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We didn't kill the soviet union, they died from within because of enormous debts. Those same enormous debts we now have.
Predictions of our demise are nothing new
In the 1980s all we heard was how Japan would overtake us
I think an apology for Bush's arrogance toward our allies is well overdue.You know, this is a favorite talking point of the Anti-Obama folks.
And yet, no one's ever been able to show a link to Obama actually "apologizing" to anyone, for anything.
So, got something to back this up? Or just repeating a talking point for the fun of it?
Here ya go!
Barack Obama: 'arrogant US has been dismissive' to allies - Telegraph
Now tell me how it was misquoted. Or how the Telegraph isn't reliable. Or how it was out of context. Or how Obama was really right after all and should have apologized.
Ok.
Just a bit exaggerated!!!antagone,
The US is some 4 - 5 trillion in debt. China is financing virtually every aspect of American life. They own you. Soon Mao's Little Red Book will be mandatory reading in every American classroom.
Here's a head's up, folks.
ALL NATION STATES are getting weaker.
This is NOT by accident.
Dat true. Globalization and corporatization intended to undermine the nation state, and they are.
Weak states, strong corps, powerless labor, the power of capital in the hands of private banksters, and absolutely NO free markets
I realize that this forum has become a place for people simply to emote their beliefs and expect not to be asked for any kind of proof. But still, I must ask: Can you point to "corps" that are stronger and overwhelming weakened nation-states?
I say no. Rather, I see the fall of the USSR as the infancy of US world domination, leaving a good 100 - 150 years of definitive top-dog status. Nevertheless, folks seem to be eager to prophecy our immanent decline. What is this based on, again?
The ability of the US to run a double deficit without end is what all of our debt and economic power relies upon.
And that double deficit is the direct result of our world reserve currency status. A voluntary condition backed by NATO and of course the US military strength.
But that doesn't mean it can't all fail in a week.
left field. plus china's lot is tied to ours, as is much of the rest of the world. where monetary policy is concerned, all things are relative. without playing down the seriousness of our public finance situation, there is no way in hell to paint china's as being close to better off. their currency has no value independent from the buck
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china cant afford to arm themselves like the US is armed. the US wont let them at any price. i contend that our military can function sans china if needed, and without an akward transition, whatsoever. china will inevitably overtake the US in the manufacture game, but assuming a decline in US manufacture growth is a baseless presumption. china's manufacture growth is slowing. how will deflation further impact that on the back of the waning demand which they're already coping with?China's strength is in taking over the command position in world manufacturing and owning the technologies of the future while we slowly forget how to make bolts.
Our military can't function without Chinese parts, and China can afford to arm themselves at about 8% the costs of us modernizing our military.
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They are probably the most unified, homogeneous nation state/culture ethnicity on earth. China is probably far more stable than the baby US.
But resources....how do you feed and supply 1.3 billion people? Esp in war? It does seem like an impasse is inevitable.
history can't support your image of china or chinese.
the US has had china surrounded for 40 years; geographically, politically and economically there is no remote chance for china to prevail in a confrontation with the US, although a US/china showdown is one of the lessor likely scenarios to play out. it's even hard to imagine in the short term, barring a left-field scenario.
what's not out of left field is that china is overdue a recession which has the potential to be exacerbated by stagflationary forces to include coping with that massive population you point out.
I think you would get quite a bit of argument from the million+ that have lost jobs to outsourcing. The manufacturing jobs that were never created because of cheaper foreign labor and loss in wages have been devastating to manufacturing workers. The only workers I can see that get any benefit from globalization is the upper echelons of the labor market. I am afraid the only solution is an equalization of labor cost between the US and it's competitor.Globalization is here and here to stay. It has been devastating to American workers particular in manufacturing. The globalization of corporate American has been very profitable. It has opened markets throughout the world, Starbucks in China and Walmart in India, etc.. Business can now have easier access to cheap foreign labor. A boon for business. A disaster for American workers.Globalism is the scourge of mankind. It has turned so many into slaves. I can't recall a single Global trade deal signed in recent years that has benefited American Workers. All of our politicians in both parties have sold us out. I proudly proclaim that it's time for more Isolationism & Protectionism. The Globalists have made those terms dirty words. Why have they made those terms dirty words? Just look at the people who are always pushing Globalism/Interventionism. Those people don't care about Americans anymore. The time has come for a bit of that Isolationism & Protectionism. When Americans stop fighting for Americans you know something is wrong. Our politicians have stopped fighting for Americans a long time ago. I don't understand how so few understand this. I equate power with Globalism/Interventionism so i think less power might just be a good thing for this nation. That's how i feel anyway.
