"Income Inequality": So What?

[thereisnospoon]

Most people who are poor or low income sure as hell do not "choose" to be. How fucking stupid would a person have to be to "choose" poverty?

Sure they do. Every time they choose to stay up all night drinking rather then going to bed early so they getup and do a hard day's work, they are choosing to be poor. Every time they choose to do metha-amphetamines and rot their brains, they are choosing to be poor. Every time they choose to vegetate in front of the television rather than studying and getting good grades, they are choosing to be poor.

Bulcrap.

My friend graduated highschool and got a 2 year degree at the local community college. She couldn't get a job in her field because she has torrettes syndrom. She's been working as a maid for many, many years. She is poor and works her ass off. She works so hard that at 55 her body is breaking down. Soon she won't be able to do even that menial job, but you'll continue to call her lazy and stupid because she's the working poor. You really think she CHOSE this? She could have gone on disability due to her tourettes and sat on her ass and collected a paycheck from the government and subsidized housing and food stamps, etc...but she chose to work for a living instead and you have the gall to say she "chose" to be poor?

Do you have any idea how much a college education costs these days? Do you know what it guarentees? NOTHING!!! my niece graduated from the UW and works as a clerk at Bartells. They are sending her to pharmacology school and will be employing her after she finishes. Her bacholor degree got her NOTHING!!!!! A lot of college educated people aren't finding jobs today but I'm sure you think it's because they are lazy and CHOOSE to be poor. My son graduated from DeVry with a 4.0 and still hasn't found a job. You think he's lazy? That he CHOSE to be poor? He owes thousands on his education and he can't even get a mw job to help him pay off those loans.

I suggest you get out there and take a look at today's world because you sure as hell aren't living in it.

Oh please.....First, your friend that has Tourettes Syndrome....There are many manifestations of this disease. And since it is a recognized disability, your friend is not the type of person being discussed here. In fact your friend is precisely the type of person that social safety nets were created. She wants to work..That is fine. If she is a skilled individual, then she is just as employable as the next person. If in fact she is able to control her Tourettes with meds, no reason why she cannot improve her income potential. If she is suffering from discrimination, well she has rights and a case.
Your niece is going to pharmacology school. Terrific. Where's the problem? DO you think she is somehow OWED something?...
As for your son...Please do not tell us he "cannot find a job"...What did he learn at De Vry?
Newsflash, those tech schools have low priority with HR managers. They will hire people who have experience with degrees first. Then they will look for people with degrees. Then maybe somewhere down the line the tech school grad will get a shot. No guarantees. That is correct. And that is the way it should be.
The cost of higher education....Look no further than the federal government. Because of federal interference and so called "help" the cost of higher learning has skyrocketed. With all the incoming freshman students starting school with their pockets stuffed with student loans and other grants, colleges and universities have no incentive to control the cost of tuition.
Since when is a college education supposed to be "affordable"?
What I see here is a lot of whining. And it seems you have a family that may be experiencing problems that are self inflicted.
I see where you are coming from. We're all supposed to feel sorry for your son and niece and simply give them what you believe they deserve. After all, why do the work that so many others must. We'll just give Sheila's people a push to the front of the line.
Would that make you happy?

 

[Againsheila]

Sure they do. Every time they choose to stay up all night drinking rather then going to bed early so they getup and do a hard day's work, they are choosing to be poor. Every time they choose to do metha-amphetamines and rot their brains, they are choosing to be poor. Every time they choose to vegetate in front of the television rather than studying and getting good grades, they are choosing to be poor.

Bulcrap.

My friend graduated highschool and got a 2 year degree at the local community college. She couldn't get a job in her field because she has torrettes syndrom. She's been working as a maid for many, many years. She is poor and works her ass off. She works so hard that at 55 her body is breaking down. Soon she won't be able to do even that menial job, but you'll continue to call her lazy and stupid because she's the working poor. You really think she CHOSE this? She could have gone on disability due to her tourettes and sat on her ass and collected a paycheck from the government and subsidized housing and food stamps, etc...but she chose to work for a living instead and you have the gall to say she "chose" to be poor?

