Is America the greatest country in the world?

[Synthaholic]

False.

NONE of the policies favored by Conservatives constitute a war on poor people. In fact, objectively, which Synth is not, it could be better argued that the effect of modern American liberalism is an attack on individual liberties the worst effect of which is dumped on "poorer" people.

Laughable.

How about Mandatory Minimums for drug offenders?

How about the disparity between sentences for crack vs cocaine?


These two hurt poor people at a much higher rate than rich people.

And don't try to tell me that millionaire Wall Streeters don't do drugs. It is well documented.

You have failed completely to prove your point.

I doubt you even understand what point I was making.

 

[Synthaholic]

How nice of you to stereotype the poor as being drug users. I don't think the examples you give hurt poor people as much as they hurt STUPID people.

How nice of you to display your stupidity.

Most drug abusers who are imprisoned are poor.

Most drug users who are imprisoned are drug dealers, multiple-multiple offenders, and/or were charged with drug-related crimes while in the process of committing other crimes.

False.

 

[Synthaholic]

I voted, "No, but it could be.".
The US has massive resources that could be used to help the whole world in a wide variety of ways.
Mass education, aid to set up farming to keep hunger from the world and assistance to those in trouble from disaster.
And at a price that's likely to be a lot cheaper than war.

The US has the power to make the world it's friend - has it got the balls to do it?

You'll like our balls.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4O-SX_W0lrQ]You're Gonna Love My Nuts - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Foxfyre]

If we had known in advance what al Qaida was planning on 9/11, would that have been sufficient reason to strike first? .

Of course.

But would you agree with me that it is a legitimate debate? In the case of Iraq, virtually every member of the Bush and Clinton administrations, every member of Congress, every member of the U.N., and almost all heads of state throughout the free world, and all his Arab neighbors believed Saddam had weapons of mass destruction and would use them against America and all her allies. More than a few still believe he had them and moved them out to places like Iran and Syria during all those long months he stalled the U.N. inspectors. There is concern as we type this that intelligence has determined that Syria has chemicals of mass destruction (cyanide, serin, et al) and is prepared to use them on its own citizens. Where did those come from? Did Syria develop them? We don't know.

And then there is the issue of the sanctions that many believe had Saddam contained, but that were nevertheless causing death and suffering of tens of thousands of Iraqi citizens. What is more humane? Sanctions that kill tens of thousands? Or war that ends the problem once and for all?

Now in hindsight, most would say that the invasion of Iraq, however legal, was ill advised and was not worth the immense cost of American blood and treasure. The Ron Paul et al camps think we never should have meddled in any of it in the first place. Others think we have to care when human lives are being destroyed by tyrants. And that is absolutely a legitimate debate to have.

 

[Synthaholic]

"Some of our wars were ill-advised..."

What a laughable euphemism!

The most vociferous criticism from such an intellect can only be considered as flattery.

Only because you are such a drooling moron you cannot grasp the fact that some of our wars were well advised.

You really are quite pathetic.

Your stupid tone and boring tenor are familiar.

Did you used to post here under some other boring username?

Why do you always resort to this kind of posting whenever you no longer have an intelligent response?

Wouldn't it be better to stay silent and be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt?

 

[Foxfyre]

"Some of our wars were ill-advised..."

What a laughable euphemism!

The most vociferous criticism from such an intellect can only be considered as flattery.

Only because you are such a drooling moron you cannot grasp the fact that some of our wars were well advised.

You really are quite pathetic.

Your stupid tone and boring tenor are familiar.

Did you used to post here under some other boring username?

Why do you always resort to this kind of posting whenever you no longer have an intelligent response?

Wouldn't it be better to stay silent and be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt?

Appeal to civility please. You guys that enjoy the schoolyard taunts and insults and have issues with each other, please take it to the flame zone or rubber room.

Let's focus on the pertinent issues raised in the O.P. here. Thanks.

 

[Unkotare]

Laughable.

How about Mandatory Minimums for drug offenders?

How about the disparity between sentences for crack vs cocaine?


These two hurt poor people at a much higher rate than rich people.

And don't try to tell me that millionaire Wall Streeters don't do drugs. It is well documented.

You have failed completely to prove your point.

I doubt you even understand what point I was making.

You want to doubt that, but doing so does not - despite your hope - make you any more intelligent or, in this case, correct. Your failure stands.

 

[Unkotare]

How nice of you to display your stupidity.

Most drug abusers who are imprisoned are poor.

