Intellectual Dishonesty or a Lie

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by Foxfyre, May 19, 2011.

  1. Foxfyre
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    Foxfyre Eternal optimist Gold Supporting Member Supporting Member

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    I have been thinking about this for a couple of days now and trying to figure out if I was right or wrong.

    Recently I was criticized for accusing another member of lying. In my opinion, I did not accuse the member of lying. My intent was to say that it was intellectually dishonest to not consider any argument other than the one the member had chosen to believe.

    My general definition of intellectual dishonesty is:

    • Advocacy for or promotion of a position while intentionally omitting mitigating factors.
    • Refusal to consider another point of view or verifiable facts while stubbornly defending one’s point of view.
    • Extreme partisanship or ideological perspective that assigns positive or negative attributes to a person or group for no reason other than they do not agree.
    • Accusing another of lying or being dishonest without any ability to defend the accusation.
    • Repeating something as truth because you want it to be truth even after it has been shown that a belief is flawed or incorrect.

    The person does not intentionally lie and is therefore not a liar. In each case, a person believes or wants something to be a truth so strongly that he or she is unwilling to consider or accept anything that might compromise or weaken what he or she has adopted as truth.

    I’m sure others can think of other truths for the definition or some may have a good argument for why some bullet points should not be included.

    So what do you think? Is intellectual dishonesty the same thing as lying?

    Or is it something else?
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2011
  2. logical4u
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    logical4u citizen

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    Since "racist" and "bigot" have lost their bite, it is the new insult to silence the opposing views.
     
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  3. manifold
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    manifold Diamond Member

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    Depends on how technical you want to be in your definition of 'lying'.

    If you narrowly define it as knowingly posting a falsehood, then intellectual dishonesty is not lying.

    If you broadly define it as knowingly attempting to deceive, then intellectual dishonesty is lying.
     
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  4. manifold
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    manifold Diamond Member

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    PS: I'd wager a king's ransom that Ravi is the poster alluded to in the OP.

    But whatcha gonna do? :dunno:
     
  5. Foxfyre
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    Foxfyre Eternal optimist Gold Supporting Member Supporting Member

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    ? Did you intend to say these two sentences as you said them Mani? Because I'm not seeing any difference beween the two. If you did intend to post them as they are, please explain.

    And no, I am not alluding to Ravi at all.
     
  6. martybegan
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    martybegan Gold Member

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    To me a lie requires that the statment made is 100% untrue, and you know, for a fact, that the statement is untrue. If any part of it is open to interpretation then the use of the word "lie" is not mandated.

    As for intellectual dishonesty, that is a term with far more ambiguity. Lets use a recent example from Daily Kos.

    Daily Kos: Poll: GOP action hero Chris Christie has net negative approval rating

    The article notes that Christie's approval is down, but trys to skew the reason towards people's dislike of his hardline stance on state workers, budget etc. However if you go to another site, you see one of the reasons being that people expected thier property taxes to go down more, and they didnt.

    Poll: New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie Attracting More Critics « CBS New York

    This is not included in the Kos analysis, as it does not play towards the story they want to tell, it in fact means some people dont like Chirsties because he isnt cutting ENOUGH stuff to lower thier taxes.

    The above to me intellectual dishonesty, as you state in point 1. its is not a lie, mearly spin.
     
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  7. Foxfyre
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    Foxfyre Eternal optimist Gold Supporting Member Supporting Member

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    That is true. BUT. . . .

    Is calling other members 'racist' and 'bigot' to silence them an illustration of intellectual dishonesty?
     
  8. Foxfyre
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    Foxfyre Eternal optimist Gold Supporting Member Supporting Member

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    Bingo. The first bullet point of my definition is advocacy for or promoting something as fact while intentionally omitting mitigating factors. Daily Kos and some other sources are notorious for that kind of intellectual dishonesty.
     
  9. HUGGY
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    HUGGY I Post Because I Care Supporting Member

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    With all due respect...BULLSHIT!!!

    People are responsible for ALL of their actions and that includes what they say, type, pass on or dream up.

    Something that is not true..is a lie.

    True story!
     
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  10. AllieBaba
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    AllieBaba BANNED

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    Yes.

    It's all about intent. Leaving out pertinent information when making an argument, when you KNOW that the information makes your points invalid, is just lying. Intellectual dishonesty is just lying.

    There are no *degrees* of lies. A lie is a lie.

    Not to be confused with a mistake...someone who just has incorrect information and believes it and passes it on...that person may or may not actually be lying. But if that person has been shown that their information is faulty, and they continue to spread it as if it is factual...that person is a liar.
     

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