Do you have any idea how much a college education costs these days? Do you know what it guarentees? NOTHING!!! my niece graduated from the UW and works as a clerk at Bartells. They are sending her to pharmacology school and will be employing her after she finishes. Her bacholor degree got her NOTHING!!!!! A lot of college educated people aren't finding jobs today but I'm sure you think it's because they are lazy and CHOOSE to be poor. My son graduated from DeVry with a 4.0 and still hasn't found a job. You think he's lazy? That he CHOSE to be poor? He owes thousands on his education and he can't even get a mw job to help him pay off those loans.

I suggest you get out there and take a look at today's world because you sure as hell aren't living in it.

Oh please.....First, your friend that has Tourettes Syndrome....There are many manifestations of this disease. And since it is a recognized disability, your friend is not the type of person being discussed here. In fact your friend is precisely the type of person that social safety nets were created. She wants to work..That is fine. If she is a skilled individual, then she is just as employable as the next person. If in fact she is able to control her Tourettes with meds, no reason why she cannot improve her income potential. If she is suffering from discrimination, well she has rights and a case.
Your niece is going to pharmacology school. Terrific. Where's the problem? DO you think she is somehow OWED something?...
As for your son...Please do not tell us he "cannot find a job"...What did he learn at De Vry?
Newsflash, those tech schools have low priority with HR managers. They will hire people who have experience with degrees first. Then they will look for people with degrees. Then maybe somewhere down the line the tech school grad will get a shot. No guarantees. That is correct. And that is the way it should be.
The cost of higher education....Look no further than the federal government. Because of federal interference and so called "help" the cost of higher learning has skyrocketed. With all the incoming freshman students starting school with their pockets stuffed with student loans and other grants, colleges and universities have no incentive to control the cost of tuition.
Since when is a college education supposed to be "affordable"?
What I see here is a lot of whining. And it seems you have a family that may be experiencing problems that are self inflicted.
I see where you are coming from. We're all supposed to feel sorry for your son and niece and simply give them what you believe they deserve. After all, why do the work that so many others must. We'll just give Sheila's people a push to the front of the line.
Would that make you happy?

Yes, that was the whole point of my tirade. That MY people should go to the head of the line. <by the way, that was sarcastic> Go out and spend some time in the world and see how things are really working today. A college degree doesn't guarantee you ANYTHING but a degree. Many, many working people are underpaid or underemployed and they are not lazy or stupid. In fact, only a small minority of the poor are drug addicts as you seem to think and I don't think many of them are the "working" poor.

And yes, I think my friend is OWED a decent living. I think the lowest paid worker in the richest country in the world should make enough to live on without having to resort to moving back in with mom when she's in her 50's.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Bulcrap.

My friend graduated highschool and got a 2 year degree at the local community college. She couldn't get a job in her field because she has torrettes syndrom. She's been working as a maid for many, many years. She is poor and works her ass off. She works so hard that at 55 her body is breaking down. Soon she won't be able to do even that menial job, but you'll continue to call her lazy and stupid because she's the working poor. You really think she CHOSE this? She could have gone on disability due to her tourettes and sat on her ass and collected a paycheck from the government and subsidized housing and food stamps, etc...but she chose to work for a living instead and you have the gall to say she "chose" to be poor?

Do you have any idea how much a college education costs these days? Do you know what it guarentees? NOTHING!!! my niece graduated from the UW and works as a clerk at Bartells. They are sending her to pharmacology school and will be employing her after she finishes. Her bacholor degree got her NOTHING!!!!! A lot of college educated people aren't finding jobs today but I'm sure you think it's because they are lazy and CHOOSE to be poor. My son graduated from DeVry with a 4.0 and still hasn't found a job. You think he's lazy? That he CHOSE to be poor? He owes thousands on his education and he can't even get a mw job to help him pay off those loans.

I suggest you get out there and take a look at today's world because you sure as hell aren't living in it.

