IRS tech experts: Lerner’s hard drive only 'scratched,' not destroyed

[Jarhead]

We will never know what Learner was doing, she is invoking the 5th, why?

she's invoking the fifth because the government, the Republican Congress Critter Investigators, is on a fishing expedition and purely partisan witch hunt and have totally BLOWN this investigation with their Dog and Pony shows and grand standing....and UN-PROFESSIONALIM! they are a joke!


That's what her lawyer said....when he advised her to take the 5th...

This government over reach, is BEYOND REASON, and you allll....

you are just licking it up....? WHY when you supposedly hate the federal government's POWER so much? Is it all A-OK when it is your side of the aisle of government doing it?

my answer is a resounding, NO, it's NOT A-OK.

They are trying to find out why everything that could possibly go wrong did, yet it only happened to people involved in what might be a criminal act. An intelligent person would wonder why all the hard disk failures were limited to people that were involved in the alleged criminal act, a hack would just see this as a partisan fishing expedition.

I used to think you were intelligent.

Lerner can prove innocence or wrongdoing...
But she chose to take the 5th

That's OK. We can look at her emails.
But they have been lost due to a hard drive crash

That's ok. We can look at her closest colleagues emails.
But they too have been lost due to hard drive crashes.

That's OK. We can look at the back ups.
Alas, they have been erased.

That's OK. Thanks to the Federal Records Act, we can look at the saved hard copies as per the law.
But they never saved those hard copies.

That's OK. We can get her crashed hard derive and try to retrieve data.
But that hard drive has been destroyed.

That's OK, We can got to the NARA for they certainly looked at the hard drive seeing as, by law, they are to be informed as soon as a hard drive crashes.
But they were never informed.

All safeguards put into place to ensure congress can do their job of oversight have been completely eliminated as possibilities.

But it is the "congress critters" fault.

Care4all is a partisan fool with no credibility with me anymore.

 

[JoeB131]

See, there's Joe spewing his crap narrative again. No matter how many times it's been shown to be wrong he continues to spew it. Because facts dont matter to Joe. Only the narrative.

and here's the thing. If Lerner ever finds herself in front of a jury, especially a DC Jury, you are going to find a lot of people who see it that way.

So there's really no point to this, other than to grandstand, is there?

Yeah, I'm stupid and believe this and a lot of other people are stupid and they'l probably believe it too.

Sure, go with that one Joe.

It's not a matter of being stupid, it's a matter of partisan ship. You are going to have to convince a DC jury that Karl Rove really deserved his fraudulent exemption as a social welfare agency and mean old Lois was keeping it from him.

Good luck with that. Seriously.

 

[JoeB131]

Aww give poor Joe a Break -yes he's low on information and high on parrotted rhetoric, but he's not really as dumb as he leads people to beleive -every now and again he betrays a slight glimmer of intelligence -

Um, check out the section I cited above. It tells IRS employees to delete emails and delete them frequently.

And there's nothing in that mess about printing out hard copies. In fact, the whole thing reads like 'cover your ass' instructions that probably no one actually follows.

Do you have any ideas how man emails it takes before you hit 500 MB?


Didn't think so.

You sill lose.

Probably a lot more than you'd think.

I just cleaned out my e-mail today (because I was overdue and these threads got me thinking about it.) I cleaned out every e-mail I received or sent between 01Jan13 and 31May13. It was a total of 12,963 e-mails I either received or sent. (And I usually delete the spam).

And I'm just a lowly buyer at a manufacturing company. I could imagine how many someone in Ms. Lerner's position gets, dealing with hundreds of agents and analysts across the country.

 

[The Rabbi]

and here's the thing. If Lerner ever finds herself in front of a jury, especially a DC Jury, you are going to find a lot of people who see it that way.

So there's really no point to this, other than to grandstand, is there?

Yeah, I'm stupid and believe this and a lot of other people are stupid and they'l probably believe it too.

Sure, go with that one Joe.

It's not a matter of being stupid, it's a matter of partisan ship. You are going to have to convince a DC jury that Karl Rove really deserved his fraudulent exemption as a social welfare agency and mean old Lois was keeping it from him.

Good luck with that. Seriously.

No actually that wont ever enter into it. But nice try sticking to your narrative. One day, maybe, you'll try truth instead. But that would cause your head to explode.

 

[saveliberty]

I suppose Lerner is watching a lot of Orange is the New Black. Training videos.

 

[JoeB131]

Yeah, I'm stupid and believe this and a lot of other people are stupid and they'l probably believe it too.

Sure, go with that one Joe.

It's not a matter of being stupid, it's a matter of partisan ship. You are going to have to convince a DC jury that Karl Rove really deserved his fraudulent exemption as a social welfare agency and mean old Lois was keeping it from him.

