Is DeMints 'Cut, Cap, Balance' Pledge a stunt?

Discussion in 'Politics' started by johnwk, Jun 25, 2011.

  1. johnwk
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    johnwk VIP Member

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    SEE: Can Conservatives' 'Cut, Cap and Balance Pledge' Cure Spending Problem?


    I think it could very well be a fund raising stunt because it gives the impression those who sign the pledge and are promoting it are really concerned about ending the Washington Establishment’s suicidal spending and borrowing. But when one takes the time to actually read their idea of a balanced budget amendment, they soon learn it is cleverly worded to allow Congress’ current reckless spending and borrowing to continue un-abated.

    For the text of the amendment and its supporters see H.J.RES.1

    Here are some facts concerning the proposal:


    FACT:


    `Section 1. Of the BBA which Bachmann supports allows Congress to override the amendment when 261 House members and 60 Senators agree to ignore the provisions of the amendment.


    FACT:


    `Section 2. Provides total outlays for any fiscal year shall not exceed one-fifth of economic output of the United States, unless two-thirds of each House of Congress shall provide for a specific increase of outlays above this amount. The phrase “one-fifth of economic output of the United States“ is not defined in the Section and makes the Section a rubber ruler to be manipulated by those in Washington who now cause our economic misery.


    FACT:


    `Section 3. Provides that the limit on the debt of the United States held by the public shall not be increased unless three-fifths of the whole number of each House shall provide by law for such an increase by a rollcall vote. But, Section 6 allows this provisions to be ignored by a mere majority vote!


    FACT:


    `Section 5. Provides that a bill to increase revenue shall not become law unless three-fifths of the whole number of each House shall provide by law for such an increase by a rollcall vote. But, Section 6 allows Section 5 to also be ignored by a mere majority vote!


    FACT:


    `Section 7. Provides that Congress shall enforce and implement this article by appropriate legislation, which may rely on estimates of outlays and receipts. “Estimates of outlays and receipts” turns the entire amendment into a rubber ruler to be defined and manipulated by Congress!


    Bottom line is, we need to discuss the facts surrounding the amendment and have Michele Bachmann and her so called “fellow conservatives” explain the above provisions and exactly why they are supporting such BS?


    If we are going to amend our Constitution to require an annually balanced budget, then the wording must be designed to accomplish that end and not be riddled with legislative trickery designed to con the American People who are finally rising to the occasion and demanding Congress’ hands be tied to end the reckless spending and borrowing. Thomas Jefferson succinctly warned us: "In matters of Power, let no more be heard of confidence in men, but bind him down from mischief by the chains of the Constitution" I am one who listens to and respects the wisdom of our founding fathers, especially their intended method to deal with deficits using an apportioned tax among the States!


    JWK
    We are here today and gone tomorrow, but what is most important is what we do in between, and is what our children will inherit and remember us by.
     
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    Last edited: Jun 25, 2011
  2. uscitizen
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    uscitizen Senior Member

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    Of course it is bogus, just like the contract on America was.
    Paygo, etc.
     
  3. Wacky Quacky
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    Wacky Quacky Silver Member

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    Even without reading it I could have told you it was a stunt. It's the political way, you draft a good sounding bill and then fill with so much legal jargon and loopholes that it becomes useless. Just look at Obamacare, same thing.

    I will never, for even a second, believe that these clowns are doing anything for our best interests. Until I actually see the end result happen, it's just a stunt.

    Comprehensive Immigration Reform - Stunt
    Obamacare - Stunt
    Paul Ryan's Budget - Stunt
    ect.
    ect.
     
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  4. Trajan
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    Trajan conscientia mille testes

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    oh , so the Clinton years sucked eh? who knew:rolleyes:

    and paygo? better hit google and make a go of it...BEA 1990...have at it.
     
  5. uscitizen
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    uscitizen Senior Member

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    the Reagan and Clowntoon years were a precursor for where we are now.

    Boom on the credit card is bogus. Always has been always will be.
    Lets talk about real growth in america.
    Growth of infrastructure, Good paying jobs, improved education, etc.
    Bogus money made on bogus hedge fundage and such is just bogus.
    Sales based on people using equity in inflated housing prices is bogus.
    Housing industry gains based on the housing bubble is also bogus.

    All just borrowing against the future, well the future is here.
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2011
  6. johnwk
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    johnwk VIP Member

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    Just for the record, I think DeMint and Bachmann may very well be honorable people. But that will not stop me from asking questions and questioning with boldness.

    But in response to a super majority being needed under the proposal, the fact is `Section 6. states: The Congress may waive the provisions of this article for any fiscal year in which a declaration of war is in effect. This sounds good, but the Section then continues: The provisions of this article may be waived for any fiscal year in which the United States is engaged in military conflict which causes an imminent and serious military threat to national security and is so declared by a joint resolution, adopted by a majority of the whole number of each House, which becomes law. And so, a mere majority vote gets to set the entire Amendment aside!