Oh please.....First, your friend that has Tourettes Syndrome....There are many manifestations of this disease. And since it is a recognized disability, your friend is not the type of person being discussed here. In fact your friend is precisely the type of person that social safety nets were created. She wants to work..That is fine. If she is a skilled individual, then she is just as employable as the next person. If in fact she is able to control her Tourettes with meds, no reason why she cannot improve her income potential. If she is suffering from discrimination, well she has rights and a case.
Your niece is going to pharmacology school. Terrific. Where's the problem? DO you think she is somehow OWED something?...
As for your son...Please do not tell us he "cannot find a job"...What did he learn at De Vry?
Newsflash, those tech schools have low priority with HR managers. They will hire people who have experience with degrees first. Then they will look for people with degrees. Then maybe somewhere down the line the tech school grad will get a shot. No guarantees. That is correct. And that is the way it should be.
The cost of higher education....Look no further than the federal government. Because of federal interference and so called "help" the cost of higher learning has skyrocketed. With all the incoming freshman students starting school with their pockets stuffed with student loans and other grants, colleges and universities have no incentive to control the cost of tuition.
Since when is a college education supposed to be "affordable"?
What I see here is a lot of whining. And it seems you have a family that may be experiencing problems that are self inflicted.
I see where you are coming from. We're all supposed to feel sorry for your son and niece and simply give them what you believe they deserve. After all, why do the work that so many others must. We'll just give Sheila's people a push to the front of the line.
Would that make you happy?

Yes, that was the whole point of my tirade. That MY people should go to the head of the line. <by the way, that was sarcastic> Go out and spend some time in the world and see how things are really working today. A college degree doesn't guarantee you ANYTHING but a degree. Many, many working people are underpaid or underemployed and they are not lazy or stupid. In fact, only a small minority of the poor are drug addicts as you seem to think and I don't think many of them are the "working" poor.

And yes, I think my friend is OWED a decent living. I think the lowest paid worker in the richest country in the world should make enough to live on without having to resort to moving back in with mom when she's in her 50's.

And who do you believe are those who should pay off Sheila's list of the OWED?

Gotta tell ya there sweet lumps. No one owes anyone anything.
I spend time in the world every day. I am IN the world..See, I thought it beneath dignity to look for a handout. Aside from some continuing education classes and a few courses I took at various community colleges, I have no formal education. I am of the school of hard knocks. It's the best school known to human kind. Ya know why? Because this is where one gets their daily dose of reality. This is the school where you don't get to wait until dismissal time to get your ass kicked.
Instead of having you complain about how rotten everything is and come up with your excuse du jour, perhaps your son and niece should be the ones "getting out in the world"...
So please, don't whine to me. I don't want to hear it.

 

[logical4u]

Most people who are poor or low income sure as hell do not "choose" to be. How fucking stupid would a person have to be to "choose" poverty?

Sure they do. Every time they choose to stay up all night drinking rather then going to bed early so they getup and do a hard day's work, they are choosing to be poor. Every time they choose to do metha-amphetamines and rot their brains, they are choosing to be poor. Every time they choose to vegetate in front of the television rather than studying and getting good grades, they are choosing to be poor.

There is truth to what you say. Nevertheless, those who spend a lot of time looking down on welfare recipients are usually those who, whenever they look elsewhere, look up.

Looking up to the Lord is a good thing!

 

[Againsheila]

Oh please.....First, your friend that has Tourettes Syndrome....There are many manifestations of this disease. And since it is a recognized disability, your friend is not the type of person being discussed here. In fact your friend is precisely the type of person that social safety nets were created. She wants to work..That is fine. If she is a skilled individual, then she is just as employable as the next person. If in fact she is able to control her Tourettes with meds, no reason why she cannot improve her income potential. If she is suffering from discrimination, well she has rights and a case.
Your niece is going to pharmacology school. Terrific. Where's the problem? DO you think she is somehow OWED something?...
As for your son...Please do not tell us he "cannot find a job"...What did he learn at De Vry?
Newsflash, those tech schools have low priority with HR managers. They will hire people who have experience with degrees first. Then they will look for people with degrees. Then maybe somewhere down the line the tech school grad will get a shot. No guarantees. That is correct. And that is the way it should be.
The cost of higher education....Look no further than the federal government. Because of federal interference and so called "help" the cost of higher learning has skyrocketed. With all the incoming freshman students starting school with their pockets stuffed with student loans and other grants, colleges and universities have no incentive to control the cost of tuition.
Since when is a college education supposed to be "affordable"?
What I see here is a lot of whining. And it seems you have a family that may be experiencing problems that are self inflicted.
I see where you are coming from. We're all supposed to feel sorry for your son and niece and simply give them what you believe they deserve. After all, why do the work that so many others must. We'll just give Sheila's people a push to the front of the line.
Would that make you happy?

