Is Global warming a Hoax?

[Zander]

 

[JimH52]

So cartoons are convincing scientific evidence of a coverup? Please...

 

[mudwhistle]

So cartoons are convincing scientific evidence of a coverup? Please...

I think what is convincing is looking at the evidence out there rather then just covering your eyes and ears and claiming it doesn't exist.

 

[Zander]

So cartoons are convincing scientific evidence of a coverup? Please...

No, the cover up itself is more than enough. The cartoons are just funny.

 

[Big Fitz]

So cartoons are convincing scientific evidence of a coverup? Please...

Yes... because ummm... we're just obtuse like that.

BTW, anyone else notice the author's name on "Hope n' Change"?

I larfed.

mmmmm... cheesy.

 

[code1211]

so code, I will modify my statement.

Facts we all agree on:
In enclosed environment experiments those with higher CO2/greenhouse gas content experience higher temperatures than those with a normal atmospheric percentages.

Humans increase atmospheric CO2 up to 5% yearly, and thanks to this its according high historically right now according to ice core samples. (a steady 2% doubles it in 50 years or so, 5%,20)

That seems to be what we agree on.

Besides that, everyone has an opinion concerning even the formerly "obvious" decade long trend of the loss of polar ice. Ask shipping companies that go through the northeast passage now if its more open than before. (sorry for calling it northwest in homage to the old search)

Regardless, that opening could be part of a natural cycle (like you mentioned), or could not.

What percentage of could or could not is up for debate. Also is the percentage of risk different ppl are willing to take in regards to "it could be our fault"

Can I say:
"Extrapolating the small scale tests on greenhouse gas effects on enclosed environment onto a world wide level is thought of as foolhardy by some." (I feel this is akin to being careful increasing the presence of any substance around humans that causes cancer to rats.)

My point would be, "If there is a 5% chance giving your kid milk out of a lead cup will make him 5% dumber do you take the chance to avoid buying a proper bottle?" 50% 25% 75% who knows how important that buck we can save in exhaust technology is.
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Don't take me wrong. I post a lot on this issue but I'm not going to do anything crazy like outlaw buying oil from terrorists or post de facto outlaw older cars. I'd even maintain CAFE standards which make sure cars don't fall below 1990 horsepower levels (I won't make CAFE standards so high everyone has to buy an Aveo)

I am not completely sold on the validity of any experiment showing the Greenhouse Effect in a closed system. We all know the stories of the dog owner who stupidly leaves his pet in the car and "cooks" it while he's in shopping. The Air in the car is heated by the Sun and is presubably more filled with CO2 as Fido breathed, but the cause was the Sun, not the CO2.

In the real world, the amount of CO2 difference we are discussing is so small that it cannot be measured unless we go to scales of 1000's of a percent. Do the lab experiments use differences that small? As the temp starts to rise in the lab, are there clouds, rainfall, winds or other extraneous forces that are triggered by any slight change in the temp?

To your analogy: In ancient Rome, the monied classes drank from lead cups and used lead vessels to pour wine. It seems likely that over generations, this made the elite of Rome into lead poisened idiots.

I don't know what is doing it to the elite of Washington today.

The plumbing in Rome often employed lead pipes. This could also have contributed as used to be the common theory, but it turns out that the lead pipes were quickly coated with lime and thereby protected the flowing water from the ill effects of lead.

My point here is that there are variables to consider in all things. In the lead analogy, one just came up and I'm just some guy who watches the Discovery Channels. I'm sure that there are others.

In our climate system, the variables are legion. Not only are there cause effect relationships, there are compensations that occur based on the natural course of things in nature. Add to that the fact that the Little Ice Age Cooling ended and the following warming started before the beginning of the Industrial Revolution.

The cause-effect of lead poisening is pretty well demonstrated and the science is pretty clear. The cause-effect relation of Global Warming as a result primarily of CO2 is extremely weak. Indeed, if there was a strong cause-effect relationship, it would have been produced with real world examples and not have required laboratory examples.

The real world examples don't exist. The probablilities you quote do not apply. However, I will strive mightily to avoid using lead to feed my off spring.

 

[code1211]

Global Warming is real.

The questions are, however, what are the effects and what we should do about them? It may be that the effects are small and we should not do much. I doubt that it will End Mankind As We Know It that some of the more fervent believers purport.

The question, if we are asking what we should do about the effects, is really, "What are the causes and what should we do about them?"

