

Is this another youtube masturbation to the destruction of Israel IslamoNazi fantasy thread?

Great I'm going to get front row and watch the entertaining internet show of Enmity humiliating itself.

 

[Phoenall]

MHunterB-

We are not here to debate quantum mechanics, objectivity v. subjectivity.

But let me point out that nearly everything people do in the social/political sphere is based on their perceptions and feelings. NOT on compulsion.

One thing about this video really made me laugh. Despite being essentially cut off from mainstream Arab culture for over 65 years, these kids still preface every other phrase with "yaani" Even in Hebrew.

You are taking the words of ultra extremist Jews that number less than 1% of the worlds Jews over those of the conservative Jews that comprise 99% of the worlds Jews. These extremists believe that on the appointed day the messiah will return and destroy all the world and its people paving the way for these few Jews to ascend to heaven. The self same extremist Jews that do not see why they should do any activity to support Israel are the first to call upon Israel to defend them from attack. They could still adhere to their principles by acting as cooks, medical orderlies, typists, radio operators, messengers, drivers and mechanics and not taking on any combat roles.

Now how about the Palestinians that refuse to fight against Israel and just want a quiet peaceful life. What do you think happens to them when they voice their opinion, what barbaric and bloodthirsty action is taken by the Palestinians against them do you think.

 

[Phoenall]

There is no such thing "Palestinian with Israeli citizenship".

Either you're an Israeli or a Palestinian.

"Palestinian with Israeli citizenship" is an invention of traitors and fools.

If that is how any of them view themselves then they should be asked to make the choice now Israeli without Palestinian citizenship, or Palestinian without Israel citizenship.

Should cause some heartache for many of the arab muslim Israelis that see themselves as Palestinians when they are evicted from Israel as traitors.

 

[amity1844]

I believe that, just as Rabbi Yaakov Shapiro said, trying to get these people to join the military is an attempt to get them where they can be brainwashed -- i.e. culture wars. There is no other reason for Israel to do it.

I again get the feeling that you "recieve" information from fools, liars, both fools and liars and/or people with no real knowledge.

I before e except after c.

There are many Arabs who serve in the Israeli military. Their numbers are on the rise. It is not by law, that they must serve the army, that's true, and some of them object because they do not wish to get into a situation when they fight other Arabs. Which is understandable

Well, that part wasn't directly what interested me so much about this film.

But "brainwashed"? the IDF doesn't brainwash anyone.
[/quote
Well, SOCIALIZED would probably have been a better choice of words. but it amounts to the same thing. Culture wars.

Most of the boys and girls at the age of 18 already have a very stricked opinion about the conflict. Whatever this opinion may be.

Just so you know, I did my military service, and I was a very dedicated soldier; My own superior and commander, her name was Natalie. She was an Arab from Haifa.
admiration toward her, because she saw reason where others prefered not to.

Yes, I am sure they are out there, but a very small minority. Among the Druze it is different. I thought the Druze man was very articulate about that. (Ironically, the Druze in Lebanon despise Israel in general, or did).

Now did anyone notice anything else?

 

[amity1844]

What's 'compulsion' got to do with the situation? These people are not being COMPELLED or REQUIRED.

No, I was just speaking as the poli sci person I am.

so when you say

belief is not fact: feelings have no truth value

what did you mean? I assumed the opposite of belief was compulsion.

My point is that people act according to perception, beliefs, values.

 

[aris2chat]

MHunterB-

We are not here to debate quantum mechanics, objectivity v. subjectivity.

But let me point out that nearly everything people do in the social/political sphere is based on their perceptions and feelings. NOT on compulsion.

One thing about this video really made me laugh. Despite being essentially cut off from mainstream Arab culture for over 65 years, these kids still preface every other phrase with "yaani" Even in Hebrew.

You are taking the words of ultra extremist Jews that number less than 1% of the worlds Jews over those of the conservative Jews that comprise 99% of the worlds Jews. These extremists believe that on the appointed day the messiah will return and destroy all the world and its people paving the way for these few Jews to ascend to heaven. The self same extremist Jews that do not see why they should do any activity to support Israel are the first to call upon Israel to defend them from attack. They could still adhere to their principles by acting as cooks, medical orderlies, typists, radio operators, messengers, drivers and mechanics and not taking on any combat roles.

Now how about the Palestinians that refuse to fight against Israel and just want a quiet peaceful life. What do you think happens to them when they voice their opinion, what barbaric and bloodthirsty action is taken by the Palestinians against them do you think.