Unfortunately, I think there is little that can be done. It's just the way the world is moving.
Actually it's been a boon to American workers in many ways. Yes, some have been displaced. But there have been many more jobs created than lost. This is why the unemployment rate ran at about 5% or less for most of Bush's tenure.
The alternatives are far worse.
I say no. Rather, I see the fall of the USSR as the infancy of US world domination, leaving a good 100 - 150 years of definitive top-dog status. Nevertheless, folks seem to be eager to prophecy our immanent decline. What is this based on, again?
Thanks. You're obviously incapable of coherent thought or argument. Your posts are not worth reading. Buh bye.Dat true. Globalization and corporatization intended to undermine the nation state, and they are.
Weak states, strong corps, powerless labor, the power of capital in the hands of private banksters, and absolutely NO free markets
I realize that this forum has become a place for people simply to emote their beliefs and expect not to be asked for any kind of proof. But still, I must ask: Can you point to "corps" that are stronger and overwhelming weakened nation-states?
sure, consult the fortune 500. You can thank me with a long and relaxing tummy rub.
china cant afford to arm themselves like the US is armed. the US wont let them at any price. i contend that our military can function sans china if needed, and without an akward transition, whatsoever. china will inevitably overtake the US in the manufacture game, but assuming a decline in US manufacture growth is a baseless presumption. china's manufacture growth is slowing. how will deflation further impact that on the back of the waning demand which they're already coping with?China's strength is in taking over the command position in world manufacturing and owning the technologies of the future while we slowly forget how to make bolts.
Our military can't function without Chinese parts, and China can afford to arm themselves at about 8% the costs of us modernizing our military.
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i can't even take that seriously.
As the US slowly forgets how to make autos and bolts China is inventing much of the world's cutting edge manufacturing technology. Within ten years we will be half a century behind them in manufacturing efficiency and proficiency if current trends persist.
And they aren't really tied to our economy, that's pure illusion. Just this year China surpassed the US in both manufacture and consumption of autos. They have far people online than we do, have a far better internet connectivity matrix, and they have 3 internet search engines as large as Google.
The Chinese economy is fully capable of becoming the world's market of choice and dominance save for one thing, they still need dollars to buy commodities.
But that world commodity exchange hegemony that the dollar enjoys is voluntary and can end quickly.
We can' keep out military running without their spare parts, we can't keep anything running without their parts. I doubt you an find a single manufactured machine in the US that isn't reliant on at least one Japanese or Chinese part.
and addressing an earlier point you made:
The US is the second largest economy in the world, not #1 and as large as the next 4 combined:
List of countries by GDP (nominal) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
just saying.
And China will become the 3rd largest in the world this year.
Rising from 46th 12 years ago.
Here's a head's up, folks.
ALL NATION STATES are getting weaker.
This is NOT by accident.
Dat true. Globalization and corporatization intended to undermine the nation state, and they are.
Weak states, strong corps, powerless labor, the power of capital in the hands of private banksters, and absolutely NO free markets
I realize that this forum has become a place for people simply to emote their beliefs and expect not to be asked for any kind of proof. But still, I must ask: Can you point to "corps" that are stronger and overwhelming weakened nation-states?
if this is at the core of your presumed chinese stability, i would suggest revision.Then show me some history.history can't support your image of china or chinese.They are probably the most unified, homogeneous nation state/culture ethnicity on earth. China is probably far more stable than the baby US.
China is by far and away the most unified and self identified ethnicity/nationality on earth. Like 30 times moreso than the US.
what's not out of left field is that china is overdue a recession which has the potential to be exacerbated by stagflationary forces to include coping with that massive population you point out.
Odds seem far better that the US will hit that wall.
China's growth is based on actual fundamentals whereas 70% of our economy is in the service sector, which means it can evaporate on a whim or a wind. Our biggest industry growth sector is healthcare! Think about it! And virtually every other sector of our economy is stalled or in the midst of radical decline.
We don't even have a plan or a hope for recovery.
Even Gates says his greatest fear is that we will have to gut the military to address our budget. Duh! We will have to gut everything to address the budget.