The AGW Theory states that the cause is the activity of man. The prescription, then, is that the Activities of Man must be changed.

Obama is suggesting that we reduce our carbon emission by 80%. This would cause a complete cultural collapse including famine, anarchy and disasters of Biblical proportion.

If Man is the cause, then changing the activity of Man would produce a remedy or at least reduce the ill effects.

If Man is NOT the cause, then these changes would be for nothing. However, we would still have the famine, cultural collapse and anarchy.

Since the wager is for ALL of the marbles, I'd like a few more facts.

 

[sherp]

Of course, its a hoax and has been since this whole thing started. Whats wrong with warming? Warm is good and cold is bad. We prospher during the warm periods and don't when there is 2 miles of ice over the land like 12,400 years ago. I am glad to see these folks be on the run. Clearlym Mann, Jones et all have been slipping one over for years and now they have been caught. Not a minute too soon. We have snow from Georgia to Maine and folks are not dancing in the streets over that. Yeah, warm.

 

[Sinatra]

And yet the Copenhagen Party is going on as if nothing has happened and the world is on the brink of climate collapse, or a world-wide CO2 treaty just in the nick of time...

 

[Jay Canuck]

The emails were stolen.

The investigation has just begun.

In the end I think you will see some people go to jail for stealing private information and the data will hold firm.

Yes, stealing emails is a major crime....but not when it's Sarah Palin's emails.

We've got to forget about that little issue about a hoax that's being used to steal trillions from consumers around the world.

That's a none issue.

sure Mudflaps the fact that Sarah Palin has had e-mail problems is key to this conspiracy theory - smoke much crack?

 

[Jay Canuck]

this thread has still not been moved to the conspiracy forum - surprise!.....not.

 

[Jay Canuck]

Scientists: Climate talks aim too low for target

 

[sealybobo]

I am looking for information regarding the scientists that collect data on Global climate temperatures. Is it true? Did they "FIX" the data? Why would they do something as stupid as that? Or is this an attack by the Right wing due to the undesirable effects of rampant regulations would cause to economic growth?

Is it real--Or is it fake?

[ame]

Republicans and corporations are starting to give up their long standing position that global warming is a hoax. It's real.

Corporations Are Going Green by Linking Executive Pay to Energy and Emissions Targets

But remember on the campaign trail Trump said it was a hoax. Don't republicans feel stupid that they've been lying and/or lied to all these years?

Now you guys aren't denying it anymore but instead you have shifted your position to

Rex Tillerson Says Climate Change Is Real, but …

 

[skookerasbil]

Well the whole CO2 part is most definitely a scam......well documented in this forum by members not in the climate crusaders club.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Record sea ice in Antarctica, global warming to blame.

Don't laugh, they actually belueve it

 

[Old Rocks]

Record sea ice in Antarctica, global warming to blame.

Don't laugh, they actually belueve it

Image 6 of 6 (play slideshow) Download

Arctic Sea Ice News and Analysis | Sea ice data updated daily with one-day lag

Well yes, there is record low sea ice in Antarctica. And low sea ice is usually caused be warming. However, this change from the previous record high sea ice is not well understood at this time. If it continues, we will have apparently crossed a tipping point we were unaware of.

 

[Old Rocks]

Well the whole CO2 part is most definitely a scam......well documented in this forum by members not in the climate crusaders club.

Really? Documented like this;

The Carbon Dioxide Greenhouse Effect

Only the largest Scientific Society in the world, the American Institute of Physics. And your documentation? Fat ass junkies on the AM radio and fake British Lords.

 

[IanC]

Record sea ice in Antarctica, global warming to blame.

Don't laugh, they actually belueve it

Image 6 of 6 (play slideshow) Download

Arctic Sea Ice News and Analysis | Sea ice data updated daily with one-day lag

Well yes, there is record low sea ice in Antarctica. And low sea ice is usually caused be warming. However, this change from the previous record high sea ice is not well understood at this time. If it continues, we will have apparently crossed a tipping point we were unaware of.

Weather vs climate. Even with a low this year the overall Antarctic SIE has been increasing over the whole measured period. Even if it wasn't that wouldn't mean AGW was the only factor, or even an important factor.

One year is certainly not a 'tipping point'. Hahahaha.

 

[polarbear]

Climatologists maintain a highly rigorous distinction between weather and climate, shown in the map below.

 

[polarbear]

this thread has still not been moved to the conspiracy forum - surprise!.....not.