There are several words that are the same or similar between arabic, aramaic and hebrews. Yanni is not strictly arabic.
This is what you take from the video? A common word?

 

[irosie91]

Corey Gil-Schuster is an Israeli advocate of peace and a pretty cool guy.

He has done a series of You Tube videos he calls "Ask an Israeli" that are interesting. YOU get to propose questions to him for him to go ask Israelis or any specific subgroup thereof.

This installment he asks so called "Israeli Arabs" (Palestinians with Israeli citizenship) their reaction to proposals for them to serve on a voluntary basis in the IDF.

I want to see if you see what I see in this video. Look past the demurrals and big toe in the sand hemming and hawing. I am not sure how much of my take may have to do with maybe a sensitivity to non-verbal body language cues that are particular to Arab culture -- versus how how much is universal and will be obvious to all of you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R348qicB2hk

I believe that, just as Rabbi Yaakov Shapiro said, trying to get these people to join the military is an attempt to get them where they can be brainwashed -- i.e. culture wars. There is no other reason for Israel to do it.

More later.

More now. Rabbi Yaakov Shapiro said "trying to get these people (in this case muslim
citizens of Israel) to join the military is an attempt to get them where they can be brainwashed???
Amity do you have a link to that statement???? To be candid----I do not believe you.
I think (know) that you invented that idea-------Rabbi Yaakov Shapiro never commented on
the issue of muslim citizens of Israel serving in the Israeli army------why are you Inventing??? '

The truth is not good enough for you?

 

[amity1844]

There is no such thing "Palestinian with Israeli citizenship".

Either you're an Israeli or a Palestinian.

"Palestinian with Israeli citizenship" is an invention of traitors and fools.

ya know, what, Lipush? They get to call themselves what eeeeever they want.
That's about the most basic principle of self-determination there is.

And if you read the summary of Abunimah's article you know that citizenship means nothing. Arabs are lacking in basic rights. until a generation or so ago they were still under martial law. So there is no possibility of using the simple term "Israeli" without he qualifier if one is Palestinian.

 

[amity1844]

MHunterB-

We are not here to debate quantum mechanics, objectivity v. subjectivity.

But let me point out that nearly everything people do in the social/political sphere is based on their perceptions and feelings. NOT on compulsion.

One thing about this video really made me laugh. Despite being essentially cut off from mainstream Arab culture for over 65 years, these kids still preface every other phrase with "yaani" Even in Hebrew.

Oh, pooor Hostility! She can't control what others post, and that makes her cranky. You can only speak for your own self - remember?

You do not have the right to speak for me or anyone else unless someone gives you that right. So don't presume to dictate to me why I'm here..... nothing says I have to be here to discuss exactly what you insist and demand be discussed. Given that you've not been exactly cooperative with others around here, I see NO reason to let you slide on that - or anything else.

I wouldn't in my worst nightmares want to speak for you.
Stay on topic or start another thread. Those are the rules.

 

[Lipush]

There is no such thing "Palestinian with Israeli citizenship".

Either you're an Israeli or a Palestinian.

"Palestinian with Israeli citizenship" is an invention of traitors and fools.

ya know, what, Lipush? They get to call themselves what eeeeever they want.
That's about the most basic principle of self-determination there is.

And if you read the summary of Abunimah's article you know that citizenship means nothing. Arabs are lacking in basic rights. until a generation or so ago they were still under martial law. So there is no possibility of using the simple term "Israeli" without he qualifier if one is Palestinian.

If they want to have blue IDs, then they don't get to call themselves "whatever they want".

Because if you want to live under our law, and get rights, you need to be LOYAL. If I want to become an American citizen, they'll check my loyalty first. That's how it's done in any normal-functioning society.

And if you want do define yourself as a Palestinian, please, by our guest; but then you won't get blue ID.

It really is THAT simple.

You don't get to be under our protection and citizenship if you're a traitor. It's not too much to ask for. really, it's not.

And what you say is TOTAL BULLSHIT. Arabs in Israel have the very same rights as any other Israeli! The fact that they can get elected to our government, and then stab us in the back, cried louder than words!

They can live in almost every Israeli city they wish, but Jews are unwelcome in Arab cities! JEWS are afraid to walk down the streets of certain villages, while Arabs are SAFE in each Israeli city!

So cut the crap! the main FACT is, that if they can cry out how they're the poor victims, and those cries are heard, say just how much we're NOT racists.

Seriously, the Arab whining sometimes just crosses every good line!!