Putin Using Terror For His Ongoing Agenda?

[Annie]

More than likely; he has been trying to centralize the government. It's a really long post, with some excellent links. Very depressing however:

http://themoderatevoice.typepad.com/blog/2004/09/the_draconian_s.html

A draconian snarl can be heard coming from Russia as President Vladimir Putin announced measures that effectively mean a clamp down.

It's a laundry list of measures to curtail freedoms proudly held up years ago as an examples of Russia's seemingly-miraculous conversion to democracy. Rattling them off is just mind bloggling.

Governors and individual members of Parliament? They'd no longer be elected but appointed by the president subject to regional legislature confirmation. The State Duma (lower house) reps? Drawn from party lists rather than elected. State and regional power? More power to the center; weakened state and regional authority.

The Washington Post quotes him as saying in a televised cabinet meeting:
...

 

[NATO AIR]

wow

not surprising but still.

 

[Annie]

wow

not surprising but still.

For anyone that's been following what he's done with newspapers, television, etc., not surprising. Still it's very sad.

 

[NATO AIR]

well, maybe there will be a backlash somehow. let's hope.

 

[NightTrain]

U.S.S.R., anyone?

 

[DKSuddeth]

so we can applaud a clampdown in the US to fight terror, but not in russia?

 

[Annie]

so we can applaud a clampdown in the US to fight terror, but not in russia?

DK, apples and oranges. Last I saw Dan Rather was on the News last night, no one speaks of the government taking him out. The electoral system is not under attack, (oh unless you're referring to the attempted 'wide intentions' of the gop to deny the blacks their right to vote?)

 

[dilloduck]

DK, apples and oranges. Last I saw Dan Rather was on the News last night, no one speaks of the government taking him out. The electoral system is not under attack, (oh unless you're referring to the attempted 'wide intentions' of the gop to deny the blacks their right to vote?)

It's the Russian version of the Patriot Act, I think.

 

[Annie]

It's the Russian version of the Patriot Act, I think.

Not even close, in form or substance.

 

[DKSuddeth]

DK, apples and oranges. Last I saw Dan Rather was on the News last night, no one speaks of the government taking him out. The electoral system is not under attack, (oh unless you're referring to the attempted 'wide intentions' of the gop to deny the blacks their right to vote?)

good point, I should have added the exemption to the press in my statement. I was referring more to the clampdown upon us, as citizens.

 

[Zhukov]

More than likely; he has been trying to centralize the government. It's a really long post, with some excellent links. Very depressing however:

http://themoderatevoice.typepad.com/blog/2004/09/the_draconian_s.html

Good for him. Democracy isn't for everyone. Many peoples don't even want it. The Russian people have shown repeatedly throughout history that they do not. At least not too much, hence the term "managed democracy" used by Putin and his advisors.

They Russians want a strong leader? Fine, I don't begrudge them that choice. In fact I support it. I just hope, for their sake, the leader they get does right by them. For our sake, I hope Putin can put aside the indocrinated xenophobia of the Communist era and learn to recognize areas of common interest with the United States.

 

[Annie]

Good for him. Democracy isn't for everyone. Many peoples don't even want it. The Russian people have shown repeatedly throughout history that they do not. At least not too much, hence the term "managed democracy" used by Putin and his advisors.

They Russians want a strong leader? Fine, I don't begrudge them that choice. In fact I support it. I just hope, for their sake, the leader they get does right by them. For our sake, I hope Putin can put aside the indocrinated xenophobia of the Communist era and learn to recognize areas of common interest with the United States.

You may well be correct. I have a Ukranian friend that repeats that the people use their 'freedoms' to enslave others. Sounds like the 'normal folk' are more like mafia members...

 

[wade]

How can you people rationalize this. Can't you see that Russia is going full on totalitarian?

Don't you see how it is absurd that you are now saying that "some people just don't want democracy" w.r.t. what is going on in Russia, yet use the bringing of democracy to the people of Iraq as a justification for that war now that the WMD thing has been proven a lie?

It's pure hippocracy. You will justify anything as long as you think it is anti-Islam. Next you will be cheering when Russia bombs cities, villages, and towns in Chechnya, even though you know this will mean thousands of children will have died who have nothing to do with terrorism.

Wade.

 

[Annie]

How can you people rationalize this. Can't you see that Russia is going full on totalitarian?

Don't you see how it is absurd that you are now saying that "some people just don't want democracy" w.r.t. what is going on in Russia, yet use the bringing of democracy to the people of Iraq as a justification for that war now that the WMD thing has been proven a lie?

It's pure hippocracy. You will justify anything as long as you think it is anti-Islam. Next you will be cheering when Russia bombs cities, villages, and towns in Chechnya, even though you know this will mean thousands of children will have died who have nothing to do with terrorism.

Wade.

To whom are you directing this?

 

[wade]

To whom are you directing this?

Most of the poster's in this thread. They know who they are.

Wade.

 

[NATO AIR]

Well one realistic thought is this:
Not everyone will have American style democracy. I'm sure that if the Chinese ever have a democracy, it will be quite different from the American, or even European version.

However, what Putin is doing is far from strengthening society or the government's ability to fight the WOT. he's just putting more power into his hands, a move that will ultimately send him flat on his face. if more terrorist attacks happen (i hope not, god please not another beslan), the majority of the blame will most certainly be on putin, not regional governors who are appointed by him.

 

[Zhukov]

How can you people rationalize this.

I'm the only one I see rationalizing it, and considering I'm a fascist I don't see the problem.

yet use the bringing of democracy to the people of Iraq as a justification for that war

Helping to bring democracy to Iraq will probably turn out to be a good thing for them, and the greater middle east, but I don't use it as a justification, though others may. And it will likely turn out to be a "managed democracy" and that's fine with me. The Liberal Democrat Party of Japan has been in power almost continously since 1955 and that country seems to be doing alright.

You will justify anything as long as you think it is anti-Islam

I'll support just about anything that's pro-America. I support how we armed the Mujahadeen to defeat the Soviets but now oppose them. I support how we armed the Soviets to defeat the Nazis but later opposed them. But again, we're just talking about me.

You broad inaccurate generalizations of people on this board are just that.