Information: Evidence for a Creator

[ChesBayJJ]

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On further thought, This is an additional fatal flaw. From the conclusions"

1. Since the DNA code of all life-forms is clearly within the UDI definition domain of information, we conclude there must be a sender (LI 1, 2)

That is false. There is no need for a sender. And the absence of that need wipes away the remaining conclusions. Again, I'll be back with a more detailed argument.

 

[ChesBayJJ]

As to the complexity of DNA argument.

A billion universes each populated by billions of typing monkeys could not type out a single gene of this genome

The author assumes the first life was as complex as life today. Absolutely not so. We don't know what the earliest life was like but all it needed to be was a molecule with the ability to replicate and evolve. There was no requirement for complex genomes with tens of thousands of genes and millions of base pairs.

Here is a link:

1. Biochemistry is not chance. It inevitably produces complex products. Amino acids and other complex molecules are even known to form in space.
2. Nobody knows what the most primitive cells looked like. All the cells around today are the product of billions of years of evolution. The earliest self-replicator was likely very much simpler than anything alive today; self-replicating molecules need not be all that complex (Lee et al. 1996), and protein-building systems can also be simple (Ball 2001; Tamura and Schimmel 2001).
3. This claim is an example of the argument from incredulity. Nobody denies that the origin of life is an extremely difficult problem. That it has not been solved, though, does not mean it is impossible.

Much more

CB010.2 Origin of the first cells

And this also effectively deals with the sender argument. There is no requirement for a sender. Complex molecules self assemble in a great many forms. Just ask any med student that has taken organic chemistry.

And here is an experiment from more than 50 years ago that demonstrates this

http://www.ableweb.org/volumes/vol-7/5-peifer.pdf

There is a great deal of information available that refutes the arguments of the creationists and intelligent designers.

This is an excellent starting point. If you have the interest and are sufficiently educated, I highly recommend doing some reading.

An Index to Creationist Claims

See ya later

 

[CynthiaZ]

Matter and energy are used to convey information. They are not the information.

I really don't think you or the author of that article understand information theory and quantum physics.

How Information Theory Unifies Quantum Mechanics Motherboard

Physical information - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Is Information Fundamental - The Nature of Reality The Nature of Reality PBS

Matter and energy ARE information.

You didn't read the article, or you wouldn't have posted this BS. It contains the universal definition of information. Read the article, then we might be able to have a intelligent discussion.

I told you time and again that the author of the article you posted has no knowledge of information theory. His definition of information is not the same as the definition of information in information theory. He is just like Deepak Chopra spewing shit about stuff he does not understand and you in your desperation for validation of your belief system are nothing parroting little sheep who is even more ignorant than the author of that article because you ate the regurgitated bullshit he spewed.

 

[Mr.Right]

Matter and energy are used to convey information. They are not the information.

I really don't think you or the author of that article understand information theory and quantum physics.

How Information Theory Unifies Quantum Mechanics Motherboard

Physical information - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Is Information Fundamental - The Nature of Reality The Nature of Reality PBS

Matter and energy ARE information.

You didn't read the article, or you wouldn't have posted this BS. It contains the universal definition of information. Read the article, then we might be able to have a intelligent discussion.

I told you time and again that the author of the article you posted has no knowledge of information theory. His definition of information is not the same as the definition of information in information theory. He is just like Deepak Chopra spewing shit about stuff he does not understand and you in your desperation for validation of your belief system are nothing parroting little sheep who is even more ignorant than the author of that article because you ate the regurgitated bullshit he spewed.

My post has nothing to do with information theory. It is not relevant to the topic. It's all about the universal definition of information, and how it relates to meaningful information. Quit trying to deflect the discussion.

 

[CynthiaZ]

Matter and energy are used to convey information. They are not the information.

I really don't think you or the author of that article understand information theory and quantum physics.

How Information Theory Unifies Quantum Mechanics Motherboard

Physical information - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Is Information Fundamental - The Nature of Reality The Nature of Reality PBS

Matter and energy ARE information.

You didn't read the article, or you wouldn't have posted this BS. It contains the universal definition of information. Read the article, then we might be able to have a intelligent discussion.

I told you time and again that the author of the article you posted has no knowledge of information theory. His definition of information is not the same as the definition of information in information theory. He is just like Deepak Chopra spewing shit about stuff he does not understand and you in your desperation for validation of your belief system are nothing parroting little sheep who is even more ignorant than the author of that article because you ate the regurgitated bullshit he spewed.

My post has nothing to do with information theory. It is not relevant to the topic. It's all about the universal definition of information, and how it relates to meaningful information. Quit trying to deflect the discussion.

Then I don't think you read the damn article you posted. Because that idiot is trying to connect information theory with Christian apologetics the same way New Age Gurus misuse quantum theory to justify their bullshit beliefs.

 

[Bonita Louise]

Are you being deliberately obtuse? There is no method whereby matter and energy can create something that is immaterial. Information is immaterial. Get it now?

You lost me with that comment. I don't understand what you mean when you say information is immaterial. Are you saying information doesn't exist until it is described by an intelligent being? Are you referring to knowledge as different from information?

Did you even read the article? It explains all that.

I read the article and I disagree with it. Perhaps you can explain it to me more clearly.

Here is the final conclusion of your article

The presupposition of the Bible is that there is a God who created the universe, the earth, and all organisms living on earth. This has been shown to be consistent with scientific discoveries that there is a nonmaterial third fundamental entity called information that originates only from an intelligent source. The universe consists of more than just mass and energy, and the information found within the DNA system of all life originated from an all-knowing, all-powerful Creator God.

And again, I disagree with it. The information contained in DNA is the result of complex chemical bonding that required only the laws of physics. It requires no intelligence. If you wish to believe the Big Bang was the creation of an all-powerful all-knowing God, I have no complaints. But from that point onward, it has all been operating on autopilot. God has merely been a bystander.

I find your descriptive choice of 'auto pilot' interesting..it suggests a pre arranged sequence..perhaps by a 'source' that has mastered the processes of cause and effect.

 

[ChesBayJJ]

I find your descriptive choice of 'auto pilot' interesting..it suggests a pre arranged sequence..perhaps by a 'source' that has mastered the processes of cause and effect.

Perhaps autopilot is a poor choice of words, but my meaning is that the laws of physics, which in turn define the processes of chemical bonding, have defined the origin and evolution of life here on earth. It is not totally random nor pre-determined.