Most drug users who are imprisoned are drug dealers, multiple-multiple offenders, and/or were charged with drug-related crimes while in the process of committing other crimes.

False.

True. By far the most common punishment for drug crimes is probation and mandatory treatment programs. If you are doing hard time for drugs it's because you were dealing, you were caught with them while committing another crime, or you are so hopeless you are a multiple, multiple, multiple loser.

 

[Foxfyre]

Would the greatest country in the world have a huge alcoholism and other drug addiction problem?

 

[Unkotare]

Would the greatest country in the world have a huge alcoholism and other drug addiction problem?

Why wouldn't it?

 

[Big Fitz]

She is great, but not as compared to the way she once was. I don't know of a country greater than her, but I do know she's come a long way from her prime.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

America may aid other countries, but not massively (unless arms are counted).
A very small percentage of G.D.P. even if one includes weapons.

But keep chanting...

The US has sent Israel $115 billion since WWII
Pity it's almost all weapons.

How does that compare to the healthcare bill that is considered to be such a waste of money?

Americans are more afraid of terrorists than heart disease, despite the relatively tiny number who have died from the former.

But ‘Greatest Country in the world’ is silly, jingoistic, and infantile.

What makes America great is her system of justice, which is far superior to that of any other nation.

To be sure there are nations with fair and just legal systems, ensuring civil rights and due process, but they don’t work as well as the American judicial system, which has the advantage of a written Constitution, its case law, and a long legal tradition.

Many countries struggle with the issue of immigration, for example, where those born of ‘foreigners’ are in a citizenship limbo.

In the United State, on the other hand, all persons are entitled to due process regardless their immigration status and those born here are citizens. Period.

What’s most remarkable about the American legal system is the doctrine of judicial review and the rule of law – where all persons are protected from the tyranny of the majority, in all jurisdictions.

The only ‘problem’ with the American judicial system is Americans who are ignorant of the law or have contempt for Constitutional case law and precedent.

 

[Unkotare]

She is great, but not as compared to the way she once was. I don't know of a country greater than her, but I do know she's come a long way from her prime.

People have been saying that since 1777.

 

[Foxfyre]

She is great, but not as compared to the way she once was. I don't know of a country greater than her, but I do know she's come a long way from her prime.

That's where I am, which is why I voted Yes and also No, but it could be again on the poll. In many ways--C Clayton touched on our judiciary for instance--we are superior to all others. Our judiciary, at least that part we can commend, is based on the Founders concept of unalienable rights taking precedent first and foremost over all other concerns. No other nation recognizes unalienable rights and thereby bases its judiciary on whatever permissions are granted by their respective governments, or, in the case of the more totalitarian governments, the whims of the dictator du jour.

But for me I see the decline in various breakdowns of the American cohesiveness in its values and ideals. Exalting multiculturalism, for instance, rather than assimilation into a unique American culture has been a huge part of that breakdown. Rather than appreciating the various cultures people contribute to the mix as interesting and informative, we have begun changing our culture to accommodate others. And that has not been a positive thing and in fact has created divisiveness.

We have already touched on the welfare state as a key factor in the breakdown of the American family and raising up unprofitable characteristics of society as the new normal to be celebrated rather than regretted.

Too many of our friends here want to blame somebody or some group or some policy or some negative aspect of our history. But all nations deal with those kinds of things. The fragmentation of our society that is diminishing our greatness, I think goes far deeper than that.

 

[Unkotare]

Exalting multiculturalism, for instance, rather than assimilation into a unique American culture has been a huge part of that breakdown. Rather than appreciating the various cultures people contribute to the mix as interesting and informative, we have begun changing our culture to accommodate others. And that has not been a positive thing and in fact has created divisiveness.

How so?

 

[Big Fitz]

She is great, but not as compared to the way she once was. I don't know of a country greater than her, but I do know she's come a long way from her prime.

People have been saying that since 1777.

How could they. The United States of America didn't exist till 1791 when the constitution was ratified.

 

[Unkotare]

She is great, but not as compared to the way she once was. I don't know of a country greater than her, but I do know she's come a long way from her prime.

People have been saying that since 1777.

How could they. The United States of America didn't exist till 1791 when the constitution was ratified.

Don't ruin my clever remark! (but really, people have been saying it since before 1776 if you want to get fussy about it, AND we were in fact The United States of America under the Articles of Confederation as well, so...).