Yes, that was the whole point of my tirade. That MY people should go to the head of the line. <by the way, that was sarcastic> Go out and spend some time in the world and see how things are really working today. A college degree doesn't guarantee you ANYTHING but a degree. Many, many working people are underpaid or underemployed and they are not lazy or stupid. In fact, only a small minority of the poor are drug addicts as you seem to think and I don't think many of them are the "working" poor.

And yes, I think my friend is OWED a decent living. I think the lowest paid worker in the richest country in the world should make enough to live on without having to resort to moving back in with mom when she's in her 50's.

And who do you believe are those who should pay off Sheila's list of the OWED?

Gotta tell ya there sweet lumps. No one owes anyone anything.
I spend time in the world every day. I am IN the world..See, I thought it beneath dignity to look for a handout. Aside from some continuing education classes and a few courses I took at various community colleges, I have no formal education. I am of the school of hard knocks. It's the best school known to human kind. Ya know why? Because this is where one gets their daily dose of reality. This is the school where you don't get to wait until dismissal time to get your ass kicked.
Instead of having you complain about how rotten everything is and come up with your excuse du jour, perhaps your son and niece should be the ones "getting out in the world"...
So please, don't whine to me. I don't want to hear it.

Everybody owes somebody something. Employers owe their employees a decent salary. Employees owe their employers a decent work ethic. Parents owe their children a decent upbringing. Children owe their parents help in the end. Neighbors owe it to their neighbors to keep their yards trash free and mowed and upkept. teachers owe their students and education. Students owe their teachers their attention and their best energies to learn from them. YOU owe poor people an apology.

You thought it beneath dignity to look for a handout but you think my friend with torrettes should give up her dignity and get a hand out? Instead of lauding her for her contributions and for working even though she's been poor, you're all over her saying she should "sue" she should be getting government assistance" etc. Do you even know what you are saying?

I don't give a crap what you want to hear. I would like you to SEE what's happening in our country. We no longer live in a country where the average person can work their way up the ladder, the rungs are missing. We no longer live in a world where teenagers can get an after school job, those have been taken by the immigrants both legal and illegal. We no longer live in a world where minimum wage can put a roof over your head. In 1968 minimum wage had the highest spending power in history and the top tax rate was 70%. Then laws were changed. Now minimum wage has the lowest spending power in history and corporations can borrow from their retirement funds. leaving no money to pay those workers who've spent their lives working for those companies and contributed their wages to that retirement. Companies like United Airlines have completely closed their retirement funds and given them over to the feds. That's right, our tax dollars are now paying retirement for people who put their time in at the company, took pay cuts etc, to GET that retirement.

I'll bet you don't think United owes that money to those people who worked all those years for them do you? No, you think WE owe them that money. Now they've set a precedent, watch all the other corporations follow suit and we will have an even larger amount of our money going to "entitlements". In this case, CORPORATE WELFARE.

BTW, my niece and my son are out in the world. My niece is going to pharmacology school, paid for by Bartel's. My son hasn't had any such luck. He volunteers his time at the church, at the theater, privately tutoring poor people in how to use the computer, etc. He may not have a paying job, but that doesn't mean he sits on his butt doing nothing as you think all poor people do....

When is the last time YOU gave of yourself without the expectation of getting anything back? IOW, when is the last time you didn't think anyone owed you for your time and attention? When is the last time you volunteered???

Here's some reality for you. I have a friend in construction. Do you know what he was paid straight out of high school more than 30 years ago? $15.00 an hour. Do you know how much he's making in construction now? $15.00 an hour and that's when he can find someone to hire him They don't want him because they think he's too old. I guess he's just another one of those lazy poor people that spend all their time watching tv and taking drugs according to you....