    After the words “declaration of war is in effect” the weasel wording which follows would be laughable if America’s national debt were not so grave, not to mention a mere majority vote is needed to give the finger to the entire balanced budget amendment! The flimflamery under this section is disgusting. Each House may ignore the requirement to balance the budget by simply declaring an existing military conflict has caused an “imminent and serious military threat to national security“. Have we not just seen how this “crisis” scare tactic mentality has been used to plunder our federal treasury under TARP? How it has been used to bail out auto companies which have blood sucking unions? Has been used to send BILLIONS upon BILLIONS of American taxpayer dollars to foreign banks, and used to increase the national debt beyond human comprehension?

    NOTE:
    Brussells and Paris based Dexia SA received 33 billion dollars
    Dublin based Depfa Bank Plc received 24.5 billion dollars.
    The Bank of China borrowed 198 million dolllars.
    Arab Banking Corp, 29% owned by the Libyan central bank at the time, received 73 different loans.

    And we, the American People are left on the hook for this money laundering scheme the federal reserve has cooked up.


    But getting back to DeMint, maybe this fault in Section 6 simply slipped by DeMint and questioning the provision will bring it to his attention and he will demand to have it re-worded. But I still support the Fair Share Balanced Budget Amendment requiring each State’s Congressional Delegation returning home with a bill in hand to pay for the pork they purchase when they cannot pay for their pork with imposts, duties, (taxes at our water’s edge) and miscellaneous excise taxes on judiciously selected articles of consumption. I’m a firm supporter of our founding fathers concept of Representation with proportional obligation!

    We need to always “question with boldness” !

    Regards,
    JWK


    “Honest money and honest taxation, the Key to America’s future Prosperity“ ___ from “Prosperity Restored by the State Rate Tax Plan”, no longer in print.
     
  7. johnwk
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    johnwk VIP Member

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    I just heard Sen. DeMint on FoxNew (Sunday, July 10th, 2:30 in the afternoon) panhandling his phony balanced budget amendment.


    Senator DeMint, with all due respect, will you please tell the American People what provision in your balanced budget amendment actually compels Congress to extinguish an annual deficit created by Congress’ borrowing during the course of a fiscal year? And if no provision is contained in your amendment which actually compels Congress to extinguish a deficit created by Congress borrowing during the course of a fiscal year, how can you truthfully call your freaken amendment a “balanced budget amendment“?

    The fact is, there is no big secret in how Congress is to deal with an annual deficit! Our founding fathers provided in our Constitution a power to Congress to lay and collect a direct tax for the very purpose of extinguishing a deficit!


    When Congress borrows to meet its expenses during the course of a fiscal year, at the close of the fiscal year each State’s Congressional Delegation must return home with a bill in hand for their State to pay an apportioned share in extinguishing the deficit created by Congress’ borrowing. This is what our founding fathers intended, and for confirmation see an Act laying a direct tax for $3 million in which each State’s share is calculated and each State’s Congressional Delegation returned home with a bill in hand for their State’s apportioned share to extinguish a deficit created by Congess.


    Also see Section 7 of direct tax of 1813 allowing states to pay their respective quotas and be entitled to certain deductions in meeting their payment on time.


    Those who say we need to all pay our “fair share” in dealing with the deficit are correct, especially Obama. So, let us all pay our “fair share” as agreed to under our Constitution’s fair share formula!

    Our Constitution's no-nonsense fair share formula


    States’ population

    ---------------------------- X ANNUAL DEFICIT = STATE’S SHARE

    Total U.S. Population


    JWK


    “The apportionment of representation and taxation by the same scale is just; it removes the objection, that, while Virginia paid one sixth part of the expenses of the Union, she had no more weight in public counsels than Delaware, which paid but a very small portion”3 Elliot’s 41
     
  8. Modbert
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    Modbert Daydream Believer Supporting Member

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    All pledges that politicians sign are stunts to gain attention.
     
  9. johnwk
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    johnwk VIP Member

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    Is Eric Cantor investing in America’s financial destruction?

    See: Eric Cantor’s Investment

    If this is true, it could explain why Cantor is in favor of a fake balanced budget amendment which would allow Congress to continue its reckless spending and borrowing practices which in turn is leading to a financial suicidal for America.

    If anyone here can find more information on this please post it. I don’t want to jump to conclusions but I do want to get to the bottom of this.

    JWK


    Our federal government personifies a living creature, a predator: it grows, it multiplies, it protects itself, it feeds on those it can defeat, and does everything to expand its powers and flourish, even at the expense of enslaving a nation’s entire population.
     
  10. MarcATL
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    MarcATL Gold Member

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    Oh look, another crazy-A$$ RWer signing "pledges" to beg the red meat-loving far-right base of the RepubliCON party for votes.

    Whoopty dooo!

    :rolleyes:
     

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