 

[Foxfyre]

Exalting multiculturalism, for instance, rather than assimilation into a unique American culture has been a huge part of that breakdown. Rather than appreciating the various cultures people contribute to the mix as interesting and informative, we have begun changing our culture to accommodate others. And that has not been a positive thing and in fact has created divisiveness.

How so?

There was a time when people came to America to be Americans. They WANTED to be Americans and all that entailed. I was blessed to participate in helping with classes to help new immigrants from all populated continents (including ours) to assimilate into American culture, to learn the language, to learn the more critical basic laws, to learn the content and respect for the Constitution, to learn our Pledge of Allegiance and the symbolism in our flag, etc. And there were no more proud people in the world who stood up at their swearing in ceremony, who recited the Pledge of Allegiance, who took the oath:

(Working from memory)

"I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state or sovereignty, of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen; that I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform noncombatant service in the armed forces of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform work of national importance under civilian direction when required by the law; and that I take this obligation freely without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; so help me God."

(and then they sign a written oath containing the same language.)

When you see them reverently facing our flag, reciting the Pledge, many with tears of joy streaming down their cheeks, (and also my cheeks when I was in attendance), there is nothing else to describe it.

From then on they were Americans who happened to be born in another culture. They were not asked to renounce their culture and at times we all joyfully share in the festival traditions of the Chinese, the Irish, the Russians, the Italians, the Mexicans, et al. But they also assimilated into and enriched the unqiue American culture. They did not demand that the American culture change to accommodate them.

When out of political correctness we adopt and force multiculturalism to accommodate different cultures and set them apart, we fragment society. We fragment America.

 

[Unkotare]

Exalting multiculturalism, for instance, rather than assimilation into a unique American culture has been a huge part of that breakdown. Rather than appreciating the various cultures people contribute to the mix as interesting and informative, we have begun changing our culture to accommodate others. And that has not been a positive thing and in fact has created divisiveness.

How so?

There was a time when people came to America to be Americans. They WANTED to be Americans and all that entailed. I was blessed to participate in helping with classes to help new immigrants from all populated continents (including ours) to assimilate into American culture, to learn the language, to learn the more critical basic laws, to learn the content and respect for the Constitution, to learn our Pledge of Allegiance and the symbolism in our flag, etc. And there were no more proud people in the world who stood up at their swearing in ceremony, who recited the Pledge of Allegiance, who took the oath:

(Working from memory)

"I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state or sovereignty, of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen; that I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform noncombatant service in the armed forces of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform work of national importance under civilian direction when required by the law; and that I take this obligation freely without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; so help me God."

(and then they sign a written oath containing the same language.)

When you see them reverently facing our flag, reciting the Pledge, many with tears of joy streaming down their cheeks, (and also my cheeks when I was in attendance), there is nothing else to describe it.

From then on they were Americans who happened to be born in another culture. They were not asked to renounce their culture and at times we all joyfully share in the festival traditions of the Chinese, the Irish, the Russians, the Italians, the Mexicans, et al. But they also assimilated into and enriched the unqiue American culture. .

All that is still true today.

 

[Foxfyre]

How so?

There was a time when people came to America to be Americans. They WANTED to be Americans and all that entailed. I was blessed to participate in helping with classes to help new immigrants from all populated continents (including ours) to assimilate into American culture, to learn the language, to learn the more critical basic laws, to learn the content and respect for the Constitution, to learn our Pledge of Allegiance and the symbolism in our flag, etc. And there were no more proud people in the world who stood up at their swearing in ceremony, who recited the Pledge of Allegiance, who took the oath:

(Working from memory)

"I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state or sovereignty, of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen; that I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform noncombatant service in the armed forces of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform work of national importance under civilian direction when required by the law; and that I take this obligation freely without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; so help me God."

(and then they sign a written oath containing the same language.)

When you see them reverently facing our flag, reciting the Pledge, many with tears of joy streaming down their cheeks, (and also my cheeks when I was in attendance), there is nothing else to describe it.

From then on they were Americans who happened to be born in another culture. They were not asked to renounce their culture and at times we all joyfully share in the festival traditions of the Chinese, the Irish, the Russians, the Italians, the Mexicans, et al. But they also assimilated into and enriched the unqiue American culture. .

All that is still true today.

I'm not sure what you mean. When I see demands from the PC crowd that we 'accommodate' or change our uniquely American traditions and customs lest we 'offend' somebody of 'another culture', I see that as a problem. And that phenomenon is a fairly recent thing, at least no earlier than the last 30 years of American history.