 

[ZagZagel]

Wow, I'll admit I didn't read all 50 pages of this thread, but from what I did read there's a lot of stupidity on both sides of this issue going on here. Its simple supply&demand economics, if the people who actually make the products can't afford to buy them then the economy is doomed to failure. Yes some people have skills that make them more valuable, but that difference in value has become skewed in our current economy. An Architect is worth more than a brick layer, but only 15-30 times more, not 2000 times more. The man who starts a business is entitled to more of the profits from the company, but he shouldn't be so overpaid that he can painlessly own vacation houses in Hawaii and Europe while his line workers can't afford to go to the dentist or to even put food on the table. Hard work and self improvement should be rewarded, but leaching off of others hard work should be derided and discouraged.

As far as Mitt Romney's wealth goes, while some of it was made legitimately, the majority was made by buying undervalue assets and stripping out anything of value. When anyone makes money not by adding value, but by removing it, that's bad for the economy and the country.

A few quotes from Henry Ford to drive my point home:
"A business that makes nothing but money is a poor business."

"There is one rule for the industrialist and that is: Make the best quality of goods possible at the lowest cost possible, paying the highest wages possible."

"It is not the employer who pays the wages. Employers only handle the money. It is the customer who pays the wages."

 

[Cecilie1200]

Wow, I'll admit I didn't read all 50 pages of this thread, but from what I did read there's a lot of stupidity on both sides of this issue going on here. Its simple supply&demand economics, if the people who actually make the products can't afford to buy them then the economy is doomed to failure. Yes some people have skills that make them more valuable, but that difference in value has become skewed in our current economy. An Architect is worth more than a brick layer, but only 15-30 times more, not 2000 times more. The man who starts a business is entitled to more of the profits from the company, but he shouldn't be so overpaid that he can painlessly own vacation houses in Hawaii and Europe while his line workers can't afford to go to the dentist or to even put food on the table. Hard work and self improvement should be rewarded, but leaching off of others hard work should be derided and discouraged.

As far as Mitt Romney's wealth goes, while some of it was made legitimately, the majority was made by buying undervalue assets and stripping out anything of value. When anyone makes money not by adding value, but by removing it, that's bad for the economy and the country.

A few quotes from Henry Ford to drive my point home:
"A business that makes nothing but money is a poor business."

"There is one rule for the industrialist and that is: Make the best quality of goods possible at the lowest cost possible, paying the highest wages possible."

"It is not the employer who pays the wages. Employers only handle the money. It is the customer who pays the wages."

You babble a lot, and for the life of me, I can't see a single REAL thing you said.

"People have to be able to afford the things they make." Really? Go tell that to the folks who build yachts. How many of the people working to make Rolls-Royces actually drive one, do you think? Where do you dimwits GET this mindless, parroted drivel, anyway?

Every single cent of Mitt Romney's wealth was made legally, aka "legitimately", and I defy you to prove otherwise. Your personal, ignorant prejudices against venture capitalists do not constitute proof.

"Buying undervalue assets and stripping out anything of value"? What the fuck does that even MEAN? That he purchased companies that were being devalued because of a lot of bloat and dead weight, and he cut out that dead weight to get to the stuff that was actually valuable? Why is that a BAD thing? Where would the virtue have been in sitting on the sidelines and doing nothing while the dead weight dragged those companies into oblivion?

As to your sob stories of "painlessly afforded vacation homes while the line workers can't put food on the table", cite us an example, twerp. No one's interested in hearing your fantasies here. Try a 900 number for that.

 

[midcan5]

http://www.usmessageboard.com/economy/258340-the-price-of-inequality-2.html

'The Hideous Inequality Exposed by Hurricane Sandy'

"Divides between the rich and the poor are nothing new in New York, but the storm brought them vividly to the surface. There were residents like me who could invest all of their time and energy into protecting their families. And there were New Yorkers who could not....Those with a car could flee. Those with wealth could move into a hotel. Those with steady jobs could decline to come into work. But the city's cooks, doormen, maintenance men, taxi drivers and maids left their loved ones at home."