Good luck with that. Seriously.

No actually that wont ever enter into it. But nice try sticking to your narrative. One day, maybe, you'll try truth instead. But that would cause your head to explode.

Well, this will never get before a jury. No judge would let it get that far.

But Issa will keep throwing meat to dumb-asses like you.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Um, check out the section I cited above. It tells IRS employees to delete emails and delete them frequently.

And there's nothing in that mess about printing out hard copies. In fact, the whole thing reads like 'cover your ass' instructions that probably no one actually follows.

Do you have any ideas how man emails it takes before you hit 500 MB?


Didn't think so.

You sill lose.

Probably a lot more than you'd think.

I just cleaned out my e-mail today (because I was overdue and these threads got me thinking about it.) I cleaned out every e-mail I received or sent between 01Jan13 and 31May13. It was a total of 12,963 e-mails I either received or sent. (And I usually delete the spam).

And I'm just a lowly buyer at a manufacturing company. I could imagine how many someone in Ms. Lerner's position gets, dealing with hundreds of agents and analysts across the country.

How much space did they take up, oh he who manages to ignore all facts that prove him wrong?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

It's not a matter of being stupid, it's a matter of partisan ship. You are going to have to convince a DC jury that Karl Rove really deserved his fraudulent exemption as a social welfare agency and mean old Lois was keeping it from him.

Good luck with that. Seriously.

No actually that wont ever enter into it. But nice try sticking to your narrative. One day, maybe, you'll try truth instead. But that would cause your head to explode.

Well, this will never get before a jury. No judge would let it get that far.

But Issa will keep throwing meat to dumb-asses like you.

It already has, oh he who is always wrong.

Two Federal Judges Demand Answers | Free Speech, American Center for Law and Justice ACLJ

 

[Ernie S.]

Because the burden rests solely with the state to prove guilt, not the citizen to prove innocence. Lerner and all citizens are innocent until proved guilty in a court of law. The 5th Amendment prevents the government from pursuing criminal prosecution based only on the statements of citizens, absent objective, documented evidence.

One does not invoke the 5th Amendment to avoid criminal prosecution or punishment, it does not mean one is 'guilty,' or 'hiding something,' but is meant to compel the state to meet the standard necessary to potentially take from a citizen his liberty.

And the 5th Amendment is indeed significant in this situation, as the intent of the Amendment was to prevent the government from punishing political opponents for purely partisan reasons, which is clearly true in this case – where the republican agenda has nothing to so with the truth or facts.

Clayton -STFU - nobody reads your biased opinionated unqualified "legal briefs" so do yourself a favor and stop taking up space on everybodies computer screens - thanks Pal

he's the only one making sense...

The rest of you are salivating for a lynching, without a trial....and without evidence or proof....ONLY SPECULATION.

Amazing how you guys just LOVE THIS GOVERNMENT overreach and bashing and the gvt using their power to squash a citizen for no criminal reasons, only POLITICAL posturing,

while you all screamed bloody murder on how intrusive and horrible and overreaching our gvt was to Bundy....who actually did break the Law....

I GIVE UP, you all are hopeless, and hypocrites to the enth degree, and ya don't even know it...

My GOD woman!!! This whole thread is about government over-reach by Lerner and the IRS. So now you have the unmitigated temerity to call an attempt by Congress to get to the bottom of a possible criminal act, "government over-reach" How friggin' disingenuous can you possibly be?

 

[Ernie S.]

he's the only one making sense...

The rest of you are salivating for a lynching, without a trial....and without evidence or proof....ONLY SPECULATION.

Amazing how you guys just LOVE THIS GOVERNMENT overreach and bashing and the gvt using their power to squash a citizen for no criminal reasons, only POLITICAL posturing,

while you all screamed bloody murder on how intrusive and horrible and overreaching our gvt was to Bundy....who actually did break the Law....

I GIVE UP, you all are hopeless, and hypocrites to the enth degree, and ya don't even know it...

The Law is required to be applied equally to all- I sincerely doubt he would make any sense to you were it the Bush Administration he were applying his bias legal-eez to.

I watched a lot of hearings when President Bush was in Office, and the ones I saw, were run professionally....not at all like this CIRCUS that the Republican congress critters have CREATED in their hearings and in their beloved Right wing Media.... it's embarrassing to even watch and listen to them and the contortions they struggle to make....GUMBY would be proud.

You don't see any partisan hypocrisy at all in what you wrote above, do you?
Sad, really.

 

[Ernie S.]

Because the burden rests solely with the state to prove guilt, not the citizen to prove innocence. Lerner and all citizens are innocent until proved guilty in a court of law. The 5th Amendment prevents the government from pursuing criminal prosecution based only on the statements of citizens, absent objective, documented evidence.