We are way beyond broke.
OK. It's exploded under Obama.Dat true. Globalization and corporatization intended to undermine the nation state, and they are.
Weak states, strong corps, powerless labor, the power of capital in the hands of private banksters, and absolutely NO free markets
I realize that this forum has become a place for people simply to emote their beliefs and expect not to be asked for any kind of proof. But still, I must ask: Can you point to "corps" that are stronger and overwhelming weakened nation-states?
Easily....take a look at our national debt.
the EU is not a country, cannon. as such i dont consider them a single economy. should NAFTA be perceived as 1? what about china's dollar reserve practices? the chinese economy is more of a dollar economy than great britain is a euro economy. should we compile their economic returns with our own?
compare the relative size of the US economy and any other on the planet... any two or three combined.
on the slowly forgetting our manufacture skills, i remind that the US already manufactures computer parts, bolts and components. if something went on between us and china, arguably our greatest ally, i think that we would be able to support our military for the purposes of replacement parts. we are the world's largest manufacturer at present, and we are at present considerably more efficient than china in this respect. [\quote]
The US remained the worlds biggest manufacturing nation by output last year, but is poised to relinquish this slot in 2011 to China thus ending a 110-year run as the number one country in factory production.
FT.com / China - US manufacturing crown slips
while this point is technically true it is so only because the output of China and the US are measured in dollars. If you merely broke the peg China would surpass the US in manufacturing within a week, if you appraised China's output based on actual value of goods produced they probably produce about 5 times more manufactured value than the US, but they sell it cheap.
We in turn mark up the prices 400%-900% and market their products to our citizens.
And the EU shares a central bank and a common currency. While not a nation state they are clearly an economy.
manufacture in the US has an onus to promote efficiency. efficiency in china is paying less for labor. their economy has an onus on consuming labor. as they transition to a serious consumption economy - on a per-capita basis that is - the cost of labor will have to evolve similarly to our own.
i think that the idea that china's progress is mutually exclusive, rather than supportive of our own is the driving force behind people's assumption that they will surpass our influence on the planet. instead, asia's market development has centered north america geographically as the center of the world marketplace with our exclusive access to the pacific and atlantic. who dominates north america beyond doubt? who dominates - i mean DOMINATES - the world's oceans? as china's consumption of raw and manufactured goods grows, who will benefit then? well, china, but who else?
geographically and with respect to china's world influence, the biggest 'threat' in terms of their domination is their aggressive codevelopment on africa. should they build naval bases or alliances with emerging economies there, there is a 30-50 year prospect that china could establish themselves as a world force, should they hold together inasmuch time. they are doing better for themselves in terms of relations with african countries than any western nation, undoubtedly because westerners are practiced at laughing off africa's value, geopolitically. 25 years of chinese and russian infrastructure development can afford china access to eurasia, albeit not entirely independent.
i think the US welcomes china's economic growth. for now we have tabs on their imports, exports and currency. we are allies - the high-powered adolescent type, anyway... we won't welcome the growth of their military prowess and take solace in the demands of their infrastructure and industrial complex's efficiency in distracting them from pursuing those objectives. No matter the developments of their military and their navy, china, geographically, is landlocked or surrounded by US influence. for now they aren't positioned or interested in kicking up dust about that. not for 10 years either.
The only ways in which China's growth and manufacturing dominance benefits us is that A) they buy our debt an B) they sell us shit at a small fraction of it's actual value.
Both are temporary effects in their long term economic plan.
It is perfectly obvious based on their refusal to revalue the renimbi that they really are not designing their economy for our benefit. The day will come hen they surpass us technologically, economically and possibly even militarily if they don't hit a wall over resource scarcity first.
But I think that resource scarcity wall is quickly approaching. If China consumed resources at the pace that the US does they alone would suck up the entire bounty of the Earth. Leaving nothing for anybody else.
So obviously that will never happen.
What is happening is that the US economy and Chinese economy are moving toward parity. With wages and living standards included in that rebalancing.
Will they manage to surpass us with military and economic might?? I have no idea, nobody does.
But to think it impossible is silly. Empires always fail.
while you've argued that china stands a chance of operating independent of developed economies, i contend that that is impossible. chinese economic activity is decidedly external at this juncture, and they have a long, long way to go before they can be seen as a consumption-based economy capable of supporting their own output..