The Hideous Inequality Exposed by Hurricane Sandy - David Rohde - The Atlantic

 

[midcan5]

You babble a lot, and for the life of me, I can't see a single REAL thing you said.

"People have to be able to afford the things they make." Really? Go tell that to the folks who build yachts. How many of the people working to make Rolls-Royces actually drive one, do you think? Where do you dimwits GET this mindless, parroted drivel, anyway?

Every single cent of Mitt Romney's wealth was made legally, aka "legitimately", and I defy you to prove otherwise. Your personal, ignorant prejudices against venture capitalists do not constitute proof....

One wonders what world you live in? Reality it seems cannot change the mind of a blind partisan manged by wingnut agitprop, but for those who still can think on their own, please see these two links.

Mitt, Tagg, And The Romney Family

The Philosopher's Stone: THE MYTH OF THE SELF-MADE MAN


or my piece here: http://www.usmessageboard.com/economy/50564-libertarianism-in-a-nutshell-ii.html


"Many conservatives and libertarians defend the current levels of income inequality on the basis of merit. They claim the rich got rich because they worked harder, longer or smarter than the rest. However, researchers have conducted a vast number of empirical studies on what factors contribute to success, and in what proportion. A classic example of one of these studies is the 1972 book Inequality, by Christopher Jencks. (1) And these studies show that the meritocrat's position is not just arguably wrong, but clearly wrong." The rich get rich because of their merit.

.

 

[Cecilie1200]

http://www.usmessageboard.com/economy/258340-the-price-of-inequality-2.html

'The Hideous Inequality Exposed by Hurricane Sandy'

"Divides between the rich and the poor are nothing new in New York, but the storm brought them vividly to the surface. There were residents like me who could invest all of their time and energy into protecting their families. And there were New Yorkers who could not....Those with a car could flee. Those with wealth could move into a hotel. Those with steady jobs could decline to come into work. But the city's cooks, doormen, maintenance men, taxi drivers and maids left their loved ones at home."

The Hideous Inequality Exposed by Hurricane Sandy - David Rohde - The Atlantic

It's always such an incredibly shocking revelation to liberals that being poor sucks. God knows why.

 

[Cecilie1200]

You babble a lot, and for the life of me, I can't see a single REAL thing you said.

"People have to be able to afford the things they make." Really? Go tell that to the folks who build yachts. How many of the people working to make Rolls-Royces actually drive one, do you think? Where do you dimwits GET this mindless, parroted drivel, anyway?

Every single cent of Mitt Romney's wealth was made legally, aka "legitimately", and I defy you to prove otherwise. Your personal, ignorant prejudices against venture capitalists do not constitute proof....

One wonders what world you live in? Reality it seems cannot change the mind of a blind partisan manged by wingnut agitprop, but for those who still can think on their own, please see these two links.

Mitt, Tagg, And The Romney Family

The Philosopher's Stone: THE MYTH OF THE SELF-MADE MAN


or my piece here: http://www.usmessageboard.com/economy/50564-libertarianism-in-a-nutshell-ii.html


"Many conservatives and libertarians defend the current levels of income inequality on the basis of merit. They claim the rich got rich because they worked harder, longer or smarter than the rest. However, researchers have conducted a vast number of empirical studies on what factors contribute to success, and in what proportion. A classic example of one of these studies is the 1972 book Inequality, by Christopher Jencks. (1) And these studies show that the meritocrat's position is not just arguably wrong, but clearly wrong." The rich get rich because of their merit.

.

Do us all a favor and hold your breath waiting for me to read your leftist propaganda, let alone take it to heart.

 

[Cecilie1200]

I have never understood why it is necessary for one person to make 10 orders of magnitude more money than any other given person. I read recently of a Catholic Wall Streeter that said, in front of the whole church, that he had to tolerate the discrepancy in wealth so that the system works. No, I'm not an economist.

You really didn't have to tell us that you're not an economist. That was obvious the moment you asked, "Why is it necessary . . ."