Exactly right, she knows she is guilty and the 5th say she does not have to provide evidence against herself, it does not allow her not to give evidence against someone else. So I am guess immunity is the only answer.

One does not invoke the 5th Amendment to avoid criminal prosecution or punishment, it does not mean one is 'guilty,' or 'hiding something,' but is meant to compel the state to meet the standard necessary to potentially take from a citizen his liberty.

Here is the fifth amendment: The Fifth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution reads:

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

Now granted it has been extended to mean any hearing or such that might lead to criminal charges to be filed, as has been pointed out in other threads. That is why those in organized crime pleaded the 5th.

Let me point out something very off topic, but the 5th, does not mean those who are Americans are to be afforded due process before their are killed? If not an immediate threat?

And the 5th Amendment is indeed significant in this situation, as the intent of the Amendment was to prevent the government from punishing political opponents for purely partisan reasons, which is clearly true in this case – where the republican agenda has nothing to so with the truth or facts.

The actually intent was to stop the government from using torture and such to obtain confessions. Actually it was meant to keep the government from asking, did you kill this person and forcing the person to answer yes or no. Or using truth serum on a person. In opinion that the 5th in this case is being used for political reasons or to cover a crime. The facts are pretty clear. The fact is that the IRS has been used to attack political opponents for years. It is certainly way past time to stop that practice.

Nonsense.

The intent of the Amendment is clearly comprehensive and not limited only to "torture."

The intent was to safeguard citizens' liberties from the very partisan witch hunt House Republicans are currently conducting.

Amazing that the GOP controlled House is engaged in a "partisan witch hunt" for investigating the partisan use of an agency of the federal government and you too, fail to see any hypocrisy.

 

[GreenBean]

Clayton -STFU - nobody reads your biased opinionated unqualified "legal briefs" so do yourself a favor and stop taking up space on everybodies computer screens - thanks Pal

he's the only one making sense...

The rest of you are salivating for a lynching, without a trial....and without evidence or proof....ONLY SPECULATION.

Amazing how you guys just LOVE THIS GOVERNMENT overreach and bashing and the gvt using their power to squash a citizen for no criminal reasons, only POLITICAL posturing,

while you all screamed bloody murder on how intrusive and horrible and overreaching our gvt was to Bundy....who actually did break the Law....

I GIVE UP, you all are hopeless, and hypocrites to the enth degree, and ya don't even know it...

My GOD woman!!! This whole thread is about government over-reach by Lerner and the IRS. So now you have the unmitigated temerity to call an attempt by Congress to get to the bottom of a possible criminal act, "government over-reach" How friggin' disingenuous can you possibly be?

Perhapsthe congressional atempt to get to the bottom of the break in at McGoverns Campaign Headquarters should be considered "government over-reach"

 

[Freewill]

Because the burden rests solely with the state to prove guilt, not the citizen to prove innocence. Lerner and all citizens are innocent until proved guilty in a court of law. The 5th Amendment prevents the government from pursuing criminal prosecution based only on the statements of citizens, absent objective, documented evidence.

Exactly right, she knows she is guilty and the 5th say she does not have to provide evidence against herself, it does not allow her not to give evidence against someone else. So I am guess immunity is the only answer.

One does not invoke the 5th Amendment to avoid criminal prosecution or punishment, it does not mean one is 'guilty,' or 'hiding something,' but is meant to compel the state to meet the standard necessary to potentially take from a citizen his liberty.

Here is the fifth amendment: The Fifth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution reads:

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

Now granted it has been extended to mean any hearing or such that might lead to criminal charges to be filed, as has been pointed out in other threads. That is why those in organized crime pleaded the 5th.

Let me point out something very off topic, but the 5th, does not mean those who are Americans are to be afforded due process before their are killed? If not an immediate threat?

And the 5th Amendment is indeed significant in this situation, as the intent of the Amendment was to prevent the government from punishing political opponents for purely partisan reasons, which is clearly true in this case – where the republican agenda has nothing to so with the truth or facts.

The actually intent was to stop the government from using torture and such to obtain confessions. Actually it was meant to keep the government from asking, did you kill this person and forcing the person to answer yes or no. Or using truth serum on a person. In opinion that the 5th in this case is being used for political reasons or to cover a crime. The facts are pretty clear. The fact is that the IRS has been used to attack political opponents for years. It is certainly way past time to stop that practice.

Nonsense.

The intent of the Amendment is clearly comprehensive and not limited only to "torture."

The intent was to safeguard citizens' liberties from the very partisan witch hunt House Republicans are currently conducting.

Honestly, what you post is total BS, you should have pled the fifth, or better yet read a book.

 

[saveliberty]

Pretty sure ALL citizens are protected under the 5th Amendment and it was not designed specifically for use in DC. In fact, most who use it will never be in front of a congressional panel ever.