Iraqisation of the conflict ?

[CSM]

posted by me :


I hope this would make you see, that I agree about the problem of trade of weapons...
And that I'm not I'm not hypocrite.

But in this subject - Iraqisation... - I don't speak of France, except if there is question about. I speak of USA. there is alredy lots of threads about french connection.
I was only speaking of USA.

Don't take me as a french, take me as a human beeing. I say that USA should repect the rules. I 've not said that France respected it. But both have to.

And if you say to me : "France doesn't repect, why will USA repect ,", it will be quite stupid : It is not because somebody did a mistake that you can follow to do the same mistake....a clever attitude would be that USA would repect the UN, so they'll show to Europe and France that they - USA - are fair.

My question then becomes where is the UN resolution that the US could not use force in making Iraq comply with the 14 UN resolutions passed prior to our invasion of Iraq? The fact is, the resolutions that were in place at the time allowed for the use of force. Your statement also denies the reality and displays that arrogance we mention so often. The US should be the more "moral" country and abide by the UN, while Europe and especially France, do what the hell they want. Some of the things France and Europe want to do while ignoring the UN are in direct opposition to US interests. You advocate that we allow that to happen to achieve the moral high ground. I say that the moral high ground is not enough reason to compromise our security. You would portray my view as being arrogant; I call it pragmatic.

 

[padisha emperor]

I don't maen you are arrogant.
where did you see it ?

I can understand your point of view, but i don't agree with. Sorry.

But it is that which makes things interesting : when people think differently....Otherwise, it is boring....
Obsequium amicos....

 

[Annie]

My question then becomes where is the UN resolution that the US could not use force in making Iraq comply with the 14 UN resolutions passed prior to our invasion of Iraq? The fact is, the resolutions that were in place at the time allowed for the use of force. Your statement also denies the reality and displays that arrogance we mention so often. The US should be the more "moral" country and abide by the UN, while Europe and especially France, do what the hell they want. Some of the things France and Europe want to do while ignoring the UN are in direct opposition to US interests. You advocate that we allow that to happen to achieve the moral high ground. I say that the moral high ground is not enough reason to compromise our security. You would portray my view as being arrogant; I call it pragmatic.

With that you've hit the target CSM. France in particular is very good at trying to hold all to the 'standards' of any 'document' while they go their own way. They are now already doing it with the EU Rules, trying to consolidate their own power, while flaunting the rules and telling 'newer members' to shut up! Then they wonder why everyone hates them. They are the original unilateralists, but shout out for every other state to be tied to consensus of the world community.

 

[CSM]

With that you've hit the target CSM. France in particular is very good at trying to hold all to the 'standards' of any 'document' while they go their own way. They are now already doing it with the EU Rules, trying to consolidate their own power, while flaunting the rules and telling 'newer members' to shut up! Then they wonder why everyone hates them. They are the original unilateralists, but shout out for every other state to be tied to consensus of the world community.

I wasn't even going to bring up their duplicity regarding the EU rules. Germany also seems to have a problem adhering to agreements they sign.

 

[Annie]

I wasn't even going to bring up their duplicity regarding the EU rules. Germany also seems to have a problem adhering to agreements they sign.

At the current time, it seems that Germany is just trying to ride the French coat tails for their own purposes. I haven't seen this level of duplicity, hypocrisy, and secret agreements in my lifetime. Have to go back to pre-WWI. Sort of Bismarkian....

 

[CSM]

At the current time, it seems that Germany is just trying to ride the French coat tails for their own purposes. I haven't seen this level of duplicity, hypocrisy, and secret agreements in my lifetime. Have to go back to pre-WWI. Sort of Bismarkian....

Germany in particular is having a very real problem with exportation of jobs to some of the new member countries. They are incensed that German companies want to take advantage of the cheap labor in some of the former Soviet satllite countries.

 

[dilloduck]

At the current time, it seems that Germany is just trying to ride the French coat tails for their own purposes. I haven't seen this level of duplicity, hypocrisy, and secret agreements in my lifetime. Have to go back to pre-WWI. Sort of Bismarkian....

I thought the Brits sunk that damn thing!!

 

[Annie]

I thought the Brits sunk that damn thing!!

My favorite modern Machiavellian practioner was a German! :shocked:

 

[dilloduck]

My favorite modern Machiavellian practioner was a German! :shocked:

but the second shoe hasn't fallen--just you wait 'enry 'iggans !!!!

 

[Annie]

but the second shoe hasn't fallen--just you wait 'enry 'iggans !!!!

Unless it's Rather, then there is a millapede with shoes, hundreds of shoes...

(saw this somewhere, if I can find, I'll credit!)

 

[padisha emperor]

Kathianne, you 're subjective, you hate France - don't tell me it is not right... -

France is not such hypocrite as you mean......For you, France is the ugly devil, the absolute evil...and the States are perfect...

I never said that France is perfect...but really not so much bad as you meant..........and US are really not perfect....


So, come abck to the original thread : How many time the US must/should stay in Iraq ?

 

[dilloduck]

Kathianne, you 're subjective, you hate France - don't tell me it is not right... -

France is not such hypocrite as you mean......For you, France is the ugly devil, the absolute evil...and the States are perfect...