Try taking an economics class and learning how to ask relevant questions, and then get back to us.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Yes, that was the whole point of my tirade. That MY people should go to the head of the line. <by the way, that was sarcastic> Go out and spend some time in the world and see how things are really working today. A college degree doesn't guarantee you ANYTHING but a degree. Many, many working people are underpaid or underemployed and they are not lazy or stupid. In fact, only a small minority of the poor are drug addicts as you seem to think and I don't think many of them are the "working" poor.

And yes, I think my friend is OWED a decent living. I think the lowest paid worker in the richest country in the world should make enough to live on without having to resort to moving back in with mom when she's in her 50's.

And who do you believe are those who should pay off Sheila's list of the OWED?

Gotta tell ya there sweet lumps. No one owes anyone anything.
I spend time in the world every day. I am IN the world..See, I thought it beneath dignity to look for a handout. Aside from some continuing education classes and a few courses I took at various community colleges, I have no formal education. I am of the school of hard knocks. It's the best school known to human kind. Ya know why? Because this is where one gets their daily dose of reality. This is the school where you don't get to wait until dismissal time to get your ass kicked.
Instead of having you complain about how rotten everything is and come up with your excuse du jour, perhaps your son and niece should be the ones "getting out in the world"...
So please, don't whine to me. I don't want to hear it.

Everybody owes somebody something. Employers owe their employees a decent salary. Employees owe their employers a decent work ethic. Parents owe their children a decent upbringing. Children owe their parents help in the end. Neighbors owe it to their neighbors to keep their yards trash free and mowed and upkept. teachers owe their students and education. Students owe their teachers their attention and their best energies to learn from them. YOU owe poor people an apology.

You thought it beneath dignity to look for a handout but you think my friend with torrettes should give up her dignity and get a hand out? Instead of lauding her for her contributions and for working even though she's been poor, you're all over her saying she should "sue" she should be getting government assistance" etc. Do you even know what you are saying?

I don't give a crap what you want to hear. I would like you to SEE what's happening in our country. We no longer live in a country where the average person can work their way up the ladder, the rungs are missing. We no longer live in a world where teenagers can get an after school job, those have been taken by the immigrants both legal and illegal. We no longer live in a world where minimum wage can put a roof over your head. In 1968 minimum wage had the highest spending power in history and the top tax rate was 70%. Then laws were changed. Now minimum wage has the lowest spending power in history and corporations can borrow from their retirement funds. leaving no money to pay those workers who've spent their lives working for those companies and contributed their wages to that retirement. Companies like United Airlines have completely closed their retirement funds and given them over to the feds. That's right, our tax dollars are now paying retirement for people who put their time in at the company, took pay cuts etc, to GET that retirement.

I'll bet you don't think United owes that money to those people who worked all those years for them do you? No, you think WE owe them that money. Now they've set a precedent, watch all the other corporations follow suit and we will have an even larger amount of our money going to "entitlements". In this case, CORPORATE WELFARE.

BTW, my niece and my son are out in the world. My niece is going to pharmacology school, paid for by Bartel's. My son hasn't had any such luck. He volunteers his time at the church, at the theater, privately tutoring poor people in how to use the computer, etc. He may not have a paying job, but that doesn't mean he sits on his butt doing nothing as you think all poor people do....

When is the last time YOU gave of yourself without the expectation of getting anything back? IOW, when is the last time you didn't think anyone owed you for your time and attention? When is the last time you volunteered???

Here's some reality for you. I have a friend in construction. Do you know what he was paid straight out of high school more than 30 years ago? $15.00 an hour. Do you know how much he's making in construction now? $15.00 an hour and that's when he can find someone to hire him They don't want him because they think he's too old. I guess he's just another one of those lazy poor people that spend all their time watching tv and taking drugs according to you....

Oy vay..."Everybody owes somebody something.".....Who told you THAT?
Employers do not "owe"..They compensate the employee at an agreed rate of pay for performance of assigned tasks.
"Parents owe their children a decent upbringing. Children owe their parents help in the end. Neighbors owe it to their neighbors to keep their yards trash free and mowed and upkept. teachers owe their students and education. Students owe their teachers their attention and their best energies to learn from them."....Jesus Christ, how about taking this WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY out of context. I think you feel you are entitled to an awful lot. Your misuse of the word "owe" is stellar.
i never stated not implied that your friend with tourettes should quit work and look for handouts. Nor did I imply that. I stated very clearly that she is the type of person that social safety nets are designed for....For fucks sake READ...Stop emoting.
Not able to work their way up "the ladder"? What ladder?
If you mean by moving up in income potential, well you are wrong. Everyday there are millions of success stories about people who have applied themselves and improved their situation. What hackery you spew. Maybe you have a black cloud over your head, but that is YOUR problem.
Oh on the immigrant issue..Look in the mirror..It is your side of the political aisle that insists upon letting anyone and everyone come to our country. SO don't bitch about immigrants taking jobs from teenagers. In fact, today's teens are less likely to work because their parents dote on them and give them anything they want. A summertime part time job is no path to a career anyway. What the hell are you talking about.
A word on pension funds. Companies have ALWAYS invested pension fund money. That applies to both public and private sector funds. DO you really believe the money should just SIT THERE? You are being unsophisticated here.
On taxes....Umm I suppose you are under the assumption it was a republican idea to reduce tax rates?...WRONNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNG.....Go to youtube and search JFK lowers taxes. Listen to the speech.
I'd like to know how it is that lower tax rates have a thing to do with the purchasing power of low wage workers. BTW, minimum wage is not intended to be subsistence. It is a START...
On United's pension.The company did not "close" their pension United was merged with Continental Airlines. United was a weaker company and in fact would have gone under and maybe out of business had CA not come along. The same thing occurred when US Airways, on the verge of bankruptcy was essentially bought our by America West. One of the conditions was AW would not merge union contracts and since AW had no pension( 401k) the US pensions would not be honored. Anyway, the federal government had no business passing laws that forced taxpayers to support private or for that matter, public sector pensions.
And no...Pensions are contracts. As long as the company is in business or solvent, the contract stands. When the company goes out of business ,or files one of the one the various bankruptcy chapters, all bets are off. All contracts are null and void. That may seem harsh, but the CURRENT creditors must be paid.
In the case of one company purchasing another, it is up to the new owners which of the contracts the previous owners signed, the wish to honor.
Your son in the absence of a full time job is using his time to help others. That is good.
What are you complaining about? No one said ALL poor people sit on their asses and do nothing or have self destructive behavior. The reality is, most do.
Back to your son...What goes around comes around. Oh, just because he does not have a lot of money, does not mean he's poor.
You post some name "Bartel's" as though I am supposed to know what that is.
As matter of fact I do stuff for people because that is what I wish to do. I do not do things with the expectation of pay back. That is NOT what it's about. What the hell does this have to do with anything?
Your friend was making $15/hr 30 years ago? Hmm. I call bullshit. Unless he was a skilled craftsman and quite possibly a member of a labor union, he was NOT making that kind of money...
Now, if he is not making a dime more than that per hour NOW, then he is probably helper grade. Nothing wrong with that. Many guys do quite well as helpers. If they are reliable and willing to learn as they go, they can parlay that into more $$.
How do you know it is your friend's age that is holding him back?. Perhaps his skills are not what are needed? Or he is looking in the wrong places?
Did he ever think about starting his own handy-man service instead of looking for a "job"?
It doesn't take much. All he needs is a vehicle to carry stuff, some tools, a clean cut appearance and the ability to speak to people.
I think you can stop whining now.

 

[logical4u]

http://www.usmessageboard.com/economy/258340-the-price-of-inequality-2.html

'The Hideous Inequality Exposed by Hurricane Sandy'

"Divides between the rich and the poor are nothing new in New York, but the storm brought them vividly to the surface. There were residents like me who could invest all of their time and energy into protecting their families. And there were New Yorkers who could not....Those with a car could flee. Those with wealth could move into a hotel. Those with steady jobs could decline to come into work. But the city's cooks, doormen, maintenance men, taxi drivers and maids left their loved ones at home."

The Hideous Inequality Exposed by Hurricane Sandy - David Rohde - The Atlantic

Yeah, NYC, the center of liberal policies, just as vulnerable to disaster as the rest of us. Sorry, there are terrible things there, and those that you believed "cared" have just given you a very hard lesson. Will you learn from it?