I never said that France is perfect...but really not so much bad as you meant..........and US are really not perfect....


So, come abck to the original thread : How many time the US must/should stay in Iraq ?

Hopefully we will have a large base there forever

 

[Annie]

Kathianne, you 're subjective, you hate France - don't tell me it is not right... -

France is not such hypocrite as you mean......For you, France is the ugly devil, the absolute evil...and the States are perfect...

I never said that France is perfect...but really not so much bad as you meant..........and US are really not perfect....


So, come abck to the original thread : How many time the US must/should stay in Iraq ?

Padish, you are the one that is xenophobic. I, like you, have a right to my opinion. I am sorry that it upsets you, but what the heh? Notice I do not have the same problem with Germany? UK? Japan? Pakistan? Actually any of the Euros with the exception of France and her vassal states?

Yes, I do believe that France is our enemy, always thought it a bit arrogant, but since 9/11 have noticed a bit more about the state machinations.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/forums/showpost.php?p=117436&postcount=1

http://www.usmessageboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8265

and the kicker:

http://www.usmessageboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10454

 

[padisha emperor]

The "kicker" ? hohoho....
An old text from the end of 40's or 50's....
The red sentence : it show that france want to be economical leader. Yes, and ? USA want to be the best too. If you say that i'm wrong, you 'ld be hypocrite and of bad faith...
France want to be the best as possible, and the best if it is possible...USA too.

So, what do you expect with your poor links ? show that France want to be a great economical Might ? like every country. Like USA...

show that France and Germany lead Europe ? it is true. UK is he third might, but UK never be really for the EU....always cold for this...It is why UK prefer USA instead of EU.
Your link, i believe the 2nd, make me remember : when Bush spaek of the Entrance of Turkey in EU. What the link ? I know, Turkey and US.
But USA have to not interfer in the EU intern affairs.

In the 3rd link, the red sentence show that France feel Germany like a threat. It was 50 years ago...What does it proove ?
Things change in 50 years, and now, France and Germany are friends. good friends. and at the origin of all the EU : the economic point, but also the military point : France and Germany did since several yaers, maybe more than one decade, a brigade with french and german soldiers.

the first link speak of the french military might.
France has a good army, France has the military leadership in Europe, now, even the french fleet has the same number of ships than the Royal Navy.
France is the only european nation, I believe, who has a modern aicraft carrier. So, what's the problem about this text ? USA do the same thing, but not with their neighbours: with the whole world.

And France doesn't believe that she is the shield of Europe.

 

[Annie]

Padisha, go calm down, you are stuttering in two languages.

 

[padisha emperor]

Padish, you are the one that is xenophobic. I, like you, have a right to my opinion. I am sorry that it upsets you, but what the heh? Notice I do not have the same problem with Germany? UK? Japan? Pakistan? Actually any of the Euros with the exception of France and her vassal states?

Yes, I do believe that France is our enemy, always thought it a bit arrogant, but since 9/11 have noticed a bit more about the state machinations.

I am not xenophobic...why did you say that ? Am I affraid by the foreigners ? no. by you ? no. really not understand why you said that.

Your opinion doesn't upset me, I respect each opinion, even yours

It's only that, you know, it's amazing to read that you really believe that France is your ennemy. It is even cutting.
Because you seems to not make difference between a not really allied country and an ennemy.
You know, an ally is not a dog : when you whistle to a dog, it will come. An ally is not a dog.

 

[padisha emperor]

Padisha, go calm down, you are stuttering in two languages

sorry, i was making other thing simultanetly.

did you understand me ? if you did, it's the main point

 

[Annie]

I am not xenophobic...why did you say that ? Am I affraid by the foreigners ? no. by you ? no. really not understand why you said that.

Your opinion doesn't upset me, I respect each opinion, even yours

It's only that, you know, it's amazing to read that you really believe that France is your ennemy. It is even cutting.
Because you seems to not make difference between a not really allied country and an ennemy.
You know, an ally is not a dog : when you whistle to a dog, it will come. An ally is not a dog.

You read it right, not an ally, truly an enemy. Long time, unrecognized, enemy. Perhaps not the French people, but they support their leaders, as you have pointed out.

To seperate out the people, totally from their government, well that is preposterous. Sort of the excuse that most people in 1930's Germany were not Nazis, at least not the way of Hitler. Hmmm, they did support. They did back up, with some concern, but they liked being the 'leading nation'. I think the French were jealous, thus the post war document for the future.

I do not laugh at our Constitution, much older than what you try to shrug off.

 

[padisha emperor]

I do not laugh at our Constitution, much older than what you try to shrug off

Does it make reference to the french constitution ? (second part of the quoteation) (I'ml not sure to well understoo this english sentence)


Not an ally, truly an ennemy....you mean : "not a dog, not a docile sheep, trly an ennemy".

 

[Annie]

Does it make reference to the french constitution ? (second part of the quoteation) (I'ml not sure to well understoo this english sentence)


Not an ally, truly an ennemy....you mean : "not a dog, not a docile sheep, trly an ennemy".

I mean enemy. One who means harm.